Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sasha (DJ)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted.

[edit] Sasha (DJ)

Good language, which has now been copyedited by myself and two other editors (thanks Outriggr and Coil!), which was the reason for the objects from the previous nom. Previous noms: here and here. Also peer reviewed twice, including one since the last FA nom (here and here. NPOV, sourced, and all that good stuff as well. I think after all this, its finally up to FA standards. Support as nominator and primary contributor. Wickethewok 19:26, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Support, great article. Read it during the previous fac's and the prose has definetely been improved. - Tutmosis 21:11, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Object, but not strongly, as I'm having a hard time getting past the first paragraph.
  • Support conditionally, lots of comments to post, but it is readable, enjoyably so, and addresses a general audience.
"Sasha (born Alexander Coe on 1969 September 4), is a Welsh DJ and record producer."
Is it a pseudonym, adopted name, performance name?
"Sasha began his career playing acid house in the late 1980s, and became a central figure in the development and popularisation of electronic dance music."
Playing acid house dance music, you mean? Talk to your neighbor's grandmother. What would she know if you said, "He plays acid house?" What about if you said, "He's plays acid house dance music." She knows what dance music is.
"He partnered with fellow DJ John Digweed in 1993, touring internationally and producing a series of mixess.[1]"
Is this some alternative spelling of mixes that I don't know about? It it means something special when spelled this way, it should have a remark explaining it. But I don't think so, and I really think fundamental spelling errors should be gone from an article before FAC.
"Through their track selection and mixing techniques, Sasha and Digweed were instrumental in the evolution of progressive trance and house.[2]
You really need the whole thing in the introduction, you're not talking electronic dance music genres in this sentence, and it's in the introduction, so you can't omit things and say, they were instrumental in the evolution of house. House what?
Sasha has produced multiple UK-charting singles[3] and has remixed tracks for Madonna and The Chemical Brothers. He earned a Grammy nomination for his 2004 remix of Felix Da Housecat's "Watching Cars Go By".
First sentence implies he remixed tracks for these two, but not others, or he's only known for these two, and second sentence contradicts tone and content of first.
"Sasha's remixing and production often combine electronic genres, making it difficult for critics to pinpoint his musical style.[4] His debut album Airdrawndagger surprised many critics with its unusual, cross-genre sound.[5]"
Combine electronic genres of what? Of music? Of computers? Don't like the second sentence.
"Sasha worked with younger DJs and producers such as Brian Transeau and James Zabiela, greatly influencing their musical styles and techniques."
When, from the beginning. You're not keeping your time frame straight in this article (hazzard of multiple editors, admitedly).
"His use of the Ableton Live music sequencer helped popularise technological innovations among DJs who formerly relied on records and turntables.[6] Despite the changing trends in electronic dance music, Sasha continues to attract crowds at dance clubs.[7] As of late 2006, he is on an intercontinental tour and is gathering material for future mix albums."
First sentence too technical, add details so your neighbor's grandmother knows what you mean. I'd like this clothing paragraph of the introduction to really nail his place, today, in his genre.

KP Botany 21:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Issue 1. Sasha is a common nickname for Alexander (derived from Russian I think). How should this be denoted?
  • Issue 3. This was a recent edit done by an editor trying to change some wikilinks, I have fixed the typo.
  • All others you mentioned I have attempted to fix. Could you please read the rest of the article? I would like to hear your opinion on it. Wickethewok 23:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I have every intention of reading the entire article, whether it is up to FAC or not--I do think, however, that it would be helpful to really have a strong lead sectionthat compels me to keep reading. I'm not certain how to best say this in English, he uses his nickname as his stagename, possibly someone else can help out. I will look again. And, yes, I like to see popular culture articles right up there with articles on countries and leaders and mountain ranges and biology, on the main page. KP Botany 23:32, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
For other FA reviewers, this article does have extensive references, mostly from in-house resources, as I would expect from popular culture. However, these same types of references, fanzines, professional magazines, charts, guide listings, are available for things like WWF/E also. KP Botany 23:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong Object for now. The article simply needs to much work to be readable, and is written entirely for its local audience. Moved to Bangor? Bangor, Maine? Bangor, New South Wales? You have to write the article for people who aren't familiar with the subject. The editors have done comparatively extensive research (for a popular personality), and now need to sit down, look at the entire article, and ask, would my neighbor's Midwestern American grandmother know what I was talking about? Would she be confused when and where and how we wound up in Manchester after we'd been born in Wales? IT's the type of topic that Wikipedia can potentially beat all the big guys at, so it's important to do it well. This doesn't, and needs too much work to be considered right now for FA. KP Botany 00:08, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Note: before you commented, Bangor, Wales was in the first sentence of the first section. I think the reader can safely assume "moved to Bangor", later in that paragraph, indicates the same Bangor. –Outriggr § 01:10, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment -- please send the emails indicating licensing for the images to permissions AT wikimedia DOT org so that we can verify them and archive them. Thanks. Jkelly 18:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I have forward the relevant emails to permissions. Wickethewok 03:44, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
  • CommentSupport what's happened to the lead :- He partnered with fellow DJ John Digweed in 1993, touring internationally and producing a series of mixeInsert non-formatted text heres.[1] . --Mcginnly | Natter 01:27, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Lead fixed - seems to walk the walk. --Mcginnly | Natter 12:15, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Conditional Support - (have copy edited the article). - Article is comprehensive, accurate, and well sourced. However, the text still needs a little tweaking to bring it to FA standard. Note: Mcginnly's concerns above were due to a short lived typo. + Ceoil 01:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Text has been sufficently tweaked. The article has greatly improved since its last candidacy, my openion is that it now meets all four of the FA requirements, with a little bit left over for christmas. + Ceoil 01:36, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I thank you all for your comments, I will attempt to resolve the relevant issues shortly. Wickethewok 03:44, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Diff for perusal. I dunno if its enough changes (I doubt it is), but I'm not sure what other information to add without going into long sections not entirely related to the subject. Wickethewok 04:50, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
  • In case anyone didn't see this in the above nomination, the previous FACs are here and here. Wickethewok 20:47, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm curious as to what others thought of the expanded explanations I added. Happy holidays, all. Wickethewok 04:11, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Object - 1c
  • I changed several of your article titles to agree with the sources, and added access dates.
  • (This source doesn't verify any of the text indicated - perhaps it's the wrong link?) Birchmeier, Jason. Sasha + John Digweed biography. All Music Guide. Retrieved on 2006-09-27.
  • (This source doesn't discuss Sasha and doesn't verify the text given - perhaps it's the wrong link?) DJMag Website. DJMag. Retrieved on 2006-11-06.
  • (This source should include the date - 7/7/97 - I added it, and corrected the source.) Dresden, Dave. Interview with Sasha. DJ Times. Retrieved on 2006-09-08.
  • (not there) Sasha biography. BBC (2006-07-06).
  • Book sources need page numbers - examples only:
    • Brewster, Bill (2000). Last Night a DJ Saved My Life. Grove Press. ISBN 0-8021-3688-5.
    • Bidder, Sean (1999). The Rough Guide to House Music. Rough Guides. ISBN 1-85828-432-5.
    • Snoman, Rick (2004). Dance Music Manual: Toys, Tools, and Techniques. Focus Press. ISBN 0-240-51915-9.
  • (This looks like Simon Jones, but ref says Ben Turner?) Turner, Ben (2006-02-07). Sasha & John Digweed - Delta Heavy: A DVD Documentary. Progressive-Sounds.
  • (Title on this looks like it should be DJ Culture) Juarez, Vanessa (2006-02-03). DJ Sasha on Dance Music's Glowstick Culture. Newsweek.
  • and so on ... I stopped there ... pls check the rest of your refs. The small things can be fixed easily, but I'm concerned about the sources that don't verify the text cited, and books need page nos. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:30, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I will check on these issues immediately, thank you. Wickethewok 04:52, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Getting closer - books still need page numbers; this source should include author and publisher(05.12.2002 The Age, Come in, spinner By Andrew Drever, reprinted at djsasha.com); don't understand the Newsweek/MSNBC thingie, but I'll take your word for it and strike; and, as I look at the references continuing from where I left off yesterday, there is inconsistency - some of the sources are still incomplete, not including the exact webpage title or webpublisher. For example, this blue link (Progressive-Sounds Interview with Junkie XL. Retrieved on 2006-12-31. ) doesn't indicate that the article title is Junkie XL "Today", and doesn't show the publisher (progressive-sounds.com) in the same format as the earlier occurrences of refs to the same source. When you're trying to track down an article with an exact search function, knowing the exact title can be key. Also, when an article title has a second line, it can help to include that, so readers have a better shot at finding it in the future, if the link goes dead (example: Don't Speak: A man of few words, dance music hero Sasha talks with his hands). This needs to indicate that it's his website - djsasha.com (Sasha tour dates (navigate to "Tour Dates"). Retrieved on 2006-12-31.) FAs need to highlight Wiki's best work - polish it 'til it shines. Also, on some of those sources that keep changing their URLs, have you checked the internet archive? If you don't know how to use it, just google internet archive, plug in a URL, and see if an archived version comes up - you can link to it as a permanent link. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:34, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Ah, the reason why you didn't see the page numbers was because I didn't realize I had to manually include the "pp.". I'm adding some archive links to for ones that have 'em. Let me know what you think. Thank you so much! Wickethewok 03:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Refs look better now - striking my object, but please include page no. on Snoman. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:19, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment (edit conflict) - overall I'm impressed, but a few issues with the referencing
    • Spaces after punctuation can cause floating ref marks.
      Spaces after punctuation can cause floating ref marks.
      There is one note with a space before it, but it happens to cause a floating ref mark for me. I would like to try to use the screencap as an example at WP:FN, if the article author(s) don't mind.
    • References should not be search links. The first reference (a search link) doesn't turn up any article for me.
    • References should go to page with the data directly, not to the main page of the site. Thus reference "UK Chart Rankings", "DJMag Website", the "Winter Music Conference Website" and, alas, "Billboard Chart Rankings" don't really help. To some extent the "Excession LTD Website" falls in the same category, though the reference is used very generally. The "Gighit" link now redirects elsewhere so perhaps that link needs updating.
    • Completely a personal preference, but I find footnoted section headers look slightly odd.
    • Nice images, all but one free and a fair use rationale listed on the other, and nice mix of some on left and some on the right of the page.
    • Gimmetrow 04:38, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment I would say that that all statments came from sources, but some refs were depreciated through copy editing by multiple editors; this can be fixed with a little house keeping. The citation templates however, need to be standardised. + Ceoil 04:48, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I will fix the links in question. Some of the links seem to have changed since I last checked. Wickethewok 04:52, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - I corrected all of the referencing issues brought up and am currently double-checking all the other references to make sure they haven't changed in the past couple months either. One small note regarding the Newsweek reference: I believe "DJ Sasha on Dance Music's Glowstick Culture" is the correct title as this is the title listed when Newsweek links to it from other articles. Also, note that a couple links to Sasha's website and the Excession Agency website can't be linked directly, as they use Flash interfaces. Another also, DJMag redid their site and haven't bothered to re-add some of the old results, so I removed some info and refs to it. It is also displayed as the title at the top as the webpage title. Thanks! Wickethewok 06:22, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - I went through and checked all the URLs, making sure they provided the correct information, and replacing a few broken ones. I also added a footnote regarding Sasha being a nickname for Alexander. Wickethewok 07:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Thank you for your support, Sandy! Wickethewok 20:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.