Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Vkhutemas

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 15:06, 14 August 2007.

[edit] Vkhutemas

This article is about a Russian design school from the 20s. Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to it so far. I feel that this article meets the criteria for featured article, and if not, will do so by the end of this FAC. Thanks in advance for your comments. Regards, D. Recorder 22:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Support Excellent, erudite and interesting article. I wonder if the lead might expand slightly on "It was dissolved in 1930" - this seems a little abrupt and a little flavour of the 'why' might help. --Joopercoopers 13:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
How about- It was dissolved in 1930, after numerous political pressures in the later years. The school's faculty, students, and legacy were dispersed into as many as six other schools.[8]? D. Recorder 19:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. --Joopercoopers 09:38, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
I fine-tuned it.[1] D. Recorder 01:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Support. Great job everyone!--Esprit15d 15:55, 6 August 2007 (UTC) Oppose: This is a generally well-written article. The research and coverage are good. But it seems that there are primarily some grammar and copy editing (and few MOS things) that need a little work. Of the four featured article criteria, I recommend addressing the following:

1. Basic criteria met?:
1a. Well written?
  • "merger of two schools; the Moscow" - that should be a colon, not a semi-colon
  • "industrial faculties, the art" - that comma should be a semi-colon, period, or colon (either of them would work)
  • "and architecture; the industrial" - It would be better to join this as one sentence since they are the same topic. Replace the semi-colon with "and" or ", while"
  • "school was reorganised which included a" - slightly off grammatically. The word "which" should relate back to a noun antecedent, but there is none here. So you have to say, "school was reorganized -- a reorganization which included..." You could also rephrase the sentence entirely. But, right now it isn't correct.
  • In the subheading "Basic Course", course should be lowercase
  • "An important part of the new teaching method which was developed at Vkhutemas, and was made compulsory for all students, and independently of future specialization, was a preliminary basic course." - This sentence is confusing, mostly because of it's passive voice construction. Rewrite it this way: A preliminary basic course was an important part of the new teaching method that was developed at Vkhutemas, and was made compulsory for all students, regardless of their future specialization.
  • "early 20s" - "early 1920s"
  • maximul - Is that the correct word?
I don't know, I asked another editor for clarification. D. Recorder 19:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I think it was just misspelled. D. Recorder 20:01, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
  • In the sentence that begins "In the early 20s this basic...", some of the words in the list start getting capitalization for no reason.
  • "and diverse media" - "working in diverse media"
  • " art, Kazimir Malevich joined " - comma after Malevich
  • "group Unovis of the" - comma after Unovis
  • "art school, which included" - "art school that included"
  • "architecture, examples are" - "architecture (semi-colon) examples include"
  • "painting, to sculptural works, to exhibition" - remove the commas
  • "print, exhibition design," - "print, and exhibition design(period)"
  • "new type, artists capable" - replace the comma with a double dash
  • "and functionality in society" - "and functionality found in society"
  • "of the Communist party, who" - Party should be capitalized. Who should be replaced by "that"
  • "for 'working class' elements" should be followed by a period
  • "A tendency towards working, functional designs with luxuries minimized resulted from this push for design economy." More confusing passive voice. Change to "This push for design economy resulted in a tendency towards working, functional designs with minimized luxuries. "
  • "moving parts, were standardized" - "moving parts, and were standardized"
  • "by Konstantin Melnikov, and its" - remove the comma
  • "utilitarian lines, Stepanova" - replace the comma with a period
  • "this was 'with the" - "this was done 'with the"
  • "and Suprematism, were also" - remove the comma
  • "which was focused more on engineering after acquiring the institute" - "which, after acquiring the institute, was focused more on engineering"
  • "Workshop which lasted" - "Workshop that lasted"
  • "Жолтовского), at the same" - replace the comma with a double dash
  • "organization with three resident" - resident should be plural (residents)
  • "Nikolai Dokuchayev etc.)." - rm the period in the parenthesis
  • "hold to Zholtovsky, at the same time" - "hold to Zholtovsky while at the same time"
  • "modernist art" - capitalize Modernist
  • " leader of rationalist architecture" - Rationalist should be capitalized
  • "the past; then, use it in abstract drafts; finally" - replace the semi-colons with commas
  • "school, the Constructivists" - double dash, not comma
  • "between Zholtovsky's classicism and Ladovsky's rationalism" - Classicism and Rationalism should be capitalized
  • "Golosov in 1923, spoke" - remove the comma
  • "departments, the dialectics" - "departments and the dialectics"
  • "example, 'The true" - say who said this, or it sounds like Wikipedia is saying it (which would be POV)
  • "am an old man.".[40]" - remove one of the periods
  • "Although Lenin was not an enthusiast for avant garde art,[41] projects were made at Vkhutemas, and by faculty and students in his honor and to further his politics." - confusing passive voice. Try "Although Lenin was not an enthusiast for avant garde art,[41] Vkhutemas faculty and students made projects to honor him and further his politics."
  • "for a Lenin Institute," - period, not a comma
  • "book, Constructivism published" - move the comma to after Constructivism
  • " were the first to train" - first where? In Europe? In the world? This claim should also be referenced or removed.
  • "it has been significantly less promoted" - "it was significantly less promoted"
  • "award winning student work" - award-winning should be hyphenated
  • ""Institute" instead of "Studios"" - ""Institute" replaced of "Studios""
  • "this reorganization the basic" - comma after reorganization
  • "Technical Workshops and stated" - "Technical Workshops, which stated"
  • This sentence: "Under this reorganization the 'artistic' content of the basic course was reduced to one term, when at one point it was two years." appears twice in the paragraph.
  • "The modernist movements" - Modernist should be capitalized
1b. Comprehensive? Very good. However, just a couple instances intrigue the reader. For example "Melnikov quit Vkhutemas" - why? This statement is so jolting, and unexplained.
I asked another editor to elaborate.D. Recorder 19:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I elaborated on this and added more context so it wasn't jolting. D. Recorder 20:01, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
1c. Factually accurate? Yes
1d. Neutral? Yes
1e. Stable? Yes
2. Complies with Manual of style and relevant WikiProjects?:
2a. Concise lead section? Yes
2b. Hierarchical headings? Yes
2c. Table of contents? Yes
2d. Sufficient inline citations? Very good here. Remember, however, the citation should always go after punctuation. There is at least two instances where this wasn't done.
3. Properly placed, tagged and/or rationalized images?: Yes
4. Appropriate length?: Yes

When these issues are addressed, note the changes here and notify me on my talk page. Thank you for your work so far. — Esprit15d 16:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I implemented what you suggested, thank you for such a thorough reading. I asked for clarification from other editors on one item I was unsure of and for more explanation of why Melnikov quit abruptly. D. Recorder 19:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I have addressed these two items, hopefully to your satisfaction. D. Recorder 20:01, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment, I would request or ask the reason for not seperating your primary references into a seperate section. As it stands the research literature used for this subject is merged with the citations making it hard to identify whether the sources were used for the sake of putting a citation near a couple sentences or if they were responsible for most of the text. With this the reader might know if there are more/better sources for the subject that can be incorporated, whether the sources are reliable according to his/her own research and/or the reader can see which books deal heavily with the subject if he/she wishes to pursue further reading. Thank you. 74.13.101.5 15:24, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello. I see this is a broader issue than this particular candidate page can resolve. I don't see your question as specific to this article, as what you are noticing is customary with current featured articles so may be applied to any of them. You can see this by viewing them on the main page, and other candidates on the candidate page. For a general discussion on the virtues of different methods of referencing and how they relate to featured articles, you might get a better response at Wikipedia talk:Citing sources or Wikipedia talk:Featured articles. If you want to know specific information about this articles references I can elaborate on them for you, but it is all pretty much there in the references section. If you ask a more direct question about the references in this article I will be glad to answer it. The frequency of citation is a good indication of the primariness of the reference, or the amount this article is indebted to each source. As for inline cites they are used in abundance in recently promoted articles, looking at some of them now with your question in mind, I don't see any that have references separated and classified as primary and secondary. I understand the reasoning for this to be that separating sources rather than linking them in line could create confusion as the text evolves and imply that they apply to the entire text and to what other may writers contribute at any given time. Using inline citations is more exact as to 'who said what'. Such is the nature of Wikipedia, it is collaborative, and if someone else adds information, it might appear to be attributed to any of the references listed in a separate list, when it may or may not be. Using inline cites relates the facts directly to the sources, and can even give page numbers for attribution and further reading. Regards, D. Recorder 00:13, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose—Cautious neutral. It's an interesting and worthy article on an unusual subject. I'd like to see it succeed, but it's not well enough written yet. Seek help from native speakers in this field. Here are random samples of problems.
    • MOS breach: read about single and double quotes.
    • "Constructivism, Rationalism, and Suprematism."—Why the upper-case?
    • "Akin to the Bauhaus' basic course at which all first year students had to attend"—The apostrophe looks very odd. Try "s's" if you need one at all. You don't attend at a course.
    • "In the early 1920s this basic course consisted of the following: ... 8) was by Wladimir Baranoff-Rossine."—Huh?
      • Fixed. I think there's some question mark about exatly what Rossine was teaching in this part of the course - I've replaced it to read "In the early 1920s this basic course consisted of the following: ... 8) tutelage by Wladimir Baranoff-Rossine" --Joopercoopers 10:02, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Ideas awkwardly jammed into this sentence: "Constructivism was developed as an art form in graphics and sculpture, but it had architecture or construction rather as the underlying subject matter, and was present throughout the school." "But" is a problem. So is "rather". The last point doesn't run smoothly.
      • Replaced with two sentences - "Whilst constructivism was ostensibly developed as an art form in graphics and sculpture, it had architecture and construction as its underlying subject matter. This influence pervaded the school." --Joopercoopers 10:06, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Basic course whose? It's not a person.
      • Fixed with a bit of a rewrite of the surrounding sentences. --Joopercoopers 10:37, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
    • "Class-based"—see hyphens in MOS. Tony 07:44, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
      • The article doesn't currently use "Class-based" as a compound adjective - I assume you meant for us to do so, in which case I have fixed it. --Joopercoopers 10:42, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

:**Thanks Tony, I'll have a look tonight (D.Recorder is on vacation). As far as I know, the main contributors are American and British (excepting NVO who's Russian I think) - what do you mean 'native speakers' - Russian or English? "Read about single and double quotes" - do you mean quotation marks or quotations from people? --Joopercoopers 09:13, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Better; surprised you like "whilst" rather than the plain, modern "while". Some of the captions aren't real sentences, and MOS says not to use a period in those cases. Tony 14:11, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Thanks for your prompt response - I've replaced my 'whilst's with 'while's (my old english teacher has a lot to answer for) and standardised the captions. What needs to happen to move your 'cautious neutral' to 'rapturous support'?--Joopercoopers 14:31, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Support: An interesting and well written page a good example of what a Featured article should be. Giano 09:29, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Support. A solid article all around. --Ghirla-трёп- 10:33, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Support per above. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 13:35, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.