Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/University College, Durham/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 22:34, 10 January 2007.

[edit] University College, Durham

Comprehensive and interesting (I hope!) article about one of the seveteen colleges at Durham University. Covers all aspect of student life and expalins its role in the unviersity. It also discusses the history of the college and wider issues such as the history of the college's buildings and its use by toursits and non-students.

A self-nomination, already a good article. I've never really been involved with FA's before, so I'm not sure what else I'm meant to put here! Hope you like it. --Robdurbar 16:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

• Comment. Please add full dates on last access dates for websites. I fixed your ref placement and section headings. Notable alumni needs to be cited. Sandy (Talk) 16:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I've fixed the dates, based on the dates they were added to the page. I've also now added a lot of citations to the notable alumni, though one is missing a source. I DO recall reading all that on a site recently (not a Wikipedia mirror) but I can't for the life of me track it down; I will be able to though, I'm sure. --Robdurbar 17:25, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

• Object, for now - Quite a comprehensive article, and well illustrated. However, the structure of the article could be improved - some of the sub-sections are too brief and stubby to stand alone, and should be merged, or better, expanded. Maybe alternate the alignment of the images so they dont overlap - 'Durham Castle gatehouse' is currently pushed under the infobox; should be aligned left.

Overall, the text needs a thorough copy edit:

• "The college was formed upon the creation of the university in 1832" - 'Upon' seems dated and overly formal, to my ears at least.
• "the university was always intended to be collegiate" - maybe 'origionally intended'.
• "Temporary accommodation for students was provided at the Archdeacon's Inn on Palace Green" - Needs to be clarified: temporarily between 1832 and 2006?
• "In 1837 the college and its students moved into their current location at Durham Castle" - Surely most of thoes students have passed away by now. Are they buried under Durham Castle?

Maybe this is nick picking, but the examples are from one half of an early paragraph, and similar problems continue through out. + Ceoil 00:11, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd quibble with your complaints about the perfectly good preposition 'upon', but your other comemnts are fair enough. I'd note that this has largely been written by myself so the writing style is probably fairly idosyncratic; going through the whole peer review/good article process has largely failed to encourage other writers.

I've given a brief copy edit though more is always possible, and I'll look into the sections; are there any you would suggest for merger? --Robdurbar 07:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

"Commercial activities and tourism" & "Lowe Library" are both stubs, and need to be expanded, merged or cut. In particular, Lowe Library - surely there is more to say on its current state than it provides access to core textbooks. You could take ideas from the main Library article etc, otherwise merge with "Buildings".

Re: 'upon', thats ok, but this was just an example taken from half of one paragraph to indicate work needed throughout the text. To take the 1st 3 sentences from the next para:

• "In 1846 the university's second college, Hatfield Hall, formed." - ...was formed, in 1946.
• "This split from Castle was due" - 'This split' - no previous mention of a split.
• "to the high costs involved in attending the college at the time - students were expected to provide servants and room furnishings" - implies cost were high because students were expected to provide servants and room furnishings.
• "During the rest of the nineteenth century" - For the remainder. + Ceoil 12:03, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks - I wasn't quibbling that there wern't inaccuracies. Oh, and the third one is correct - its quite expensive to provide servants and room furnishings! --Robdurbar 19:43, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Mmm, don't remember any servants or room furnishings when I was a student, but I take your point. My opinion however, is that that fact is not currently explicit in the text. I'm not suggesting at all that the article is inaccurate; it's certainly well researched, and I'd like to support promotion, if the prose was improved. + Ceoil 02:48, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Request for more comments - well there's only been two, and only one has given a definate yay/nay opinion. I'd hate for this candidature to die just because of a lack of response. --Robdurbar 22:39, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Robdurbar, will have another read of this tomorrow. + Ceoil 23:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

The article has improved since I left my comments, but the prose are not quite FA standard yet; suggest leaving a note at the WikiProject League of Copyeditors for help on this. I would also like to see certain sections expanded, as noted above. + Ceoil 20:59, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Object. Too many sections with small paragraphs with only a couple of sentences. Low Library is 4 sentences. Commercial activities, &c. is 6. The section titles almost look bigger than the section content. Writing doesn't stand out as brilliant and compelling, but it's slightly better than average. The Lead should have a paragraph that makes University College, Durham stand out academically...what makes it unique. Like faculty members, research, that UCD is known for. I can gather this article is not comprehensive (does not meet the 1(b) criteria) when i can't find what I'm looking for in a university article (an in depth discussion of academics, research, faculty, etc.) but I learn that I can rent the place out for conferences and weddings. The notable alumni section only mentions a half dozen people, and recaps their bios at length. Needs much more work, significant expansion. There has to be more about UCD than this, and it has to be better organized. I suggest redoing the article with the section heirarchy at Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities. Nice pictures, but they need better captions.—ExplorerCDT 02:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback. Bear in mind that this is a college in a collegiate university - so it doesn't have academics/research departments etc. I've added a clarification to this end in the introducion. --Robdurbar 09:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

• That doesn't mean UCD doesn't do anything to further civilization. They have to do something that makes them stand out, or they'd be out of business. I bring nothing from the article about what UCD has contributed. Even though it's not completley analogous, the Rutgers University article mentions in the lead that Streptomycin was discovered there. Even Oriel College, below, which is more analogous to UCD, mentions that the Tracterians (Keble and Newman) of the Oxford Movement did some work there. Something intellectual or monumental has had to happen at UCD. So far, I don't leave this article with even a little factoid I can use while drunk at a cocktail party, in case I happen to run into and attempt to "pick up" a British girl who might remotely know UCD. —ExplorerCDT 10:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.