Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Seinfeld (season 1)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Scorpion0422 23:06, 26 May 2008 [1].

[edit] Seinfeld (season 1)

Self-nomination. Looked at Lost (season 1) and copied the format from there. The only image has a fair use rationale. Gman124 ^talk 15:48, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Support - I believe that this article is of a high enough standard, though I have corrected a minor grammar error. ISD (talk) 16:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Oppose This is not a list. This is an article with a list. If you want, take it to GAN or FAC. But not here. Noble Story (talk) 03:27, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Its in the exact same format as Lost (season 1) and The Office (U.S. TV series) season 1, which are featured list. -- Coasttocoast (talk) 03:47, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

~~Ok fine, if this doesn't pass or if editors feel this shouldn't be a list i'll take it to GAN or FAC. Gman124 ^talk 04:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)~~

~~I don't think it should be an article, it should stay a list, now. Gman124 ^talk 20:10, 7 May 2008 (UTC)~~

Current consensus is that season pages are designated as lists. Therefore, this is in the correct place. I should be able to review the article this evening, also. Mastrchf (^t/_c) 15:00, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Comment Not all season pages are lists, see Smallville (season 1) for an example of a featured article. In this page, I see that the prose part is longer than the table(list), so it can be argued whether this is an article/a list.--Crzy cheetah 21:00, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm still going with having this an article, not a list, so I'll oppose (but not just for that reason). Noble Story (talk) 14:13, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Oppose The plot summaries should be 3-4 times bigger than they are right now. See the Simpsons' list, where the entire episode is described. indopug (talk) 14:47, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
- Y Done fixed summaries Gman124 ^talk 15:24, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

~~I'll list the rest tomorrow, now I sleep. But "Season one of Seinfeld, an American television series created by Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David." is not a sentence.~~ indopug (talk) 20:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Done --Gman124 ^talk 13:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 21:26, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Comments

I'll start by saying that for me it belongs at FLC, rather than FAC. There's always an exception to every rule, and Smallville season 1 is it. Everything here is listable, although the majority happens to be presented in prose form.
Having said that, I think more could be given regarding the production crew, including exec producers, producers, directors, show runners, etc. Look at the Lost and Degrassi season pages for more ideas.
Please use {{Episode list}} to present the table of episodes.Y Done
- Question. Is it required to use this template? I would like to know, please. I'll change it if you insist--Gman124 ^talk 04:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
  - As mentioned on my talk page, all other episodic FLs use the template. Given that the other Seinfeld FLC, Seinfeld (season 3) uses it (I haven't looked at any others), it should be for consistency. The seasons' lists can then be transcluded onto List of Seinfeld episodes, similar to how The Simpsons, Lost, and Degrassi: The Next Generation episodes have done. -- Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 05:13, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Per WP:LS#Bold title, do not wikilink the bolded "Seinfeld" in the lead section. Y Done
"The pilot episode met with poor reviews, as a result, NBC passed on the show. However, NBC executive Rick Ludwin believed the series had potential." Both sentences should be referenced, and a sentence shouldn't start with a conjunction.Y Done

**Y Done Fixed the sentence but I believe it is already referenced, see note 3. --Gman124 ^talk 04:23, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

"'He therefore gave Seinfeld a budget..." is a bit clunkyY Done
"The final episode" → "The season finale Y Done
Does Ren-Mar Studios have a wikilink? Where's the reference for this?Y Done
Wikilink Hollywood, and give the US State for non AmericansY Done
Wikilink CBS Studio Center and Studio City, California. Also this sentence is probably more relevant for the other season pages, not this one.
- Y Done removed the sentence. --Gman124 ^talk 04:23, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
"The show features a host of Jerry's friends and acquaintances,". Are the characters Jerry's friends, or the actors?
- Y Done rewrote the line. --Gman124 ^talk 15:47, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
"Claire was billed as one of the stars of the show, but was dropped." stops abruptly. Dropped by the producers, network?Y Done
What is a sliding entrance?
- It's when the character Kramer comes through the door sliding or really quickly.--Gman124 ^talk 04:23, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
  - Say that then. The casual reader doesn't know that -- Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 05:13, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
"When everyone laughed,..." Cast and crew, or studio audience? If the latter, there is no previous mention that the show was filmed in front of an audience.
- Question. are we supposed to mention if a show is filmed in front of studio audience? --Gman124 ^talk 04:23, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
  - Why not? It's part of the production information -- Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 05:13, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
"The series was set" The series still exists, so "The series is set" is correct. Check the rest of the article for other past/present tense changesY Done
"go to the laundry" For me, laundry refers to the clothes, and laundromat would be betterY Done
The other episode summaries need copy editing for phrases such as "the former's door", "stake out", stuff in brackets etc
In the DVD table, "Set Details", "Special Features", and "Release Dates" are all headings, and as such should follow the MOS at WP:HEAD, becoming "Set details", "Special features" and "Release dates". Also, where are the references for release dates?Y Done
Per WP:PLOT, the plots are self reference-able, and don't actually need to be cited.Y Done

A lot of changes need to be made before I'm ready to support, so for now I'm going to oppose. -- Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 03:14, 18 May 2008 (UTC) More ~~I've stricken my oppose as it's now nearly there. Here's some extra ones I found though~~

Please explain what NBC is for non American readers (I would use "a U.S. broadcast television network"Y Done
Still confused about the "When everyone laughed," bit. Does it mean cast and crew, or studio audience?Y Done
Explain what "a rating of 13.9/26." meansY Done
Wikilink to midseason replacement Y Done
"1990-91" should be n-dashed, not hyphenedY Done
"Soon after the "Stock Tip" episode aired" → "Soon after "Stock Tip" aired"Y Done
The Stake Out needs quotes, per MOS:TITLE Y Done
Who is Brandon Tartikoff?Y Done
- he was hired to direct comedy programming. --Gman124 ^talk 00:29, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
"despite this, NBC was held off broadcasting the first four episodes" perhaps remove the "was", and surely it's not the first four, because that would include the pilot?Y Done
- I meant that NBC held off production for the last four episodes, because NBC passedon the show after the pilot, then gave 4 more episode order, which they started airing almost 11 months after the pilot. --Gman124 ^talk 00:24, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

-- Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 21:26, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

My apologies, but a closer look at season 3 showed it didn't in fact use {{episode list}}. It, and this one really, really should for transclusion. -- Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 21:56, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

When using the episode template, it doesn't give enough freedom to align the columns because it just aligns it by itself. and I don't really think it's really that necessary. --Gman124 ^talk 00:24, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

What do you mean by align? Whether the text is to the right or centered, or the order of the columns? -- Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 00:38, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I mean when if I want the ep# column to be at the end like it's now, it doesn't let us do that, it makes us put it in the first column, then next column is title and so on.--Gman124 ^talk 00:47, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I answered your comments, except for using the episode template, I just don't think it really matters that much, or see the point in having that. --Gman124 ^talk 19:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
- All other Featured episode lists use {{episode list}} and contributors to those lists haven't expressed a problem with its ordering. Also remember that they fall under Wikipedia:WikiProject Television, which asks for it be used. I would say that the silent consensus at other FL's, plus the TV Project's use of it trumps personal preference. However, if you insist the order be changed, create {{episode list/Seinfeld}} (which will have to be created for transclusion anyway), and arrange the order as you see fit. -- Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 00:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
  - Not all season pages use the episode template, for example see Smallville (season 1), also I'm working on the alternative episode list on my sandbox. Gman124 ^talk 01:53, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
    - Smallville (season 1) is a WP:FA, not a WP:FL, and it could easily be changed with no problems -- Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 05:16, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
    - Y Done added the episode list. --Gman124 ^talk 02:32, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
      - Cool, though I still don't see why you think it's important for the episode numbers to be at the end.. oh well. -- Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 05:16, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Still oppose until Tony's prose concerns are addressed. Also, please use "season #" instead of "#" (if that is indeed what it's supposed to be) and "series #" instead of "overall total". Why is ref 15 for production code on a new line? Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 07:36, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

fixed the table, and I rewrote some of the stuff. --Gman124 ^talk 17:06, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Oppose until fixed—Cr 1: needs copy-editing throughout.

Can we expunge almost all instances of "~~in order~~ to"? Especially, here with another occurrence of "order" soon after.Y Done
More on repetition: "season" times three; "one" then "2".
- Y Done removed the repetition of season --Gman124 ^talk 19:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Errant comma or two. Noun plus -ing is clumsy.Y Done
MOS breaches of several types. Cr 5Y Done

Question. I don't get this comment. --Gman<span style="color:orange">124 ^talk 19:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Not impressed with the utility of the lower table. Why a table? TONY (talk) 16:50, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

** Question. so you want the DVD release info in a paragraph or something? --Gman124 ^talk 19:53, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

- Y Doneremoved the table. --Gman124 ^talk 19:45, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Redundant words ("made" is just one example).Y Done

Yeah remove that table. This article is about the first season, not a detailed showcase of the DVD's features. The special features gives a feeling of advertising. (It has these features, go BUY the disc!) indopug (talk) 17:11, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Very busy at moment; MOS—I see a dot after a caption that is not a real sentence; I see title case used in a title.Y Done
I see prose that needs copy-editing in the grey areas, such as " Jerry does not like Joel that much" (rather informal). And much more.Y Done TONY (talk) 09:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
" "The Robbery" was the only episode not written by Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David, it was written by Matt Goldman.[11] The pilot was directed by Art Wolff, the rest of the episodes was directed by Tom Cherones."—These are not grammatical sentences. "worries" should be the less informal "concerns". Plus lots more. Needs fresh input. TONY (talk) 16:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- Y Done rewrote the lines, and summary. Gman124 ^talk 17:06, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Seinfeld (season 1)/archive1

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[edit] Seinfeld (season 1)

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