Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Trojan War/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 01:39, 21 January 2008.

[edit] Trojan War

previous FAC

Brilliantly written, extensively referenced and most of the issues raised at the previous FAC seem to have been addressed. --Hadseys (talk • contribs) 19:01, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose. For several reasons, this article is not ready. Just taking a superficial look, I see that numerous references are formatted incorrectly, there are several "citation needed" tags and at least one reference listed as an external link and not a citation, and the entire thing is exceedingly long and "in-universe", for the lack of a better term. It reads mostly as a summary of The Iliad and other works while failing to comprehensively explain the historical influence and attributions of this battle. The way it is now, there is not enough balance between the fiction and the historical.

• On a side note, I take issue with a third-party nomination when it is not established that the primary editors are ready to address concerns and issues during the FAC process. Nothing personal against the nominator, but it would seem that this is the second nomination in as many days that they've made when they had nothing to do with the writing of the article; how will concerns be met? Have the primary editors been contacted? María (habla conmigo) 19:31, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
• Also, please note that three additional fact tags were removed before the nomination, but no citations were provided. These statements should either be correctly sourced or have the tags re-added for proper verification. María (habla conmigo) 19:52, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose, with regrets. The article is full of well-found information that I love to see assembled in one place. But there are too many problems in structure, style, usage, punctuation, and the niceties of grammar for serious considerable here. At this stage! My recommendation: recruit a new expert copyeditor to go over the article with fresh eyes. Greek text and transliterations are managed inconsistently. What variety of Greek is it, in the main text? Shouldn't it be represented polytonically, not monotonically as if it were modern? Why are some transliterations given without Greek text, and vice versa? And get a citations expert to run through all the citations, with an eye to punctation, consistency of style, and conformity to norms. I'd love to see this article made ready for FAC, but I think it falls short just now. I am ready to help with small specific matters. Contact me at my talkpage if you like.– Noetica^♬♩ Talk 03:28, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose: I chose some sentences at random:
• lead: "Whether there is any historical reality behind the events of the Trojan War cycle is an open question." - "is unknown"? "is under debate"?
• lead: "Many scholars [atribution needed] would agree [say] that there is a historical core to the tale,[...]" - hypothetically speaking??? which scholars? is this even in the body?
• Historical basis: "That most Achean heroes did not return to their homes and founded colonies elsewhere was interpreted by Thucydides as being due to their long absence" - "Thudydides claimed that the reason most Achean heroes did not return to their homes, instead founding colonies elsewhere, was that their absence was too long."-or "Most Achean heores did not return to their homes, instead founding colonies elsewhere. Thucydides claimed that absence had "made the heart grow colder". (or similar)
• Also agreeing with Maria and Noetica. - also with previous FAC reviewer Ceoil who said "The style of prose in areas seems overly antique, almost biblical."

--Kiyarrllston 05:28, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.