Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Thug Ride/archive1

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[edit] Thug Ride

Skraten' up!! This article gives a detailed track-by-track description of an important and often overlooked thugrap album of the late 90's. without White Dawg's innovations, where would the state of Crunk be today? the article is well-written and detailed. - DIRTYSOUTH 23:27, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

I guess this is fairly complete considering that the subject is somewhat obscure. Is there anything more you can write? Maybe some more info on its critical reception, influence on later rappers? It looks pretty good, but I don't know if it's quite outstanding quality yet. Everyking 23:34, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Oh, and you need to add a track listing, so people don't have to dig through the paragraphs to find the info if they just want the basics. Everyking 23:37, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This is one krunk-ass article. Enthusiastic support! silsor 23:45, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

Oppose. The third paragraph of the lead is far from neutral (tell who sees the album as an ahead of the time example of crunk, as an example). Other uncited opinions throughout article (e.g. Many have praised the beat, considered controversial by some and feminists have derided its lyrics as sexist (all feminists?). Most importantly, there's essentially no content beyond a brief description of each song. We need some details on the album's history, recording, marketing, etc. Tuf-Kat 00:13, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

Oppose. The analysis of the tracks is good but there is not yet enough here to engage anyone who is not already interested in the subject. I would like to see an explanation of 'thug rapper', a basic track list, solidification of phrases like "remains well-known among some hip hop fans" (which seems to diminish its own subject), and a fuller explanation of why the record was or became important. Perhaps it should be listed at RFC for peer review. --Theo (Talk) 00:58, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Oppose. No references, only a brief section on why the record is important, and no notation of when the album was recorded. THe article is essentially one long (over?) analysis of the album. See Wikipedia:What is a featured article. --b. Touch 02:29, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Object. In addition to the above: 1) an article about music should include a sound sample. 2) The ??? in the table shouldn't be there. 3) Most importantly: Much of the article is vague ("reviews were mostly positive"), POV at times (" to impressive effect"), and mostly lists some of the lyrics, seemingly emphasizing the expletives. There's no serious overview of the album, its sales, its fans or its critics. Basically, this article is not even close to being comprehensive. Jeronimo 18:07, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Blimey, it's as if Goldie Lookin' Chain had been American. Oppose. For it to be acceptable as a Wikipedia article, let alone a featured article, it would need to have a much greater amount of "According to Dawg (source), the track (name of track) (optionally: - which was released as a single on (date), selling (copies) and reaching (number) in the (chart) in (location)) was written (as a commentary on / about the issue of / to attack rival rapper / etc) (source). Critics, meanwhile, described the track as (source) etc" rather than its current form, which reads like a clever white university graduate having a right old laugh at the perceived triviality of working class music. To add to the examples above, phrases such as "an epic beat", "one of the album's highlights", "White Dawg's first big hit" (in the context of saying that a song is particularly good, rather than an objective commercial success) and even describing someone as an "underground rapper" aren't really with-it. In its current form, I would recommend deleting the article and adding, to the page on White Dawg, the text "Dawg's first album, Thug Ride, was released in 1991. Although the album did not chart it received many favourable reviews (source), and the single "Restless" reached number 18 in Billboard's Hot Rap Singles chart".-Ashley Pomeroy 18:59, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Aw, c'mon, Ashley, do you really need to be so harsh? The article needs improvement but suggesting that it is only fit for deletion seems unconstructive to me. --Theo (Talk) 21:36, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, it's not really a bad article. You have to take into account that it only sold 30,000 copies. It needs a simple track list, some NPOVing in places, some critical cites if possible, and references to other rappers' opinion of the album if possible. And I thought calling this "working class music" was really funny. Everyking 22:11, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

We'll have "popular beat combo" next! --Theo (Talk) 22:21, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC) [And we may now be far enough off-topic]

That's my, er, socialist background coming through; I tend to see things in terms of class. 'Working class music' sounds a bit fogeyish but it's quite accurate in this context; notwithstanding the popular perception that rappers are mostly posh middle-class brats pretending to be "down" with "the street", viz The Beastie Boys, The Streets, The Rolling Stones etc, White Dawg seems to be the real deal. He's not 'urban' or 'black', except in the most euphemistic terms, and I absolutely refuse to use the word 'skrunk', and there's no other way for me to describe the man. My other critcisms still apply, as the article is nowhere near straight enough to be taken straight, or absurd enough to be taken as absurd humour, i.e. in the mould of Derek and Clive's 'Bo Duddley', where they over-analysise a blues standard through the prism of Oxbridge educations. -Ashley Pomeroy 10:21, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Oppose OMG, you is voting for this illitereate piece of white trash writing as FA? O, an' where be de references, and what might youall say about de star o' de SHOW? An what you say about an article that is not as long as my =dick=? Huh? OMG!! (White Dawg and Dozia Slim shout over an epic beat. What ever!) Denni☯ 00:35, 2005 Mar 24 (UTC)
• SUPPORT I want a million so I'm grindin' for this fuckin' change. Fired up, skraten' up. Wikipedia, Skraten' up!!! SKRATEN' UP 04:24, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)