Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Scout Association of Hong Kong

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 06:16, 31 January 2007.

[edit] The Scout Association of Hong Kong

The article, supported by several wikiprojects (Scouting, Hong Kong, China) has had several peer reviews, and many contributors, including myself. The linking to Chinese naming has been a challenge, as well as hard to find historic data. Now, it is my humble opinion that the article has achieved a certain quality, therefore I propose it here. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 19:59, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• Support. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 19:59, 13 January 2007 (UTC).
• Comment Lead should cover the organizational and events sections better. Other than that, nice work. Sumoeagle179 20:53, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Good suggestion: lead text now enlarged for this. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 21:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

• Object—Far below the required standard of writing.
  • Ripper of an opening sentence: "The Scout Association of Hong Kong (香港童軍總會) is the Scouting organisation in Hong Kong." Is that a joke?
  • "After the first Scouting initiatives as early as 1909, the Hong Kong branch of the Boys Scout Association of the United Kingdom started in 1914 ..." Why mark the earliness of 1909? "In" is fine here. "Boy", not "Boys" in your piped link.
  • "The Scout Association of Hong Kong runs, among others, the major campsites Gilwell Campsite (基維爾營地), Tai Tam Scout Centre (大潭童軍中心) and Tung Tsz Scout Centre (洞梓童軍中心)." Among other what? "Campsite" x 2. And you can pluralise "Centre" to save one occurrence in this list.
  • "The Association is administratively headed by the Hong Kong Chief Commissioner (香港總監), and covers five regions with 35 districts." Administratively? What other way would there be? "With" is a problem.
  • "uniformed members"—Are there ununiformed members?
  • "The assocation organises the traditional Scout Rally annually with Scout competitions and activities." They organise it annually; does it happen annually too? Better: "the annual Scout Rally", dispensing with "traditional". Do they use the comps and acitvities to organise the Rally? (Again, "with" is a problem".)
  • Inconsistent "iz" and "is"—BrEng prefers the "s".

These are some of the problems in the lead. Every sentence requires major surgery. Tony 09:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Tony: "Is that a joke?" there is no need to be sarcastic when providing constructive feedback.Rlevse 12:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

• • Thanks for providing such elaborate feedback, Tony. Highly appreciated.
    • The opening sentence was not intended to be jocular, but I'm glad you saw the humour in it. I have added an indicative adjective.
    • 1909 is recognized in Scouting as being very early: the Scouting for Boys book was only published in 1908. But indeed for the general public all this explanation is too much: 'in' inserted. The 'boys' typo obviously corrected (sorry, has been overlooked by all scout and non-scout proofreaders)
    • All three provided examples are campsites, and then only the major ones in HK. They are the formal names of the sites, so I'd rather not combine Centre and Centre here. I have copy-edited the text to do away with the among others and provide a more logical run of the sentence.
    • There are several other ways to head an organisation, notably operational (by the Chief Scout), financial (by the president of the association) and functional (by the WOSM). Therefore I not made any changes to this. Although I don't see with as a problem, I reworded it.
    • Yes, there are thousands of ununiformed members (lay members, see text), left out of this summary.
    • This sentence has had multiple variations already. Again further improved now.
    • The article is meticulously written in EN-GB, taking care to retain the official spelling of all names of organisations and buildings mentioned. Since some of these have chosen the EN-US spelling in their name (notably the WOSM and the Cheung Center), this has resulted in a mentioning both the Such and So Organisation as well as the This and That Organization, complying with/to WP:ENGVAR.
  • Wim van Dorst (Talk) 15:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
• Comment - The "Founding of Hong Kong Scouting movement" section mentions that in the beginning, membership to the association was restricted to those of European descent. Do we have a reference for this? I also did not see where the article mentions when membership became open to local Chinese as well. That may be good information to add. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 19:12, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
  • The sentence is a bit misleading. At the beginning, participants were mostly the family members of British merchants and military personnels. Scout Movement was quite new to Chinese and Hong Kong Scouting was a new born baby. The Branch was officially set up in 1914 at the beginning of WWI. Hong Kong Scouting nearly vanished when the WWI spread. Most enthusiastic male adults had gone to war in Europe and the younger took up auxiliary services in Hong Kong. It was a really hard time for Hong Kong Scouting. You might expected only few Chinese families in Hong Kong were in contact with this new movement. The striking effect of WWI was not limited to Hong Kong. However, the Movement revived after the first World Jamboree in 1920. From 1921 the new Colony Commissioner George Turner Waldegrave had put much effort on the Hong Kong Scouting. Two Chinese Commissioners are responsible for the Scouting among Chinese. Nelson Victor Halward, one of the Chinese Commissioners, who became Colony Commissioner in 1934 trains Scouters for Scouts of China in Canton besides Hong Kong Scouting. — HenryLi (Talk) 08:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
    • So basically, there's really no evidence it was ever technically restricted to local Chinese? No evidence that some local Chinese tried to join and were denied membership based on their race? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 16:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
      • Yes, there's no evidents in denial of membership based on race, but nationality. Every member had to promise to do his duty to British King/Queen in early days. In 1922, 2 year after the revival of Hong Kong Scouting, Chinese members were still minority in nearly every Troops except the 10th Hong Kong Troop organsied by St. Paul's College, which was set up by an ethnic Chinese graduate from Cambridge University. It is still hard to know the number of ethnic Chinese Scout members between 1909 to 1919 in Hong Kong. — HenryLi (Talk) 14:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
• Support. The article has achieved a certain quality. More comments in FAC period helps improving it towards fully qualified Featured Articles.— HenryLi (Talk) 00:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
• Support support now with improvments made during FAC.Rlevse 01:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
• Support now that the article has been vastly improved, I support it after a good read through. Darthgriz⁹⁸ 20:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
• Support good work since nomination. Sumoeagle179 11:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.