Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Spira (Final Fantasy X)/archive1

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[edit] Spira (Final Fantasy X)

Nominate and support I found this article to be amaizing and of apropiate extension for the topic at hand.Nnfolz 20:47, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

*Comment.Can you please clarify which article you are nominating? The link above points to a disambiguation page. Thanks. LordViD 20:55, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Never mind that, I've fixed the link to point to Spira (Final Fantasy X). LordViD 20:58, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Object. The article does not have inline references, uses a large number of fair use images for decorative rather than explanatory purposes, and doesn't explain anything to the general reader about why the subject is interesting or noteworthy.--Bcrowell 21:18, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak Object per Bcrowell. It's a GA, but it still needs some work to become a FA. Deckiller 21:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Also, this article wasn't peer reviewed first (or at least I dont' see the archived PR on the talkpage). Deckiller 21:31, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Update: I decided to add a little something to try and help the significance out, but I'm basically dead right now and it's a poor attempt. Hopefully, it will serve as a base to build around. Deckiller 21:37, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Object This is my special article and I wrote most of it, and even I don't think it is anywhere near ready. I do disagree about the images, however. How are we supposed to know what these places look like without images? All of the other Final Fantasy Locations articles are the same in that respect. Somehow, I believe this kind of article is the kind of article that really can't become featured, no matter how good it gets. It shouldn't have been nominated, IMO. Mythology of Final Fantasy X would have been a better choice. Tell me, is it possible to de-nominate an article?PiccoloNamek 21:59, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Object per everybody else above- primarily for lack of inline citations. References should also be properly cited according to WP:CITE. AndyZ 02:16, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The article's pretty good, but, like PiccoloNamek says, it's not quite ready. However, my main objection is that the article treats Spira as a real place rather than a fictional place in the real world. Where's the discussion about the artists who drew it? About how the game designers decided where to put what? About any innovations made in the programming to make the world look different form previous FF games? — BrianSmithson 15:54, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Support I'll stick my neck out, I think it's great, the images are generally fair use, but that's totally unavoidable in this case, seeing as they're all screenshots. --PopUpPirate 00:18, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Object, but... The images are necessary in this article. Many imagined places are very difficult to describe, especially in video games because of the very nature of these places- video games are purposefully very fanciful, and contain locations which are often radically different than any which occur in the real world. Having looked at the pictures, I feel it would both be extremely difficult and detract from the quality and readability of the article if the images were removed and replaced with written descriptions. That being said, this article is currently not ready to be feratured. The tone of the article is not exactly encyclopedic. It's difficult to nail down the tone, but it reads too much like a travel guide for me. The article also assumes that the reader already knows a lot about the game. Ideally, any person, familiar with the game or not, should be able to pick up this article and understand almost everything it says. That is currently not the case. The article is very good, it contains a lot of information, but that information has to be stated in a different way. I think a Peer Review and a thorough copyedit by someone familiar with the game would both do this article a lot of good. RyanGerbil10 04:45, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
  • The article was written with that tone on purpose, and personally, I think it makes it more interesting to read. If I had a choice between a boring Wikipedia-style article that was featured, and an article that was fun and interesting to read but non-featured, I'd pick the latter. Also, it should be mentioned that the article is a companion with Mythology of Final Fantasy X, which explains, very in-depth, many of the things that Spira doesn't. It really isn't fesible to put all of that information in a single article. Something else that should be mentioned is that, aside from the short explanation of the game's backstory, it really isn't very different from any other Final Fantasy Locations article. There's no place there for explanations of things like the game's artists, designers, or programming. That would be better suited for Final Fantasy X.PiccoloNamek 05:07, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Caveat: I've never played FFX. But I'm not sure why treating the world of FFX as if it's real in a Wikipedia article is somehow a good thing. Why wouldn't I, as a non-FFX player, want to hear that So-and-so, world designer, decided to place Continent X on the map because he wanted players to have a place to search for the Great Sword of X? Or that as a matter of game balance, the world is laid out so that the Mountains of X prevent the players from passing until they get the airship? Some of this does belong in the FFX article, to be sure, but it's very important to remember that this is an encyclopedia and not a fanpage. There's a difference, and articles like Captain Marvel (DC Comics) and Spoo keep this in mind (both are featured, unlike any FF location article). In short, treat Spira as a cultural artifact in our own world and you have the right idea. — BrianSmithson 12:46, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Unfortunately, it is impossible to know 99% of that information without interviewing the designers. As far as I now, they have not been interviewed about that. I can ask Ryu Kaze if any such information appears in the Ultimania guide, though. Also, I am of the opinion that certain articles can actually benefit from a somewhat non-encyclopedic tone, as long as the information is factually correct and the point of view is neutral. An article doesn't sound need to sound like it was written by an android to be encyclopeidc.
    Regardless, I still don't think it should have been nominated. Ever. PiccoloNamek 16:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually I have the book The Art of Final Fantasy X with interviews with all those guys (as you can see in the early history of the now defunct page). Problem is that I don't read japanese. Ryu Kaze does so he could translate it. Let me know which interviews you are interested and I will scan it and upload it for Ryu to read Renmiri 03:27, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Object - Forgot to say I agree with Picollo, it is nowhere near ready Renmiri 00:38, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
    • To be fair, I don't think Mr. Smithson was suggesting that the article be made "boring." But I agree, in the large part, with many of his concerns: the article does presume too much foreknowledge of the game itself, and tends to deemphasize the fictional nature of its subject matter. This isn't a matter of whether or not the article is "interesting," but whether or not its particularly informative. To be featured, it should be both. – Seancdaug 00:13, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Object per others voting object. —Eternal Equinox | talk 21:37, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose Completely unsourced, and the location summaries read like strategy guide entries, very non-encyclopedic. Staxringold 01:24, 8 March 2006 (UTC)