Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Blackening/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 03:01, 26 November 2007.

[edit] The Blackening

This article was in really bad shape so i decided to do something about it. The last week or so i have made the final changes to hopefully bring this up to FA quality and a peer review was most helpful. M3tal H3ad 04:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

• Comment — Article looks good, but you might want to request a copyedit. Some of the sentences in the article probably need to be reworded. I don't recall any featured articles that describe a song as being "as a 'fuck you' to [etc.]". (Ibaranoff24 05:00, 10 November 2007 (UTC))

• Uncle Tupelo does (well, it describes an album as such). Teemu08 21:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Well none of the songs on other FA's are most likely not to be written with the intention as a "fuck you" to someone. Any suggestions to reword it? M3tal H3ad 05:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

No, I have no idea. That's why I suggested requesting copyediting. (Ibaranoff24 07:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC))

Better? I don't want to request a ce because not much will be done (i don't blame the project as it is entirely voluntary) M3tal H3ad 07:51, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose Needs a copy edit. Here are some examples (ie there is much more than this that needs addressing) of why:

• "Fuck you" and "fucked up lyrics" etc need inline citations.

Check the end of the paragraph, no point having 3-4 references that are the same for one paragraph

Each quote needs a separate citation, per WP:CITE.[RD]

Cited. M3tal H3ad 14:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

• There's a section using the {{cquote}} template which is specifically deprecated.

Fixed.

• Quotes—consider single and double per WP:PUNC and removing intermediate ones altogether when two quoted sentences run on—need urgently sorting out. Examples: (1) "Aesthetics of Hate" contained what Flynn described as a "totally fucking lame "Angel of Death" rip off." "I hated it every time we played it so I was glad to see that part go!" (excessive/confusing quote marks) and (2) Vocalist Flynn described "Clenching the Fists of Dissent" as the most difficult song to create (missing quote marks) and (3) "Are you sure you don’t want to get into something a little more direct? (missing closing quote altogether).

1) Angel of Death is a song, thus in speech marks but i have merged the two quotes into one for readability as you said

As you're using double quotes for song titles, you should consider using single quotes to indicate speech.[RD]

Then wouldn't that go against the standards set? M3tal H3ad 14:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

2) There is no quote here, the song is in speech marks

That's my point. Perhaps 'the most difficult song to create' should also be in quotes (and cited).[RD]

Reworded the sentence. M3tal H3ad 14:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

3) Fixed

• Days/months need wikifying.

Days and month are wikilinked. Single dates and months alone do not need to be linked (as far as I'm aware) and add absolutely nothing to the article.

They absolutely do need it, to render dates correctly in countries where May 16 is written 16 May (this is governed by the "Date and time" tab in My Preferences).[RD]

Never knew that, done. M3tal H3ad 14:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

• Needs logical punctuation for quotations.

I don't quite understand?

See WP:PUNC. If the quotation is part of the sentence put the punctuation outside the quote marks.[RD]

Done, although I'm not sure if i quote a full sentence if the fullstop should be inside?. M3tal H3ad 14:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll comment again after it's cleaned up.--ROGER DAVIES ^TALK 09:16, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou for the comments. M3tal H3ad 12:33, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Clarification — The problem is that you're using the same type of quote marks (this one ") to indicate song title, direct quotations, paraphrases (I think), and emphasis. This not only results in an overwhelming sea of rabbit ears but also makes it difficult to work out which bits are what. Here, blindly following the MoS doesn't help, you need to improvise. I suggest you use single quotes (') to indicate direct quotations; double quotes (") to indicate song titles and italics (italics) for emphasis. There remain (though it's difficult to say for sure because you're using " for both quotes and emphasis) several quotations without citations. Every quotation needs a citation ^[n] indicating its origin directly after it. --ROGER DAVIES ^TALK 13:39, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Now i understand, these are now changed to 'Song', "quote", emphasis thanks for clearing that up. M3tal H3ad 01:34, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment

• I don't think Roger Davies is right about the MOS issues. Songs and quotes are always in double quotations; except for when there is a quote-within-a-quote or a song-within-a-quote, then you use singles quotes - "blah blah blah 'songname' blah blah". As for emphasis, from what I have seen, encyclopedic prose never requires emphasis. So there is no neccesity of italicised words at all (pre-buzz should be in quotes)
• The fuck you in the lead, cannot be used the way it is now because the language is unencyclopedic. What you CAN use though is - X has said that the song is meant to be a "fuck you" to Y - cause then your quoting somebody.
• The last paragraph of the Recording section can do away with the "Which song was the most difficult for you to construct?" quote and instead simplify the prose to "Flynn has said that "X" and "Y" were the mos difficult songs to construct". Also attributes is supposed to be attributed, continued is continues. Also, the last sentence of that paragraph doesn't fit with the rest.
• What is tracking? The first REALLY should be completely changed. None of that stuff should even be in the lead. Instead talk about more general stuff like release date etc.
• Whats a tentative b-side? Vibe is unencyclopedic.

Actually, looking at it, this article way too many prose issues - unencyclopedic language, past/present tense problems, arbitrary italicisation and bad grammar... Also there are content issues like the Background which seems to grapple with itself over which song was written/recorded first. That stuff shouldn't even be in the Background section! Tommy Stardust (talk) 16:01, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Woo a comment! :) The first 3 things were changed because of the person above, but i agree with you and changed it back. Tracking removed and length of recording and writing added, two paragraphs in background moved to recording, the current background section now deals with stuff building up to the album. Will give the article another rundown and thanks for the comments. M3tal H3ad (talk) 04:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.