Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Africa

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[edit] Portal:Africa

I've been working on this portal for about three months and submitted it for peer review last month. I think it meets all of the featured portal criteria and am thus nominating it for consideration. Any suggestions for improvement would be most welcome. — Black Falcon (Talk) 19:48, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Okay, a few questions/suggestions. How does /Featured article rotate? Is it the same featured article 12 times a year, once a month? I'd also suggest a lighter color for the headers, as the black seems to overshadow the text - but this is just personal preference, really. Finally, would it be worth it to merge the /Suportals and /Wikiprojects pages? Since there is a good amount of overlap, two sections, as opposed to one, seems sort of wasteful. On my screen at least, /Things you can do and /Wikiprojects are just about even with each other, but /Subportals leaves a good amount of tanspace under /Wikiprojects that doesn't need to be there. Finally, /Countries of Africa also has a large amount of whitespace. How could it be rearranged to minimize this? Picaroon (t) 20:58, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
    • The /Featured article box is set on a daily rotation. So, yes, each article appears 12 times a year, on the same day each month. However, such a system can accommodate only 31 articles and I've been able to identify 31 Africa-related FAs (see here for the list). So, as soon as another Africa-related article is featured, I would have needed to change the rotation system to either (1) a weekly rotation that accommodates 52 articles, or (2) a random rotation that changes every time the page is refreshed. I might as well change it now. Which rotation would you suggest?
      • Update: The "featured article" and "featured picture" boxes are now set on a randomised rotation (diff). Black Falcon (Talk) 00:32, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
    • I have changed the header colour from black to dark khaki and also lightened the portal's background colour. Is that better?
    • I will tinker with the layout over the next hour and post more detailed comments then. Thanks for your comments, Black Falcon (Talk) 22:36, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
      • I have edited the various "featured picture" pages (see contribs) to standardise their length. I have also started doing likewise for some of the longer "featured article" page. The /Subportals and /Wikiprojects boxes should now be more even. Do you still think it's worth merging them, considering the fact that doing so will generate extra whitespace?
      • I'll keep working on /Countries of Africa. A horizontal format might reduce whitespace ... my worry is that it would look cluttered. Still, I'll test a horizontal format. Alternately, I could forgo the idea of dividing by regions and simply list the countries alphabetically (as at Portal:Latin America/Countries of Latin America). — Black Falcon (Talk) 23:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
        • I think that a horizontal format (which would minimize whitespace) results in too much clutter: see these two versions. Both are incomplete, but already cluttered. I can try to implement the model of Portal:Latin America (a featured portal), but that requires leaving out the map and forgoing grouping of countries by region. Would something like that be preferable to the current version? Black Falcon (Talk) 02:05, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Looks good, so I support the nomination. The only other issue I have is that the featured picture, at 200px is a bit small. I'd prefer 250px - 300px, but again, this is just my preference. Picaroon (t) 23:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Comments: Overall it is good. But, this is a portal on an entire continent. So I would expect the page to be a bit more enriched to be a featured (one of the best) portal:
    • We may consider having a separate section for Selected biography and/or Selected country to help feature more aricles on the page at the same time.
    • header-color (khaki) should be a bit more darker to increase contrast with header font color (white). Arman Aziz 23:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
      • That, or the header font could be made darker. Picaroon (t) 23:55, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
        • I have changed the header font to black, which increase contrast substantially. Black Falcon (Talk) 01:56, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
      • Regarding a biography and/or country topic box: there are only 6 Africa-related featured biographies and 6 FAs about countries. Are you suggesting presenting those separately from the other 19 Africa-related FAs or introducing topics boxes for non-featured articles? Black Falcon (Talk) 02:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
        • Yes I am suggesting to put these featured articles in separate boxes. That would serve two purposes. From reader's perspective, it would mean more information on Africa from the portal page without going into archives. For editors, it would encourage them to improve other country and biography articles to add them to the portal. One of the purpose of portal is to encourage editors to develop more articles on the topic. For countries, however, we can consider having even non-featured articles on portal since countries are the primary building blocks of a continent.
        • The black font color has increased the contrast. I have also changed the border color to black. Does it look better?
        • Just now I discovered that the portal is showing the same picture in selected article section as well as selected picture section at the same time. This gives a poor impression about the richness of the portal. I know this has happened because of random rotation. But, preferably there should be a coded way to avoid this, or we can consider eliminating either the article or the picture from the rotation. Arman Aziz 01:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
          • Yes, I think it looks better with black borders. I will work on modifying the portal's content, design, and layout to incorporate your suggestions. Thanks, Black Falcon (Talk) 21:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
            • I replaced the two instances where an FA page used an image that is also a featured picture. Black Falcon (Talk) 03:51, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Randomized rotation for the FAs is much better than the static one. However, the khaki color/theme gives the feeling that it is about a safari expedition. A black color would be confusing as it is used extensively at Portal:Military history of Africa. Talking about rich content, could we please link the African military history portal from there? Overall, i support. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 15:14, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
    • Thank you. I will tinker with the colours some more to see if I can find something better; is there any particular colour you think would work well? Also, the African military history portal is linked from the /Subportals box. Black Falcon (Talk) 21:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Object with regard to the tab system: Countries is a redlink, and please don't use a tab to take the viewer to another portal (as you do with Military history). Otherwise, fairly decent.--cj | talk 03:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
    • I've removed the redlink. With regards to the tab, what's wrong with it? It's the same topic, the military history one is just more focused. I think a tab is a good way to link to it and make it more prominent than the other subportals of this. Picaroon (t) 04:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
      • The tab system is used on portals to navigate within a portal. You're throwing the reader off by sending them to another portal with markedly different (and, just by-the-by, unattractive) formatting with no obvious way to navigate back to the portal they intended to read. Military history is a subportal. There seems no reason to maintain the tab system since you've removed Countries.--cj | talk 05:12, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
        • I was absent for the past week, which is why the "/Countries" tab remained a redlink. Following Arman Aziz's suggestion, I intend to use that tab to house a "Selected country" box (along with the flags box and a map). I have also replaced the link to the African military history portal with a "Projects" tab. It will take me some time to complete the two new tabs (and to make a few other updates), but I expect to finish today or tomorrow. Perhaps you could take a second look after I've finished (I'll leave a note here when I have). Black Falcon (Talk) 21:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
          • Thanks for getting it up to scratch. Joe raised, and you've fixed, the few remaining concerns I had, so I'm happy to support now.--cj | talk 06:52, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment the Countries tab is full of redlinks - the map, and quite a few next to it. Any way of fixing this? ~ Riana ⁂ 12:10, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
    • I created the tab yesterday but wasn't able to complete it. I'll finish it sometime today. Black Falcon (Talk) 15:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose I'm sorry, but I have to oppose this despite the fact that I like the tabbing system, which I regard this as a "ground-breaking" layout in portals. Selected countries are under construction. You should nominate the portal when it's complete. OhanaUnitedTalk page 20:31, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
    • The "Selected country" box (and, by extension, the "Countries" tab) has been completed. Please see Portal talk:Africa/Countries/Selected country. The suggestion for a "Selected country" box was made during the course of this nomination, so that's why it was incomplete. At first I thought it would be something I could complete in 2-3 hours, but the page for each country ended up taking about 10-20 minutes, primarily to ensure a standard length so that the "Selected country" and "Map" boxes could be of equal size. – Black Falcon (Talk) 03:04, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
      • Are you planning to use "Random portal component"? I don't see the point of making 53 selected countries articles but always displaying the same one (currently Congo). Also, making all 53 doesn't justifying the term "selected", eh? Same issue goes to selected pictures and articles. You need to get random portal component working. Another suggestion from me is to create selected biographies of African people. A lot of work needs to be done before I'll support this nomination. OhanaUnitedTalk page 04:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
        • All three (FA, FP, and selected country) currently do use Template:Random portal component ... does it not work for you? If not, does it work if you click the "Purge server cache" link at the bottom right cornerof the page?
        • As far as the choice of "Selected country" as the box title, I suppose I meant it as "the country article that is selected/displayed (randomly) at this moment". I can't think of an alternate title right now and, unfortunately, none of the other geography-related featured portals really have a "subdivisions" box whose title I could emulate. Portal:European Union has a "Selected city" box and Portal:Texas has a "Showcase city" box, but neither case is really comparable since neither includes the full population of cities in the EU and Texas, respectively. I'll try to come up with some alternate names by tomorrow.
        • I think a biographies box should be fairly simple to create and populate. Would you suggest that I limit it to featured biographies only (following the 'featured' content theme thus far) or should it showcase GA-class and A-class (and perhaps even B-class?) articles as well? Thanks, Black Falcon (Talk) 05:00, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
          • Ah, didn't realize the purge button is on the bottom right corner. As for biographies, just pick 5 to 10 and that should be enough. OhanaUnitedTalk page 05:17, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
            • Done! I've also moved the purge button to a more prominent place – the top right corner of the page. If you think the new location detracts from the portal's appearance, please let me know and I'll revert it; if not, I'll do the same for Portal:Africa/Countries and Portal:Africa/Projects. Black Falcon (Talk) 06:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
              • That was really fast! The purge location is trival, but I like the old way better (at the bottom right corner) because it looks like it's incoporated into the portal. I'll now support this nomination. OhanaUnitedTalk page 06:36, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
                • The summary reports located on the archive talk pages (here, here, here, and here) can be time-consuming to create and regularly update, but they make maintenance of the portal much easier (and faster) in the longer term. Anyway, thanks for all your comments and suggestions. P.S., I moved the purge button back to its original location. Cheers, Black Falcon (Talk) 06:44, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: This portal has come a long way after the Nomination! By the way, dear Falcon, viewed form IE, the selected country box and the map don't come side by side - they come one after another, which needs to be fixed. Perhaps reducing the image size of the map will do the trick. I attempted to do it myself, but the "edit" link with the map took me to a blank page! Arman (Talk) 06:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
    • That's strange. I use IE as well but haven't encountered that problem; I even tested it with 5 different screen resolutions. I fixed the "edit" link, so it will now lead you to the proper target. Would you mind trying it now (I'd do it myself except for the fact that I can't replicate the problem and thus can't know what change fixes it)? Does changing the image size fix the issue? If not, what about removing the "center" parameter? If that doesn't work either, how about changing the width given to each box at Portal:Africa/Countries, with the relevant lines being <div style="float:left; width:60%;"> for "Selected country" (for which I'm trying to think of a better name) and <div style="float:right; width:39%;"> for "Map"? Black Falcon (Talk) 07:01, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
      • I have fixed the few remaining problems from my browser. I now support this featured portal candidate. One minor thing for Falcon, you may now consider taking out the country articles from the featured article roster. By the way, "Selected country" title seems alright to me. Arman (Talk) 00:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
        • Do you think that's necessary? After all, the "Selected country" and "Featured article" boxes serve substantially different purposes. Moreover, the probability that someone will encounter the same article during a single visit to the portal is quite low. There is an 18% chance (6/33) that "Featured article" will display a country article. If "Featured article" displays a country article, there is a 1.9% chance (1/53) that "Selected country" will display the same article. Thus, there is only a 0.3% chance (6/1749) that "Featured article" and "Selected country" will repeat each other. – Black Falcon (Talk) 19:36, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Object on a few minor points:
    • All selected articles/bios/countries should be linked, instead of simply bolded. Including Africa in the intro.
      • The articles are all linked via a "Read more..." link at the end of the text (or, in the case of the introduction, the "More about Africa..." link). Are they not prominent enough? – Black Falcon (Talk) 21:24, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
        • See the main page featured articles, please. Bolded linked articles and a read more link. Joe I 03:09, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
    • News section needs an archive.
    • The topics template inside the box gives two problems: double headings and text running outside the lines(firefox 1024x768). I don't have a problem with the template as long as these can be fixed.
      • The double headings issue has been resolved. Since Template:Africa topics is used in the mainspace, I decided to create Portal:Africa/Topics and modify it as necessary; is the text issue still there? – Black Falcon (Talk) 22:07, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
        • Yes, the text is still over running the lines. Joe I 03:09, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
          • How about now? (I did away with the navbox.) If it still runs over, could you please say whether it's all of the lines or just the "Sports" row? Black Falcon (Talk) 04:23, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
            • Looks good. Joe I 05:03, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
    • Sister projects sounds to me like wikipedia projects, heading should be changed to related/associated wikimedia or the like.
      • Y Done. All instances of the phrase "Sister projects" have been replaced with "Associated Wikimedia". – Black Falcon (Talk) 21:24, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
    • With the randomized content a purge page link should be included below the intro.
    • Subportals should be included on the main page. I would like it changed to related portals and include other continents, but thats no biggie.
      • Given that there are currently ca. 30 related portals (including other continents and portals like Portal:Colonialism), I'm thinking of creating a "Related portals" box that is separate from the "Subportals" box, and displaying them next to each other on the main page (either just above or just below the "Topics" box). What do you think of the idea? If 30+ portal links is too much and it's better to stay with just the subportals, I could change the format from "3.5 rows of 4" to "2 rows of 7" and move it to the main page that way. Black Falcon (Talk) 07:09, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
        • I don't mind being comprehensive with related portals, tho 30 sounds like alot, try it before you cut any. Look at Portal:Religion(I think it has the most related). With the difference between related and sub (30:14), the boxes wouldn't fit well together. But as long as you can fit some sort of related portals box on the main page, it'll be ok. Joe I 07:36, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
          • Actually, I miscommunicated. The 14 subportals are included in the figure of ca. 30, so the boxes would be of approximately equal size. I'll go ahead and experiment with the various possibilities. – Black Falcon (Talk) 14:48, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
            • Done (I think). Please see Portal:Africa/Related portals, which is currently transcluded on the main page. The removal of the Subportals box has left a small gap at Portal:Africa/Projects, but I'll soon fill that by lengthening the Things you can do box. – Black Falcon (Talk) 21:58, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
              • Looks good, altho it might not hurt to keep subportals on the projects page. Joe I 01:10, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
    • Map on the countries subpage seems like it has no legend till you scroll down. Is there someway to make them more connected?
      • I can think of two options. The first is to add a legend, similar (though not identical) to Image:Africa-regions.png#Summary. However, that will require reducing the image size from 320px to 220px. The second option is to use Image:Africa-regions.png to generate an imagemap, which is essentially a clickable map that displays names when the mouse is hovered over particular areas (for an example, see Template:Africa countries imagemap). – Black Falcon (Talk) 05:26, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
        • Why would the image have to be smaller to accommodate a small legend? That seems like the easiest choice. Clickable maps are neat if you want to go thru that trouble. Or maybe you could try making all boxes 100%, and simply add the map into the full legend. Joe I 06:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
          • The size reduction would be necessary to keep the "Selected country" and "Map" boxes of equal length. Although that would take only a few minutes, creating a clickable map wouldn't take too long either, since I'd just have to specify five polygons using the extreme points of each region; these extreme points are already available in the source code for Template:Africa countries imagemap. Black Falcon (Talk) 07:01, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
            • The base image for Template:Africa countries imagemap and Image:Africa-regions.png are not identical copies, so I can't use the source code from the former for the latter. Thus, and partly because an imagemap can only serve as a legend if a reader hovers his/her mouse over certain portions of the map, I've added a legend. I've restricted it to three rows, so that the map size doesn't have to be reduced all the way to 220px (it's currently 250px); please tell me what you think. – Black Falcon (Talk) 19:35, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
              • Yeah, I can live with that, altho reducing the size does suck. I didn't notice this earlier but the countries and map boxes aren't(weren't) the same size in my view (firefox 1024x768) anyways, and they would only be in the one particular configuration your on. Joe I 20:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
                • I've tested it at 5 different resolutions in IE (800x600, 1024x768, 1280x600, 1280x720, 1280x800), and they are approximately of equal length (the maximum deviation is probably less than 10% of either box' height). I'm not sure why Firefox renders the page differently. Black Falcon (Talk) 21:58, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
                  • Hmm, oh well, looks fine. Joe I 01:10, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
    • Why is the countries tab the only one without an associated wikimedia box?
      • Y Done. It was an oversight on my part that has now been corrected. – Black Falcon (Talk) 21:39, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
    • Each dyk entry should have a {{*mp}} such as the dyk page.
    • Other than that, it is a good portal, and these issues shouldn't be to hard to fix. Joe I 20:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
      • Thank you for the comments. I'll try to resolve these issues as soon as possible. – Black Falcon (Talk) 21:24, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Support Looks good. Joe I 01:13, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment How come this nom hasn't closed yet? It's more than a month since the nom started. OhanaUnitedTalk page 22:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
    • I'd like to see new comments/changes to support/continued opposition from the objectors: User:cj and User:Searchme (aka. Joe). feydey 20:56, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
      • The specific issues raised by cj regarding the tab system have been addressed; I left a note on his/her user talk page a few days ago requesting that s/he take a look at the revised portal and comment again, but it seems that s/he is on indefinite wikibreak (see the note at the top of User:CJ). I am in the process of addressing the issues raised by Joe. – Black Falcon (Talk) 21:19, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
        • I've updated my stance above. I'm still keeping an (irregular) watch over activities here. :)--cj | talk 06:52, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: The portal header picture (one with a cheetah's head and large font "africa") looks childish and unprofessional to me. Comparatively Portal:Asia's header is slightly better and that of Portal:Europe is much better. Am I the only one to think that? Arman (Talk) 11:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC)