Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Gregory of Nazianzus

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 21:28, 30 August 2007.

[edit] Gregory of Nazianzus

Self-nomination. This article, currently GA-status, has been improved and expanded this year. It draws from several respected academic sources and is reasonably complete in its treatment of Gregory. I'm willing make what changes are needed to get consensus for FA-status. Thanks. Majoreditor 03:26, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

• Support as nom. Majoreditor 14:00, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
• Support A well presented scholarly article. I'd like more secular openion, but its a fine read. Ceoil 12:19, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
• Comments I've fixed a few cases of spaces between punctuation and ref - you may wish to run through and check for more. J.Winklethorpe ^talk 23:09, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

(Expanding on first comment) An enjoyable read; I found it generally accessable, which is an achievement in itself for a 4th century historical figure. However:

• I found the lead much heavier going than the rest of the article: "the patristic age","establishing the paradigm of Byzantine theologians and church officials". I'm afraid that even after reading the rest of the article, I'm not sure what either of those means. In addition, I would note that half the main article is biography; if the lead is summarising the main article, then biographical details ought to get at least a few sentences, if not a paragraph, of the lead.
• There's a tendency towards long sentences with minimal punctuation here and there - "The two friends then entered a period of close fraternal cooperation as they participated in a great rhetorical contest of the Caesarean church precipitated by the arrival of accomplished Arian theologians and rhetors." - which I think could be looked at to further improve the readability of the (already good) prose.
• "From his deathbed, Basil reminded them of Gregory's capabilities and likely recommended his friend to champion the trinitarian cause in Constantinople." comes in the section after Basil's death is first reported, which made me do a double-take.
• "Gregory used this occasion to deliver a final address (Or. 42) and then departed." I think Or 42 needs explaining, expanding, or wikilinking, as I can't tell what it is (apart from some term for his final address - Or for Oratory?)
• I think some expansion in the Influence section on his modern relevance could be useful - the final sentance gives some, but if you're not knowledgable about Christianity, I'm not sure how much that tells you.
• Is there any information on his being made a saint?
• Further Reading is enormous. Personally I'd prefer a much smaller list of the best extension reading.
• I'm not very well up on copyright, but I'm wondering if the notice on the main image is correct? Obviously the photo is someone's work and they can release it, but shouldn't the image photographed have a rationale as well? If the fresco is as old as it looks, then I imagine providing one is easy.

Feel free to disagree with any of the above; a number of them are fairly subjective. J.Winklethorpe ^talk 19:20, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

• Comment could use a little wikilinking. E.g. in the lead: "Gregory is widely considered the most accomplished rhetorical stylist of the patristic age. As a classically trained speaker and philosopher he infused Hellenism into the early church, establishing the paradigm of Byzantine theologians and church officials." That's quite a bunch of terms that could be wikified. Chensiyuan 15:55, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks for the comments. You're raising some good questions. I'll start to address them over the next few days. Majoreditor 21:09, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

• Support/Comments Most of the article is written extremely well, and also helps to give an extensive description of Gregory to someone who would have no prior knowledge of the man; eg myself, an Egyptian Muslim. A couple of tweaks I'd like to suggest though, once they're modified I'll gladly change my vote to strong support.

• 1- The sentence about Emperor Valens dying is short and arupt in comparison to the rest of the article, Maybe fusing it with the nest sentence would keep the flow smooth, such as "Following the death of Emperor Valens in 387, the succession of Theodosius I. . .etc" perhaps?
• 2- "Throughout his life Gregory faced stark choices. Should he pursue studies as a rhetor or philosopher? Would a monastic life be more appropriate than public ministry? Was it better to blaze his own path or follow the course mapped for him by his father and Basil? Gregory's writings illuminate the conflicts which both tormented and motivated him. Biographers suggest that it was this dialectic which defined him, forged his character and inspired his search for meaning and truth."

This paragraph is a bit promotional and/or philosophical, not to mention unneccessary. If this is a direct quote from Ruether then it should be stated as such in the text, although even that may not deem it beneficially informative in any way. If it is original text I recommend it be removed.

• 3- I sort of agree with Winklethorpe about the Further Reading list being excessively large, although it's not that big a deal to me.
• 4- I definitely agree about a part describing the details of his ascension to sainthood, as in when it happened and which pope oversaw the proceedings. Not only is it important for informational reasons (and I'm personally very interested to know these details), it also solves the suggestion by Winklethorpe about expanding the Influence section and giving it the final touch, as I think that's the only section that could use some polishing.
• Other than these, a very good job indeed. Swimforestswim 10:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.