Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Wayne Gretzky

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[edit] Wayne Gretzky

This is one of the finest articles produced by WP:HOCKEY. It is a solid, stable piece of work with good references and NPOV and I think it would be a great example of Wikipedia's work in sports. edit: I suppose it's a self-nom; I've edited it a few times in the past. RasputinAXP talk contribs 14:50, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Very interesting! For starters, though, the introduction should probably be closer to three paragraphs, given the length of the article. The first para is good; you might follow it with something like "Seen as a hockey prodigy at an early age, Gretzky made his professional debut in X and went on to win an unprecedented number of etc.," then in the last paragraph, "After retiring from pro hockey in YEAR, G went on to a career as a WHATEVER." That kind of thing. Kaisershatner 15:19, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I've added a longer intro. Thanks for the suggestions! RasputinAXP talk contribs 14:58, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose I think it is a good article, but it needs some work to bring it up to FA status.
  • The sections need to be made more even in length. Perhaps some of the very short sections could be merged? Likewise, the "NHL career" paragraph could do with another sentence or two in the introduction explaining how he found himself in the NHL after the WHA. The WHA and early years sections could probably be merged.
  • It needs thorough copyediting. Some sentences are awkward, and although you can usually extract what they mean, it doesn't feel like the most lucid prose. For example, in the WHA section, the sentence with "...liquidated..." is unclear. You'd assume his "greatest asset" is Gretzky, but you don't know until the next sentence. The remainder of the article seems to have similar problems. Perhaps you could rope an outside editor into doing some copyediting?
  • Needs more thorough referencing.
  • Some of the list information could maybe be incorporated in a better way. I don't really think the "stats and facts" or "quotations" trivia sections belong in an encyclopedia article, especially one that is already quite long – maybe this information can be incorporated into the main stream of the text? As for the career statistics and awards section, I don't know. They interrupt the flow of the text, but they are important. The stats sections is too big to be in a sidebar, but perhaps the awards section? Can't it be merged with honours and accolades? In fact, can't NHL records, awards, honours and accolades all go in one big section?
Again, I think this is a good article about an important subject, but it needs a little more work to make it to FA status. –Joke 16:03, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the pointers. I've done a pile of copyediting and added referencing with a Notes section as Coffeeboy suggested below. RasputinAXP talk contribs 14:58, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
The article is much improved. I still have some lingering concerns.
  • Some statements in the off the ice section need to be referenced, as does the assertion that his presence on the Kings was partly responsible for the expansion of hockey in the US sun belt.
  • The post-retirement section needs something after the header, and some of the little sections seem a little short to me. Maybe this section could be reorganized to help the prose flow better, without the aid of so many headers? Maybe one long(er) section could cover the Winter Olympics, starting with the disappointment as a player in '98, '02 and now '06.
If these things are cleared up, I will support. –Joke 15:48, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I reorganized the post-retirement stuff and referenced what I could from the off the ice section. I removed the Tim Horton's reference as (on further research) I couldn't find anything to support it. RasputinAXP talk contribs 16:40, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Support Probably people with nits to pick could polish the grammar and improve the referencing, but I'm happy. (Who puts so much sugar and cream in their coffee, anyways?) –Joke 17:02, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
  • SupportOppose overall agree with the above, and a distinct lack of inline citations.Coffeeboy 16:56, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
    • I performed a major overhaul on the article, including merging most of the sections into chronological order, removing information that was duplicated in the Wayne Gretzky's records article. I also added inline citations, but looking at several other FAs I found that many of them don't use inline citations. That said, I prefer the citations inline anyway, so they're there. RasputinAXP talk contribs 19:48, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Support, there is some minor room for improvement, but overall I think its good enough for featured article status. Croat Canuck 17:58, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose.
    • This sentence needs two improvements: "'The Trade,' as it came to be known, upset Canadians to the extent that one lawmaker demanded the government block it, and Pocklington was burned in effigy." First, why is the "lawmaker" not named? Are we talking about a member of the Canadian Parliament? If so, who? And was this politician joking? Second, there is no citation for the "burning Pocklington in effigy," and no indication of who did this (Hundreds of hockey fans across Canada? Or just one?)
    • All the fair-use images need fair-use rationales.
    • "He hosted Saturday Night Live in 1989, though this re-enforced the notion among the public that he had better not quit his day job to pursue an acting career." POV uncited assessment of his acting skills.
    • The last three entries in the "Quotations" sections are uncited.
    • Andrew Levine 21:42, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Object as the "Quotations" section needs to go. That's what Wikiquote is for. Tuf-Kat 16:54, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Removed quotations, made "The Trade" sentence clearer, added citations, removed the POV stuff about his acting. I'm working on fair-use rationales. RasputinAXP talk contribs 21:54, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

*Sort of oppose for now. First, this is a great chronological over-view and is certainly close. But I think it needs a paragraph describing his playing style. "The greatest play-maker that ever was or ever will be (Hallelujah!)" comes to mind ;). More seriously, you could have a topic sentence on "skill set": puck handling, speed, behind the net play, angles and maybe work in other players (Kurri as finisher, McSorley as enforcer) etc. This might actually go after NHL career as a kind of summative thing.

  • Also, "...is still ruefully and vividly remembered by many Canadian fans" and anything else that makes reference to an "unqualified present" should go or be reformulated.

Marskell 13:55, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

    • Assembled a "skills" section, removed that sentence, and added refs for all. Oh, and fair-use rationales are added as well. RasputinAXP talk contribs 04:22, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Support. The skills were actually removed and I restored them. Also did a copyedit. It's around 50k but much of it is taken up with records and what not. No other outstanding objections. Good job! Marskell 08:21, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Support. All my objections have been adressed. Andrew Levine 16:24, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Support. I hope you can keep the article to FA standards with the recent events. Gflores Talk 23:27, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

1/2*Support. Though I support featuring this article, I think it should wait, there is currently new information being inputted into the article. When FBI investigation into the gambling scandal is over, then we can feature it. Pseudoanonymous 04:56, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Comment: It's actually the New Jersey State Police. It's been all over the local news in Jersey lately :) RasputinAXP talk contribs 04:44, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Minor objections - the note at the bottom for the infobox could be formatted a bit clearer; it took me a while to figure out where that note was pointing to. Also, agree with above that we could wait until he and his wife are out of the news. Finally, I don't like the listing of his entire career statistics - perhaps moving those to another article? Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 17:00, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Support great article, --Jaranda wat's sup 19:39, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment. We should keep it off the main-page until the business with the gambling is done, but I see no reason not to feature it in the meantime. Marskell 13:18, 14 February 2006 (UTC)