Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Caribbean drums

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[edit] List of Caribbean drums

Self-nom, I think this is pretty close to comprehensive, and includes drums from all across the Caribbean. There's a lot of confusing terminology - four different drums called boula, for example, and I think this does a good job of clearing that up. Tuf-Kat 21:28, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose. Really nice work which I'm sure is a useful list. Referencing is good and its obviously been extensively researched, but sadly fails WP:WIAFL 1.1 - "The list brings together a group of existing articles related by well-defined entry criteria.". ie. A majority of the drums need articles. Currently there's 20 out of 180. —Moondyne 02:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  • It does link to a group of existing articles, related by well-defined entry criteria. The requirements do not say that each item on the list has to have an independent article. Tuf-Kat 11:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Changing to Support also. I hadn't noticed the criteria had changed - there was previously a requirement that it "... must be composed of a large majority of links to existing articles (blue links)". That is no longer the case and this is a very good list which deserves to be featured. —Moondyne 13:42, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• Excellent work, but I'm going to have to oppose, for the same reason as above. The recent changes to the criteria mean that it's OK to have a list where the individual list members are not significant enough to need their own articles, but I suspect you'd struggle to argue that. --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 10:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  • The individual list members are not significant enough to need their own articles. There's very little to say about each individual drum, with a few exceptions that already have their own articles. Tuf-Kat 11:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
    • I'm not completely convinced - it seems to me that boula at least ought to have an article explaining the four different types of drums and the relationships (if any, beyond name) between them. But I'll take your word for it (as the subject expert) that most of the others are minor variants that don't need their own article. Switching to support. --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 13:25, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
      • I've made an article for boula (music). I'll also point out that a lot of these drums, if they were linked, would redirect to an established article - there's several variants on the conga drum, for example, and articles on drum families like gwo ka have redirects from each kind of drum - plus in a number of genres, the drum used has the same name as the genre itself. So, I think not linking the name of the drum in these circumstances is more useful than linking to a potentially confusing redirect, especially when the target of that redirect is more clearly linked-to in the list description. A goodly number of them, like the Jamaican harp, are generic terms that could probably never be much more than a dicdef. While it's probably theoretically possible for there to be enough verifiable and reliable information out there for an article on the snare drum used in Jamaican marching bands, for example, it's far more obscure a topic than is really necessary here (note that it's theoretically possible for people to document enough characteristics of the drum, but I have doubts that someone actually has in the case of certain drums on this list). Tuf-Kat 19:04, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
• Weak oppose Support. The list certainly has a lot of potential, although I would like a few issues sorted before my support.

• Reference tags should be put right after the punctuation without a space among other references per WP:FN.

• Fixed myself. Michaelas10^{Respect my authoritah} 19:07, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

• List descriptions need periods.
  • They don't need periods because they're not complete sentences. Tuf-Kat
• The lead isn't written under the expected professional standards:

This is a list of drums used in the Caribbean music area, taken here to include the islands of the Caribbean Sea, as well as the musics of Guyana, Suriname, French Guiana, Bahamas serial comma and Bermuda. It only includes drums that are indigenous to the local music area or are a vital and long-standing part of local culture; misused semicolon it does not include drums that are, for example, a part of Western style orchestras, unless said orchestras were to constitute a vital and long-standing part of the local culture, nor does it include trap sets and other common drums, unnecessary comma used in popular music recordings of many genres across the world, unless said common drums were to constitute an especially vital and long-standing part of the local culture. > This sentence is overwhelmingly long and thus might be somewhat confusing, please split it. Drums can be classified and described using a number of criteria, most importantly including the manner in which a sound is produced and the shape of the instrument. The presence of a cloth, fabric or skin head, the number of heads, and the constituent materials are also used to distinguish between different kinds of drums. Similar drums within a culture may be divided based on their manner of use, performance methods and rhythms, intended context, audience or performer, or details of the instruments' manufacture, such as its precise size or the technique used to lace the head onto the body of the drum.

• • Lead fixed. Tuf-Kat
• "See kittle" - Italics?
  • Fixed. Tuf-Kat
• There don't appear to be any notes inside the references section. If there are any, please split them using {{note}}.
  • There are none, and I've changed the header. Tuf-Kat
• While not a strict requirement, it's preferable to include "see also" or "external links" section for further reading. Michaelas10^{Respect my authoritah} 19:05, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
  • I tend to be rather minimal in such things, and I don't know of anything specifically useful to "Caribbean drums" that adds to what's here. Tuf-Kat 18:31, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• Conditional support Good to see the recent requirement change being tested and examined – that's healthy. I wonder if left-alignment of cell-text would look neater than the centred format chosen. The "other names" column is possibly sparse enough for it to be folded into the Description as required. However, the biggest problem is that the source contains templates in Tuf-Kat's user-space. I'm not an expert on wiki-spaces, but surely they should be moved to article-space? Is this a left-over from sandboxing? BTW: I disagree on the "see also" or "external links" comment above. Both of which were mildly discouraged last time I looked. Colin°^Talk 22:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Oops! That was indeed a holdover from experimenting in a user sandbox. I can't believe I didn't notice that in the months this list has been in the article space. Anyway, I've moved the templates to the template namespace.
  • I'd rather not fold the other names column into the description. Though probably feasible, there's a lot of instances here with a few names being used in multiple ways, so I think separating them out makes it less confusing.
  • After some experimenting, I decided to make the descriptions column left-aligned, but leave the others centered. Tuf-Kat 19:14, 25 March 2007 (UTC)