Wikipedia:Featured article review/War elephant/archive1

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] War elephant

Article is no longer a featured article

[edit] Review commentary

Notification placed at Template:WPMILHIST Announcements. Marskell 15:33, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

This seems to be an ancient FA:

  • Lead section is inadequate and too short.
  • Poorly sectioned.
  • Poor referencing.
  • It's not sure if war elephants fought against Alexander the Great in the battle of Gaugamela...
  • ...but they certainly fought in the Battle of Ipsus - nothing about it.
  • Shang China may have primitively used elephants for military purposes as early as c.2500BC. but Shang China began to rule in ca. 1600 BC...

Probably more errors, I hope the article will be improved. Gdarin | talk 16:46, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

We should point out the difference between African Forest Elephants (Egypt, Carthage ->the Barcid import also some Indian war elephants -> Suru, last surviving elephant of Hannibal for example) ->Battle of Raphia and Indian Elephants. In crossbow are some images from the cham using elephants and double-bow crossbows. I doubt this animal was used to a great extend by the Shang, they did have no natural ressource of elephants. Is it possible that this should refer to some evidence from southern China during the Shang time (lots of things mixed up)? Wandalstouring 17:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The opening paragraph alone is badly written with poor grammar and erratic punctuation. Why does the history section come to an abrupt end in the 16th century? I don’t know much bout war elephants but I know they were often used in India against the British eg: Arcot 1751, and used for a hundred years after that! Under referenced. No citations. This is only a B-class article and far from the recent standards now required for FA status. Raymond Palmer 19:40, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

If we can work out all questions that need research, I can help with Histoire Militaire des Éléphants, depuis les temps les plus reculés jusqu'à l'introduction des armes à feu; (introduction of mobile artillery was the end of elephant attacks in India, because they were too easy to stop) avec des observations critiques sur quelques-uns des plus célèbres faits d'armes de l'antiquité.;
par le Chevalier P. Armandi, ancien Colonel d'artillerie (it is a 500 page volume in French); 1843 Paris, London, Francfort-S.-M.Wandalstouring 16:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
An article with many problems:
  • Lead section short.
  • No inline citations.
  • See also section too long. Some links should be incorporated in the main prose.
  • Section "Battles" looks like a long list. Prose is recommended.--Yannismarou 18:37, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Needs inline citations LuciferMorgan 23:37, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

List of issues that need sourcing:

  • please add here
    • I checked the article to provide some samples, but I'm not sure doing so will be helpful. The entire article is uncited. I can pick any random section, and find numerous statements which need cites, so I'm confused about the question (and since it's unsigned, I don't know who asked it). If more specific input is needed, I'll help, but the entire article is uncited - there is one inline citation. Sandy 17:21, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Move to FARC - no improvements since nom - where are our MilHist editors? diff since nom. Sandy 17:37, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FARC commentary

Suggested FA criteria concerns LEAD (2a), sectioning (2), referencing and accuracy of information (1c). Marskell 07:49, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Question - There doesn't seem to be anybody working on this, but I think it may be salvageable. Before I start trying to fix it up, how do people feel about the list of notable battles involving war elephants? I can't see an easy way to work all those into the text, so if this is going to be an objection to leaving it as an FA, I'd prefer to work on something else and stick this on my "FA restoration list" to look at later. Yomanganitalk 16:36, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
    • I think that is an appropriate use of a list. It could probably be neatened up a bit, but I don't think it should stop the article from being considered featured, if everything else is fixed. Jay32183 19:32, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Can you check with the MilHist group: they may have guidelines on lists such as this one? Sandy 12:31, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
      • I haven't been able to find enough references to properly cite this article, so the list problem is academic for me. I'll order some books and come back to it sometime if it is demoted, as apart from a bit of tidying, the lack of inline citations seems to be the main sticking point here. Yomanganitalk 10:39, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

FAR tag added to article talk page. Sandy 17:23, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Remove. Zero work being done; no inline citations; insufficient lead; insufficient sectioning. Marskell 08:11, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Remove Lack of inline citations (1. c. violation). LuciferMorgan 15:41, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Remove. Poor elephants, no one cares, no one is working on the article, uncited, poor lead, and questions (above) about accuracy. Sandy 19:25, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Remove - I have a book on order which should cover most of this, but it won't arrive in time for me to work on it in FARC, and I don't like to cite everything from a single source anyway. I'll probably list in WP:1FAPQ for sometime next year unless somebody fixes it up in the meantime. Yomanganitalk 00:23, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Remove Just not good enough.UberCryxic 18:54, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Remove per above.--Peta 05:53, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Remove. Short lead. Listy sections. No citations. A huge "See also" section.--Yannismarou 08:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I know I have a few articles on the use of elephants in warfare in my collection of elephantania. I'll dig them out over the weekend and see if they can help address the issues raised above. -- Arvind 00:05, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I dont usually talk here or know how to talk in this section of wikipedia; but their is alot of evidence for the Shang and their use elephants. Simply look up "Shang Elephants" In Google, and a variety of different reliable sites indicate that Elephants once lived around the Yellow River in c.1000Bc under Shang rule, and their is a shang kings tomb buried along side a pet elephant.