Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ralph Bakshi/archive3

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 16:18, 9 February 2008.

[edit] Ralph Bakshi

previous FAC

previous FAC (02:20, 1 February 2008)

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I am renominating this article once more that this article was not given enough notice to the point where it would have a serious chance at FA status. The two reviewers that opposed the previous FAC commented on flaws that had, in fact, been addressed by the time the article was nominated, and the FAC ended sooner than it should have. I really feel that this should be a FA. It is well referenced, citing valid printed and online sources, it is well written, and there are no significant problems for it to not be featured at this time. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 04:49, 3 February 2008 (UTC))

• Nominate and Support. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 04:49, 3 February 2008 (UTC))

• Comments
  • "Bakshi first attended the Thomas Jefferson High School then was transferred to the School of Industrial Art..." Are you sure its "the" Thomas Jefferson High School? You need to disambiguate Thomas Jefferson High School. Why the passive "was transferred"? Begs the question: who transferred him and why?

    From the 1981 NYTimes interview: I was a street guy - you know, black satin jacket, stickball, hanging out. From the time I was a little kid I always loved comics. But I never figured I could be an artist or a cartoonist until I was in high school. Then it hit me, and I transferred from Thomas Jefferson High School to Industrial Arts. So a quote here, adding how he had an epiphany and realized he didn't have to wait until after high school to be an artist or a cartoonist; he could act immediately upon these dreams. I believe it is the Thomas Jefferson H.S. in Brooklyn, NY he went to unless there are other Thomas Jefferson H.S. nearby? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BillDeanCarter (talk • contribs) 23:17, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

  • "By age 25, he was directing these shows..." What shows? You refer to characters in the previous sentence but no shows.
    • Fixed. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 01:39, 6 February 2008 (UTC))
  • "At 28, he saved the jobs of the studio when he attended a series pitch meeting with the CBS Television Network, and improvised a superhero spoof cartoon proposal called The Mighty Heroes when the network rejected all the studio's prepared ones as well as directing it." Long, awkward sentence. (Try reading it out loud). Needs restructuring for better flow and logic. Unclear what is meant by "he saved the jobs of the studio".
    • Fixed. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 01:39, 6 February 2008 (UTC))
  • "So he paid for the film's completion out of his own pocket..." Fragment
    • Fixed. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 01:39, 6 February 2008 (UTC))
  • ""animated characters interacting with real-world people" Citation for this quotation?
    • It's not a quotation, and did not need a citation. Rewritten for clarity. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 01:39, 6 February 2008 (UTC))
  • The prose sometimes veers into informal, un-encyclopedic language at times. For example: "always coming up with new ideas", "really thought", "rip-off".
  • "Bakshi is quoted as saying that" Wordy, passive attribution. Try something along the lines of ""A lot of people got freaked out," recalled Bakshi. "The people in charge...""
  • In general, the text needs a polish to rid repetition and redundancy. BuddingJournalist 06:42, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose: I previously opposed this article for several reasons and, no, not all of the issues had been addressed or have yet to be addressed. The article has still yet to receive a proper copy-edit and is poorly written in spots. I still suggest waiting to nominate this until after a thorough copy-edit has been done. María (habla conmigo) 14:58, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose. As in the previous FAC, I oppose on the grounds of comprehensiveness. A biography of the subject (the first comprehensive biography of the subject) is being published in April, and this FAC is premature until after the information in that book has been considered. Karanacs (talk) 20:16, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Another leftover issue:
    • The image of Fire and Ice directing is not properly used in the article. Under Fair Use, the article needs to be discussing what is going on in the picture, and it does not. Either that text needs to be added, or the image should be removed from the article. Karanacs (talk) 20:57, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
      • As discussed in the previous FAC, it IS properly used in the article. The section discusses Bakshi's career during the 1980s. This image is represented by a behind-the-scenes image from the production of a film he directed in 1983. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 01:25, 6 February 2008 (UTC))
        • I don't agree with that. His directing style in this film in particular would need to be discussed for that image to be fair use. Karanacs (talk) 15:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

• CommentOppose I will do a copy-edit myself. This was a pretty interesting article when I read it last year. I don't think the nominator should have to wait until April to have this article featured if it is comprehensive based on what is known currently. It might even be a good idea to feature Ralph Bakshi on the main page on the book's publication date.-BillDeanCarter (talk) 20:45, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
• Bakshi went to work for Terrytoons Animation Studio (11, 12) in New Rochelle as a cell polisher, graduating to cell painting. Practicing nights and weekends he quickly became an inker, and then directly to animator (by claiming an empty desk on the animators floor and, claiming that he was promoted to animator, (13) asked for scenes to animate for characters such as Mighty Mouse, Heckle & Jeckle, (14) Deputy Dawg, Foofle & Lariat Sam. By 25 he was directing these shows as well as Sad Cat, James Hound and others. This is too direct a copy of the biography on Bakshi's web site. Are there other articles that talk about this information?
• At 28, he saved the jobs of the studio when he attended a series pitch meeting with the CBS Television Network, and improvised a superhero spoof cartoon proposal called The Mighty Heroes when the network rejected all the studio's prepared ones as well as directing it. The reference you use for this information doesn't mention any of these pitch meetings with CBS.
  • Removed. Was added by an anonymous editor without adding source info. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 02:27, 6 February 2008 (UTC))
• Have you found every existing interview with Bakshi and article about him? Have you gone through the Google News archives as far back as possible, and maybe bought a couple archived articles from newspapers? I don't subscribe to the wiki-philosophy that every article has to be accessible for free, or within five clicks of the mouse.

This article does need work but it should stay here for a while longer as it would be a nice addition to Wikipedia's featured content.-BillDeanCarter (talk) 23:01, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

It seems to me that Ibaranoff could do two things: (a) get a hold of all possible sources and provide a competing biography of Bakshi to the upcoming biography or (b) wait until the upcoming biography is published, digest it, rewrite the Wikipedia article, and then a month or two later come here to FAC. I can't see (a) happening just because either you don't have all possible sources or the sources don't provide enough info. So do (b) and you'll have something excellent that will help promote the upcoming book on Bakshi.-BillDeanCarter (talk) 10:42, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

• Note; Closing for the second time this month, with multiple opposes. Please allow sufficient time to address these issues and work with the Opposers before re-nominating. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:18, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.