Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Year Zero (album)

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[edit] Year Zero (album)

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previous FAC
previous FAC (00:57, 28 April 2008)

Third time's the charm? Since failing back-to-back FACs, I brought the article to Peer Review and it has since been tweaked here and there since. As far as I can tell, I have addressed all concerns from both previous FACs and the Peer review. So, I welcome any further comments and suggestions. Thanks! Drewcifer (talk) 10:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments

  • Took it out: it was a duplicate citation anyways, so it wasn't really necessary.
Still in the article at current ref 33 Jason Gregory and current ref 35 Jason Gregory
Wow, can't believe I missed that. Rearranged/redid the citations again: no more gigwise. Drewcifer (talk) 04:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Found and added an archived version.
  • It's from Robert Christgau, a much-discussed rock critic. It has not publisher because it's the same as the author (Robert Christgau).
  • Need to watch the all capitals in the references, they probably shouldn't be capitalized.
  • I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean in the titles?
Yes, I did but it looks like you got it. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Otherwise sources look good, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your help as always. Drewcifer (talk) 19:25, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment
    • Reznor also speculated that he would release the next Nine Inch Nails album online in a similar fashion to The Inevitable Rise and Liberation of NiggyTardust!, which he produced - this should explain what that fashion is
    • I realize it could veer into OR if there's no sources clarifying it, but I'd like more of an explanation of what makes this a concept album. The spots where the term "concept album" is used only refer to the lyrics criticizing the US government as a recurring theme (which, though it may be a theme technically speaking, is not itself the kind of thing the term "concept album" is commonly used for). But if I had to guess based on the rest of the article, I'd think the "theme" would be the dystopian futurism. So... I'm not sure what exactly my point is, but there you go...
  • Tuf-Kat (talk) 14:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments

  • In the lead, "Year Zero... Year Zero" → "Year Zero... It"?
  • Rearranged a little bit, but some of the sentences didn't really benefit from swapped Year Zero with it, for one reason or another. Hopefully it's a little more readable now though.
  • For the first three paragraphs, "Year Zero... The album... The album" → "Year Zero... The album... Year Zero"? Lots of "The album... The album" going on, at least in the lead.

Gary King (talk) 15:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment: As i said in the previous FAC, if the Performance tour is merged with the Promotion and release section, the flow would be a lot better and you can avoid redundancy by not having to mention the USBs twice. You can get a bigger album cover too (300 x 300)indopug (talk) 16:53, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Fixed both! Drewcifer (talk) 04:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment: I can't really support or oppose this as it stands now, though I would lean towards oppose. I see the prose and sourcing as a major weaknesses.

  • A number of the paragraphs throughout are stubby and could use fleshing out. (For example, the "Artwork" section.) Also, as another editor pointed out, there are few cases (especially in the lead) where there are repeated phrases and terms.
  • I combined the two short paragraphs in the Artwork section. As for the reptition in the lead, I think I addressed the concerns mentioned above, but if you have any more specific concerns, please let me know.
  • I'm also somewhat concerned about your sources' inherent neutrality (WP:NPOV). 23 of 78 (30%) references in the article are to Reznor, Nine Inch Nails, or an affiliated site. That percentage is worse when you exclude the references only used for chart positions and in the reviews section. You also allow Reznor to be the only speaker used for a good portion of the article. While I agree that those are fine sources, to have so much of the research devoted to them could be problematic. In the "Disputes" section, Reznor's point of view is given exclusively (saying that the music label didn't comment), but surely there were some secondary sources which gave a criticized him or at least provide an alternate perspective? Your passion for NIN comes out in the work, but possibly to the detriment of a neutral point of view.
  • Good points. I've done a bit of work to hopefully address this issue. As it now stands only 8 sources are directly from NIN/Reznor (out of 79 total, which makes it 6.32%). If you're looking at individual in-line citations, then there's 11 from NIN (out of an even 100, which makes it 11%). As far as "Affiliated" sites, the only "Affiliated" sources are UMG (Citation #39) and Internet Archive (#32). I presume you were referring to TheNINHotline, which isn't connected to NIN at all: they're an independent news-site which just happens to focus exclusively on NIN. They've been mentioned as sources of information in numerous other 3rd party reports, so are therefore for considered "reliable".
  • Just did a bunch more work on the pov stuff. The new count is 77 sources, only 6 of which are from NIN. (4.62% for those counting) In-line citation wise, there are 9 in-lines from NIN out of 103 (9.27%). And most of those are direct quotes or super specific facts (like the exact day it was finished being mixed). Does that seem a little more reasonable? Drewcifer (talk) 04:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • I'm not completely sure what you meant here. Who's "them"?

That's a start anyway, I'll take another look at it later. JRP (talk) 17:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Comments
  • I agree with above comments about the neutrality issues with the sources.
  • Please see me comments since (above).
  • Also check out my more recent comments above. Drewcifer (talk) 04:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • This source still (I've seen it in other FACs) concerns me as being non-reliable.
  • Update on the Blabbermouth thing: I just ran across the Strapping Young Lad FAC (which you seem to have participated in already, so I suppose this is old news to you). Bardin did a pretty good job of defending the site, certainly a better job then I could, so please see his arguments. Drewcifer (talk) 06:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • I have no idea what you mean here. Where should an nbsp be where there isn't currently one?
  • In May 2007, Reznor made a post on the official Nine Inch Nails website condemning Universal Music Group — the parent company of the band's record label, Interscope Records — for their pricing and distribution plans for Year Zero. Per MoS, em dashes should not be spaced.
  • Please be consistent with keeping the period either inside or outside the quotation marks. I see several inconsistencies.
  • Ugh, the logical quotation punctuation. The bane of my existence. If there's one WP policy I dispise more then anything, it's that one. But it's fixed anyways! =) All the periods should now come after the end quotation mark. Drewcifer (talk) 23:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
  • The final paragraph of the Music section needs a reference.
  • Prose could use some brushing up. Try getting a new copyeditor.

Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 22:39, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

  • WesleyDodds went through the article and copyedited pretty thoroughly. Please let me know if there's anything else you notice. Drewcifer (talk) 05:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments

  • Again, should halo numbers (in lead) have italics?
  • Sigh, well I feel silly. Fixed.
  • "while touring for With Teeth." - context. What's With Teeth?
  • Fixed.
  • Wouldn't [1] be a derivative of a copyrighted work?
  • Actually, it's derivative of a trademarked work, not a copyrighted one. Good catch, though. I've updated the image page to reflect this.
  • So the entire poster design is trademarked, not copyrighted? giggy (:O) 08:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Yea. Basically, you can't copyright stuff that's basic geometry/text. Hence why a photo like this is also trademarked (just a random example I found from this category). I learned this just recently myself, which is why the NIN image's page didn't reflect that yet. Drewcifer (talk) 08:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I'm aware of those rules, just wasn't sure in this case if that could be considered textonly. But it's cool. giggy (:O) 08:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
  • "— the parent company of the band's record label, Interscope Records —" - spaced em dashes. Oh noes! (WP:DASH)
  • Huh, I thought it was the other way around. Fixed.
  • Reception section is really short...

giggy (:O) 04:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Really? Ok, I'll work on this. Drewcifer (talk) 08:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Expanded the section a bit. Drewcifer (talk) 04:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Support, giggy (:O) 07:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks so much for your help and support. Drewcifer (talk) 08:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments Some issues I've run into while copyediting the article:

  • There's nothing about chart positions, sales, or even the proper release of the album in the Release section.
  • It's now in the renamed "Reception" section.
  • That quote by Reznor in the lead is unnecessary. Might be worth working into the article body.
  • Moved it.
  • The article mentions where the album ranked on Rolling Stone's year-end list, but the magazine's review of the record is not used in the prose.
  • Made a mention of the review in the Reception section.
  • Reznor is a huge gearhead who likes experimenting. Seems like there'd be more sources available about the recording process. Can more information be included in the Recording section? WesleyDodds (talk) 04:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
  • I think the relative lack of tons of information is due to the fact that the vast majority of the album was made by one person on a laptop, thus limiting people to say stuff about it, and, I guess, stuff to say in the first place other then "I made it on a laptop". Nonetheless I added a little bit more to it, but seriously I think I'm at my rope's end with that stuff. Drewcifer (talk) 05:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
  • The lead says "Disputes arose between Reznor and Universal Music Group, parent company of Interscope Records, over the overseas pricing of the album, ultimately resulting in the severing of ties between the two parties", but this is not apparent in the article body, which doesn't link the disputes over pricing with Reznor's leaving the label. WesleyDodds (talk) 09:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  • It doesn't specifically say so, but I'd say the last two paragraphs of the Release and reception make it clear. A bit of rewording should fix it, Drewcifer. giggy (:O) 10:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Actually, I don't think it's as straightforward as you're making it. Reznor never said "YZ is too expensive in Australia, therefore I'm leaving." That was obviously part of it, but he never made a specific connection between the two. So, I reworded both to better reflect that. Drewcifer (talk) 14:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)