Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Jackie Chan

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 15:06, 14 August 2007.

[edit] Jackie Chan

Self-nomination: Jackie Chan is currently a good article. The biography now comprehensively covers his acting career. It also states his motivations to his choice of roles, and information of his stunts. His actions as a celebrities have been covered from different angles. The article is also sufficiently sourced, so I would like to give it a go at the FAC. If there are any problems with the article, please let me know.--Kylohk 13:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Fix reference no. 8 DSachan 13:56, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Fixed. Looks like the person who added it forgot the capital.--Kylohk 14:09, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment. Discography list stands out in the middle, move it to the bottom and/or split to a separate article. The source of the list is also unclear.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  20:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
    • The opening paragraph of the discography has now been moved to the 2nd paragraph of the Image and Celebrity Status. The list is temporarily commented out.--Kylohk 04:32, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
      • Temporarily commenting out is not a good solution. The article needs a pernament one before progressing any further.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  19:42, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
        • i have readded the discography towards the end of the page, and added sources for all his albums listed. Check it out and please feedback thanks.--DaliusButkus 01:07, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
          • Having read the U2 discography, I think it will be a good idea to separate it into its own article per the format of that one above.--Kylohk 04:34, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
            • ok glad that part is settled, also i have added a scrolling box to the references to keep the page neat.--DaliusButkus 07:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

*Fixes needed - looks good. Certainly comprehensive and fulfils other criteria though prose is trickiest and there are a couple of things:

    • Chan is one of the best known names in kung fu and action movies worldwide for... - the items after this should be either all nouns or all verbs. As is the last is a verb after several nouns.

I'll keep looking. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:34, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

  • The verb has now been changed to "his innovative stunts", then all 4 items are nouns.--Kylohk 02:30, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
For the next decade, Chan trained rigorously, excelling at martial arts and acrobatics. - probably best to flip the clauses to make one less comma, thus "Chan trained rigorously for the next decade, excelling at martial arts and acrobatics" (?)
Chan moved back to Canberra in 1976, attended Dickson College briefly and.. ungainly, try "Chan moved back to Canberra in 1976, where he briefly attended Dickson College and.."
...and worked on building sites within the Australian Capital Territory. During his time as a construction worker, a fellow worker named Jack took him under his wing.. - 3 mentions of construction work here could be streamlined to: "..and worked as a construction worker on building sites within the Australian Capital Territory. A fellow worker named Jack took him under his wing, .."
Having returned to Hong Kong, Jackie Chan joined... -try "Jackie Chan soon returned to Hong Kong and teamed up with..."
The shooting of the film had its dangers, with one of Chan's teeth accidentally kicked out.. - I like semicolons; they may make it sounds smoother - try "The shooting of the film had its dangers; one of Chan's teeth was accidentally kicked out"
In spite of being largely ignored... - try "Despite being largely ignored"
In the 1990s, Chan regained his Hollywood ambitions, whilst continuing to make films... - try "Chan regained his Hollywood ambitions in the 1990s, while continuing to make films "
Early on, he refused two offers to --> "He refused two early offers to.."
In 1995, he finally succeeded in capturing the North American market ---> "He finally succeeded in capturing the North American market in 1995"
In 1983, Chan officially formed the Jackie Chan Stunt Team --> "Chan officially formed the Jackie Chan Stunt Team in 1983"

OK, the main fault appears to be choppy sentences with little clauses as outlined above. Fix these (maybe there are a couple Ive missed) and yer over the line.....cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Those sentences have been changed as per your suggestions. Thanks for the ideas.--Kylohk 10:41, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Support - there. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:46, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose Needs copy-editting by someone unfamiliar with the article. For example, these sentences could be better phrased, "The two years following the success of Project A were marked by frequent collaboration with Sammo Hung and Yuen Biao, with the three appearing in Wheels on Meals and the original Lucky Stars trilogy between 1983 and 1985." "Chan holds the Guinness World Record for "Most Stunts By A Living Actor", with the award emphasising that "no insurance company will underwrite Chan's productions, in which he performs all his own stunts". Epbr123 17:50, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Support And are you the one to say that no one unfamiliar with the article has edited it before? That argument makes no sense, think about it, if it meets Fac criteria, it really doesn't matter who edited the article before. As far as rephrasing those sentence you refered to above, perhaps a suggestion would be good? else i see no problems with it, in fact the part from the guinness world record is a direct quote off the book. A direct oppose in very incondusive for the efforts those might have put in to get this article up to standards in the first place, perhaps a suggestion for improvement like user Casliber above would be more constructive? Also direct oppose due to differing view about rephrasing of sentences, or something as irrelevant as the copy edit part, really makes it hard to justify what you are opposing, or to determine what could be made to improve the article. Please go into more details so as to justify what exactly you are opposing to.--DaliusButkus 18:21, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Very well, the former sentence has been changed to simply "Chan then co-starred with Sammo Hung and Yuen Biao in Wheels on Meals and the original Lucky Stars trilogy." The latter changed to Chan holds the Guinness World Record for "Most Stunts By A Living Actor", which emphasises "no insurance company will underwrite Chan's productions, in which he performs all his own stunts". Anything else?--Kylohk 00:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
      • Yes. Those were just examples. I asked for a copy-edit by someone unfamiliar with the article. Epbr123 11:27, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
        • Then could you please elaborate why it needs copyediting?--Kylohk 12:49, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
          • Ok, I'll give you one more example, "As a well-respected figure of the Hong Kong entertainment industry and a UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador, he is often a leader in speaking up for conservation, against animal abuse, as well as promoting disaster relief efforts for flooding in mainland China and the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami." I'm not going to copy-edit the article for you, I'm afraid. Epbr123 15:49, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
            • All right, I've moved UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador to the sentence with the word "philantropist". The things he has campaigned for have been rewritten in present prefect tense. I'll copy edit the article myself. Although I will ask for others to copyedit it, I can't be reassured of a reasonably fast response time, hence more examples are needed, possibly almost every problem.--Kylohk 00:35, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
            • Do you have any more examples to give? If you would list them all out at once instead of dangling them out the way you did, it would be better for people to work with. A more positive corroboration would suit everyone best, i believe, whether you are in support of this article or not.--DaliusButkus 21:02, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
              • Anyway, I did another run-through of the article this morning, made some more corrections and removed some redundant sentences. Just another brush up. Hopefully most, if not all, of the prose have been improved.--Kylohk 03:51, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
                • Still some redundancies, eg., "all of the dangerous stuntwork", "saw Chan star in a number of sequels including". Use "most" instead of "the majority of", and use "before" instead of "prior to". I think this is ungrammatical "All students took on the family name of their sifu, with Chan becoming Yuen Lo.". There's overlinking of common words such as charity and fingers. IMDB is an unreliable source as anyone can edit it. Youtube can't be used as a source due to copyright problems. This could be better "Furthermore, he was featured in an advertisement promoting civic awareness where he gave a short explanation of the March of the Volunteers, the national anthem of the People's Republic of China, before it is played." Epbr123 09:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
                  • The wording of the article has been changed accordingly, the two incompatiable sources have been removed (along with one sentence. I've attempted to change the two problematic sentences mentioned above and removed some redundant links. Let me go through it once more.--Kylohk 11:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
                    • I still urge you to find a copy-editor. "and has joined forces with Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca in encouraging people, especially Asians, to join the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department in a public service announcement" - this sounds as though the sheriff wanted Asians to appear in a public service announcement. Epbr123 09:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
                      • Well, I've added a message in WikiProject Hong Kong, to ask for others to do some copyediting. And, well, here's a funny thing, I asked one of my parents to read the article with me so as to get another outside opinion on the grammar and so on. Anyway, I am going to take care of that problem right now. (I admit I can have a twisted perception of prose at times.)--Kylohk 10:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
                        • Oh, and now, kudos to MSJapan of the LoCE for copyediting the article for me while I was fast asleep.--Kylohk 01:23, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
                          • Oppose withdrawn. Epbr123 11:19, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Support - The article has improved much since the FAC started, and to a point that it is FA quality. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 09:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose Much improved—1a. Please find a collaborator from the edit-history pages of similar articles. I've copy-edited the top to indicate the extent of the changes required throughout. Please contact me when lots of work has been done on the writing. Tony 11:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
    • I've asked the WikiProject Hong Kong again, and they've done another thorough copyedit on the article. So, what do you think?--Kylohk 15:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Oppose-1c. Cleanup of sourcing needed to conform with WP:V and WP:RS. As an example, hard data (gross revenues) is cited to a webpost of a film review from a fellow named "Paul". Nice. "The three co-starred together for the first time in 1983 in Project A, which grossed HK$19,323,000 and won the Best Action Choreography Award at the third annual Hong Kong Film Awards".(cite web | first = Paul | title = Project A Review | work = Film review | publisher = Hong Kong Cinema | url = http://www.hkcinema.co.uk/Reviews/projecta.html ) Sorry, this is not good sourcing for any article, much less an FA. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:11, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

    • I've deleted the gross figure, since I couldn't find any RS for that, as for the awards, I replaced the ref with a LoveHKFilm article. (Site information is here.)--Kylohk 06:24, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Sorry, continued oppose—still a very large number of sources of dubious reliability. These are from the bottom sections of the article only:

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:00, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Fixes have been made to the sources as follows:
The remaining sources (the ones from Kung Fu Cinema) and the various film reviews seem to be reliable. (At least I think they are)--Kylohk 03:23, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Oppose withdrawn; thanks for the speedy adjustments! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Looks like most of the objections are about the prose. THe article has been copyedited a number of times. Can someone come in and check whether it is fine as of now, please?--Kylohk 23:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Looks like all opposes regarding prose are withdrawn.--Kylohk 00:47, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.