Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Himachal Pradesh/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 17:31, 25 May 2007.

[edit] Himachal Pradesh

I think the page meets all the required FAC criteria. the page is well-refered as well as ample stuff is attached to the page. the page was rated as B-class article but the page has been rewritten under the scope of Himachal Pradesh workgroup (parentage- WP:India). check out the history of the page. Sushant gupta (talk · contribs) 10:52, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

The page is currently not in a position to meet FA. Try to add referene to the [citations needed] tag added by me. Moreover better prose is needed. Amartyabag TALK2ME 11:18, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Hey Amartya, I have cited all the statements you tagged. Now is it fine. Sushant gupta (talk · contribs) 05:08, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

* OPPOSE: Some of my comments on the article
1. almost at the extremity of the large, densely populated part of Asia influenced by the southwest monsoon. - what does this sentence mean? is that a description of india? if so, it is pretty shallow.
2. all the notes on borders in the lead para, can they not come after we describe the state?
3. Himachal has got significant service class and is one of highest per capita income states in India. - need re-wording
4. a lot of sentences need re-wording. Example - Some evidences have been found that nearly 2 million years ago man lived in the foothills of Himachal Pradesh.Bangana valley of Kangra, Sirsa valley of Nalagarh and Markanda valley of Sirmour are found to be the places where prehistoric man used to live.
the article needs a lot more work, evident from the fact tags added by Amartyabag. the same needs to be resolved before the article can be assessed at FAC. Kalyan 12:54, 19 May 2007 (UTC). Please see my comments in the new section. Consider these comments as closed. Kalyan 18:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Oppose per Kalyan; {{Fact}} everywhere as well as the prose issues. -- Phoenix2 (talk, review) 17:11, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
    • What about the tables and prose corrections the others mentioned? -- Phoenix2 (talk, review) 15:42, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose Citations absent, district map needed (svg format), unnecessary tables should be removed, more pertinent images found (the one in history is an example of one that should be replaced), For more details on this topic, see Geography of Himachal Pradesh convert to {[tl|main}} (Main article:); Flora and Fauna small case for fauna; remove bold text in subdivisions; MoS for units (km, mi, m, etc) not followed See Climate of India for formatting units; thumb images without setting default pixel size. Fix this for now. =Nichalp «Talk»= 17:16, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
  • reply in support
  1. Citation done.
  2. {{details}} has been converted to {{Main}}
  3. What do you mean by unnecesary tables? Sushant gupta (talk · contribs) 12:41, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
  4. the article also follows MoS. Kindly justify your statements. Sushant gupta (talk · contribs) 02:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Now there are no citation needed tags. Sushant gupta (talk · contribs) 08:31, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Removing the citation needed tags (while perhaps adding one or two refs) does not remove the need for the refs. Universe=atom•Talk•Contributions• 14:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Actually, sorry. I did not really go through the history of the article; so, I am not sure if you you added refs? If you did, please tell me and perhaps I will remove my oppose. Thank you, Universe=atom•Talk•Contributions• 14:54, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Suggestion Performing a Peer Review will allow editors not familiar with the topic to address many of the concerns raised above in more detail. GizzaChat © 09:12, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment:I would change where it says for more details on this topic {{details}} at the end of each section to the template {{main}} under the heading of each section. Max Naylor 09:38, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
No need, I have done it. Sushant gupta (talk · contribs) 12:35, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now based on prose issues. For example, here are some comments on the article lead itself:
    1. Etymology of Himachal is explained, but Pradesh is not. Why ?
    2. See WP:UNITS with regards to use of non-breaking spaces with units such as km2
    3. Sentence sequence in lead does not appear to follow any logical structure. For example:
      1. First paragraph talks about borders with Jammu, Kashmir, China, and the second paragraph then repeats the information and adds Punjab, Haryana etc.
      2. Third paragraph names the 5 main rivers, and the resultant abundant hyroelectric power. But between these two connected ideas a sentence about the state's per capita income is inserted.
      3. The lead seems to concentrate on the state's geography without even mentioning anything about its history, population, culture etc.
    4. Several punctuation errors/ poor prose in lead itself:
      1. "almost at the extremity of the large, densely populated part of Asia influenced by the southwest monsoon." Hard to understand and unnecessary detail for lead, let alone first sentence.

*## "All these borders, except ..., are formed by extremely high passes that are snowbound except ..." OK technically, but not compelling prose. And, again it's unnecessary detail at this point.

      1. "Himachal Pradesh, spread over 55,673 km². is bordered ..." (misplaced full stop)
      2. "The state capital is Shimla (formerly British India's summer capital under the name Simla), other major ..." (use semi-colon instead of comma or appropriate conjunction).
      3. "Himachal Pradesh has five major rivers. These are the Sutlej, Ravi, Chenab, Beas and Yamuna." (combine stubby sentences into one).
      4. "other major towns are Solan,..." : use of are (instead of, say, "include") indicates that the list is exhaustive. Is that true ?
      5. "Moreover, Himachal has ...". Moreover is redundant (see Tony's exercises).
The above list is just a set of examples from the lead alone. I would highly recommend that the article be professionally copyedited (see WP:LoCE) and peer-reviewed before being resubmitted as a FAC. Abecedare 03:08, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
I am trying to improve it. Sushant gupta (talk · contribs) 04:28, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Sushant. Your work on the page is appreciated. Abecedare 04:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Another source that is used extensively (http://himachal.nic.in/tour/history.htm) may be OK for some straightforward, non-controversial claims, but it surely does not qualify as a scholarly source for the proto-history of Himachal Pradesh dating back 2 million years !
I think the sources used by the article would have to be over-hauled before the article can attain the FA status. I don't think, mere prose/stylistic fixes that have been the subject of most of the reviews above (including mine) will not be sufficient. Abecedare 05:13, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
i have not stated controversial statements. Sushant gupta (talk · contribs) 10:59, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
One more thing statements written in the article are not violating WP:NPOV and can you qoute any such contreversial statement in the article. Sushant gupta (talk · contribs) 09:41, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Reply in support Kindly see-
  1. I have re-written the leading paragraph. Kindly justify all your comments regarding the leading para.
  2. the article follows WP:MoS.
  3. source has been properly cited.

anything else? Sushant gupta (talk · contribs) 10:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

The issue is not the point of view but verifiability, which requires that reputable, and preferable scholarly, sources be used. Tourism website are not reputed for their fact-checking and editorial oversight and none of the above listed websites qualify as authoritative published sources on Himachal Pradesh.
The lead is improved although it, and the rest of the article, still needs thorough copyediting. But IMO those stylistic and grammar details are secondary to the sourcing, so I'll refrain from detailing those issues till the reference quality has been brought up to FA expectations. Abecedare 15:02, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: This article can still be improved, in the following ways:
    • In the "Geography" section, the words "meters" and "feet" are mentioned 13 times near each other. Each of them is wikilinked, which is contrary to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links).
    • The links to main articles from section are at the bottom of the section, instead of at the top, where they usually are.
    • This is the first sentence of the article: Himachal Pradesh pronunciation (help·info) (Hindi: हिमाचल प्रदेश, IPA: [/hɪmaːtʃəl prəd̪eːʃ/]), is a state in the north-west of India. Himachal Pradesh, spread over 55,673 square kilometres (21,495 mi²). is bordered by Jammu and Kashmir on north, Punjab on west and south-west, Haryana on south, Uttarakhand on south-east and by Tibet on the east. (first sentence of article) I think the mistake(s) is(/are:depends on your perspective) obvious.
    • In 1950 Himachal was declared as the union territory but After State of Himachal Pradesh Act 1971 Himchal emerged as the 18th state of Indian Union. (somewhere in introduction) I think the several mistakes are obvious again: Comma required after In 1950; territory; 1971. An of required after Act (probably). Himachal is misspelled. And all of these in one sentence in introduction?
    • There are no empty lines between paragraphs in the introduction.

So, with mistakes like these (two of which are in introduction), my vote is still Oppose. Universe=atom•Talk•Contributions• 14:48, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article - Complete Review by Kalyan

OPPOSE: Generic observation - while there are multiple daughter pages, the content of these pages are very similar to this page. if someone else agrees with my assessment, i would request the author to consider bringing the remaining data from these pages into the main article itself as the main article lacks in coverage of topics. Specific comments include

  • Does Himachal mean "Land of snowy mountain" or does Himachal pradesh mean "Land of snowy mountain"* Your first reference tags to http://www.himachalpradesh.us/ In the bottom of the page, it states All the material, graphics, photographs or buttons used on this website are the exclusive property of http://www.himachalpradesh.us and cannot be reused anywhere in any form without the written permission from the author. Since you are refering to the material from the website, do you have the permission to use the material?

* In the link, you state that the publisher is www.dreaminfosoft.com. But going to the site does not provide any reference to Himachal pradesh and is a web solution and hosting company. Use www.himachalpradesh.us instead of www.dreaminfosoft.com in the links.

  • Please have a one line sentence as para in the lead "In 1950 Himachal was declared ..."
  • Copyedit - replace "After" by "after" in the middle of the above statement
  • "Himachal is out those states in India which has got one of the highest per capita income." What does this mean? re-phrase sentence
  • In the lead it states that "In 1950 Himachal was declared as the union territory" whereas in Section 1 - History, it states - "Himachal became a part C state on 26th January, 1950 with ..." and "Himachal Pradesh became Union Territory on 1st November, 1956...." Please reconcile these 2 statements

* What is the need for the logo of 4 gorkha rifles in history section. If required, please align to right.* The entire para "The revolt of 1857 or first Indian war of independence resulted ...." can be summarized into one sentence.

  • When i went to Manali, there was a place called "Naggar" or "Nagar" that had a palace (now a hotel). It was mentioned to me that this village was the capital of ancient himachal. can you please comment on it?
  • what is the mean elevation of the state? the reason for this is that the elevation range is very varied (350-6000). so is most of it near 300 range or near 6000 range?
  • please remove link for ft when mentioned everywhere. Use internal wiki links only once, when using for the first time. The same goes to all the states mentioned in the Geography section. In fact, please copyedit the entire page to remove wikilinks where used more than once.
  • This sentence needs re-edit - "The state has areas like Dharamshala ...." as "Rainfall in Himachal Pradesh is varied with heavy rainfall regions like Dharmasala receiving x cms of annual rainfall while dry areas like Lahaul receives less than x cms of annual rainfall ...."
  • "Summer lasts from mid April till the end ..." How many seasons does HP experience? Can you move it there.
Still Unclear. also article states that there are 3 seasons - hot weather (summer?), cold weather (winter?) and rainy. summer is mid-april to mid june, winter is mid-nov to mid-march. so how about mid-march to mid-april?mid-june to mid-nov? so aren't there 4 seasons? Pls address. Comments stands. Kalyan 18:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Snowfall and rainfall needs to be discussed in the same para (or in next to each other lines)
  • "...it is the longest and severest season" .. POV statement. Please re-word/remove or provide evidence
  • "The drainage system of Himachal is very complex." - POV statement. Please remove/re-word
  • As i learn from the table, HP consists of 4 regions - Shivalik, Mid-hill, High-hill and Trance-Himalayan. Please state this at the beginning of the para as well as provide distinct identity for each of these 4 regions.

* Move "main article - Geography ..." to the beginning of the para (or maintain uniformity across all sections) * "...valleys of the region are refreshing green" ... remove refreshingly ... could be considered as POV

Additional comment - when i checked the flora and fauna wikipage, there were 12 names under sancturies and parks whereas in here, it is mentioned as 11. Please correct. Kalyan 18:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
  • What is the source of "Gross State Domestic Product at Current Prices" table. Please add reference
Comment still not addressed. Kalyan 18:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

* In economy section, please the current per-capita income figure for the state.

  • "It has been estimated that about 20,300MW of hydel power can be generated in the State by constructing various major, medium, small and mini/micro hydel projects on the five river basins" - add reference for the statement. How much energy is currently being generated?
Comment still not addressed. Kalyan 18:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

* "The state government has been giving the highest priority for its development, as hydel generation can not only meet the growing need of power for industry, agriculture and rural electrification, but can also be the biggest source of income to the state by way of sale of electricity to the neighbouring states." - Remove sentence (unless it is a quote from the state CM/Gov * "Himachal Pradesh is an almost completely mountainous state in Northern India...." What does this para intend to communicate. If required summarize it in one sentence * Please provide data on "multilingual" aspect of HP. Add a few local dialects in the para

Additional comment: Avoid having 1-sentence paras.
Additional comment:"As compared to other states in north India non vegetarian is more preferred." - what does this sentence mean? what is the reference point here?
  • "The handicraft that come out ..." needs re-work* In fact, the entire "Culture section" needs copyedit work''
Comment still stands.
  • Please expand on the government section? Does the state have 2 houses or only one house? name some of the prominent politicians from the state who have made an influence in national politics? some of the popular CMs of HP? the longest reigning CM?
Comment still stands. Kalyan 18:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
  • The subdivisions section can be clubbed with the politics section with the 12 districts categorized in the four regions

* "The geography of Himachal presents considerable challenge to the development of transport infrastructure. Nevertheless, the state has made significant progress in road connectivity in the last few decades." - reword

Original comment still stands. Kalyan 18:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
  • "Himachal at present has the highest road density among all the hill states of India" - reference required
  • "Himachal Pradesh is not very well connected by railways as it is not a easy task to construct railway " and "It is difficult to construct and maintain new roads in the hilly areas of the state." are repeat of the first sentence in the section. hence they are redundant - please re-word appropriately
  • The culture and demographics section data can be clubbed into one section.
  • "The state was also the summer capital of India during the British colonial rule.[20] Hence, the standard of education in the state has reached to a considerably high level as compared to other states" what is the connection between the two statements?
    Please revert back to me in case of any questions. Kalyan 18:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
A request - when you address the comments above, can you please do a short write-up on how the comments were addressed. Kalyan 18:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose as above.

Either divide the GDP figures by 10 or replace the word crores with millions of Indian Rupees. Why is this logo included in History section? Are they the ruling party?

There are plenty of basic grammatical errors. Needs a full-fledged proof reading session. Anwar 18:50, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Comment To the nominator: please do not strike out opinions/objections by reviewers. If the reviewer is satisfied with the works done, (s)he will strike out the objections, and/or, write support. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 02:49, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.