Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Tel Aviv/archive2

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Remaining issues:

• Citation format is lacking: many publication names are not italicized; some authors' names are not last name, first name; some cites have no retrieval date
  • I think I have addressed these now. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

• These are much improved. A few instances of unnecessary italics have slipped through the cracks, though:

• Jewish Agency
• Ynetnews.com
• Tel Aviv-Yafo Municipality
• Fotw.net
  • Again, I think these have been addressed. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I did not look at the sourcing for the entire article, but the sourcing for some of the more exceptional claims does not appear to meet WP:V/WP:RS:

• "is the oldest port in the world" - this hefty claim needs a really hefty citation. It currently has none.

• This is not a sufficient source; it states Jaffa "is claimed to be the oldest port" (emphasis mine). Maralia (talk) 15:22, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

• Perhaps you could address this as you find acceptable. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
• I remain really uncomfortable with this sentence. Even the article on Jaffa asserts only that it is 'one of the most ancient port cities in the world'. Anything more really can't be asserted without solid scholarly sources.

• "Tel Aviv has the world's largest collection of such buildings" - the citation for this claim is an Israeli travel site

• The citation added for this looks okay, but the link is broken. Maralia (talk) 15:22, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

• This exact sentence was removed by another editor, but the assertion "Tel Aviv was designated a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 2003 as the city with the largest number of Bauhaus buildings in the world" remains in the lead. It is cited to a BBC news article that does not really support either the UNESCO designation nor the 'most Bauhaus' assertion. You can cite UNESCO directly here to support the World Heritage designation, but I'm not able to find any source to support 'most Bauhaus'.
• OK I think I have addressed this once and for all. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

• "Israel has the highest number of museums per capita of any country, three of the largest of which are in Tel Aviv" - this is cited to two an Israeli travel site and the Israeli consulate

Done--Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

• You've added a citation, but it's another Israeli source. Maralia (talk) 15:22, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

• This remains an issue: a worldwide claim, supported only by Israeli sources.
• Is this ok now? Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

This is a good article, but it needs some work to get to FA. Maralia (talk) 05:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

You did a great job of addressing many of my concerns quickly. I've left comments above about issues that remain. I am particularly concerned about the sourcing; the exceptional worldwide claims (oldest in world, largest collection in world, highest number in world) need rock solid, non-COI sourcing. Maralia (talk) 15:22, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

This is looking much better - only a handful of issues left now. Maralia (talk) 22:24, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Hope that solves those issues. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Ive actually now found an international citation for the Bauhaus. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 20:11, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Oppose. Sorry but this article still suffers from some POV issues and a tenancy to travel hype. Some examples:

1. "Tel Aviv is recognized as a strong candidate global city". Is the body making this "recognition" so significant it merits mention in the lead? Unless one follows the hyperlink the statement makes little sense anyway.

Is this ok now. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

1. "Tel Aviv is known as "the city that never sleeps"" Is it? "Known as" without qualification suggests a fairly universal recognition as such, one article from the "Jerusalem Post" suggests no more than the JP once called it such.

I dont know how to address this. New York has this in its lead and there is no problem with it being there as an FA. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

1. "believed to be the oldest port in the world" - believed by whom?

See above. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

1. “White City” - the source seems to suggest that the White City was an area of "north Tel Aviv" not a term for the whole city.

Done. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

1. Is there nothing but positive spin worth including in the lead? No mention of terrorism, war, disputes, or the social problems cities tend to have?

Shouldnt this cover more specific things to TA - if I do mention terrorism, perhaps you could prepare a sentence to put in. Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I've not gone beyond the lead, but I suspect there's a lot more to fix before this reaches FA.--Doc^g 23:13, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Adressed Flymeoutofhere (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

• No. I don't think you have addressed them. The "global city" candidature still seems irrelevant or under-explained. You don't have evidence to support the claim it is well-known as the "city that never sleeps" (NY is a different ballgame). "belived to be" is weasel wording. It is no longer clear what "white city" refers to. And I'm afraid scanning down the article, although it is fairly well-written and sourced, I have not a lot of confidence in its objectivity. The instances I cited were simply examples from the lead, I probably could pull out more. Most concerning is that the history section seems to demonstrate a clear Israeli POV. Arab 'mobs', mention of atrocities against Jews, but a seeming glossing over of Arab experiences. I suggest that this article needs to get quite a lot of input from non-Israeli editors (and I personally don't have time right now). Why not try peer review?--Doc^g 12:08, 15 February 2008 (UTC)