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I'm nominating this article for featured article because it has been stable as a WP:GA for some time and is extensive enough and interesting enough to be a WP:FA. This is one of many Michigan Wolverines football bio articles that I worked on with User:Cbl62. He did most of the research on this one and my contributions were more organizational. TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:54, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Comments - A lot more information than I would expect for an early 1900s college football player. Here are some issues I found during my first run-through.
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- I worked with User:Cbl62 on a lot of Michigan Football players and he repeatedly found endless information on older players. I still wish I could get him to work on two newer guys (Thomas Wilcher and Thom Darden). He says he unsubscribed to his information service however so I don't think I can look forward to his magic on those guys.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:23, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
"He eventually entered a long career in the insurance industry." I would change the order to "He eventually entered the insurance industry, where he had a long career." I don't like my own ending, so I'm sure you can improve it.
- Is the College Football Foundation the same as the National Football Foundation?
Childhood: Is his mother's name known? I'd like to see it if possible, but it can't be held against the article if unknown.
- Concerns that Schulz was a ringer: Is "many decried the increasing recruitment of ringers" cited by the following source?
- I don't have access to the source and I don't think Cbl62 does anymore either. The paragraph seems adequately sourced, but if you want to be certain on the attribution for each sentence that may not be possible because as I said before Cbl62 is no longer subscribing to the information source he used for this article.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:39, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Were hyphens for "student athlete" in use a century ago?
I'd like to see it made clear that Willie Heston came from Stanford.
"Schulz was factory worker in an Indiana steel mill" Grammar.
- Is "swell time" a quote? If so, it needs a reference.
Freshman year: Don't need another Willie Heston link.
1905 season: Why is stardom not capitalized?
When these are done, I'll come back to read more of it. Giants2008 (talk) 18:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
- I'm back for more, as I promised. I left a note above, so check that out.
- I don't think you can find a source for this, but I'd like to know how he returned to Michigan after 1906, especially since one report says he was basically kicked out. Later the article implies that Michigan's fortunes took a turn for the worse, so I'm sure that was a factor.
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- I am not able to find any additional information to buffer the article. User:Cbl62 said he would get to this over the weekend. I don't know what he knows.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:52, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- This seems quite heavy on quotes. I presume that the sources avaliable dictated this, but paraphrasing a couple wouldn't hurt.
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- When I work with Cbl62 he finds quotes and inserts them. I could paraphrase things, but I do not know the context of the surrounding paragraphs in the articles so I just work with his quotes. Do you want me to paraphrase his selection of quotes from articles I have not read?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:56, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- In some of the more modern player articles I am able to balance out his quoting with more paraphrased contributions and greater emphasis on statistics. I work with him less on older players because I am unable to balance them out and I don't know how to contribute as effectively. This athlete is so extraordinary an individual that I decided to work along.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- However, it is not clear that there is any policy suggesting heavy quoting is undesirable.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Controversy over eligibility for 1908: "before the making of the rule on freshman ineligibility". This is awkward, so change it to, "before the conference's rule was enacted."
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Comma between "Michigan where"
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"about inaccurate reporting about his age" Change to "of his age".
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I'm not a fan of using "In fact" to rebut material from Schulz's time. Isn't it our job to deal in facts?
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Awards and accolades: Picky, but Century should be in italics, since it was a magazine.
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Another Grantland Rice link.
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Would it be possible to turn these bulleted items into a paragraph of prose, about awards given to him posthumously? Giants2008 (talk) 21:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
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University of Michigan: Comma after "other side of the line and charged".
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Tulane University: Comma after "take charge of the linemen during football season".
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Later life: "including as state agent for an insurance company" Should this be "a state agent"?
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- There's the rest of the minor flaws I could find. Giants2008 (talk) 22:05, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
- Comments regarding images:
- Image:Germany Schulz.jpg: source does not assert a date of first publication. How can we verify the PD-US claim? Why is a purportedly PD image using a non-free rationale for the James B. Craig article?
- Given his year of birth, it seems extremely likely that this publicity photo is from before 1923 when he would have been almost 40 years old. I think it would be pretty reasonable to let this PD claim fly.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:30, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
- No. Verifiability, not truth, is the threshold for inclusion on Wikipedia. Also, merely existing is not the same as being published. Proof is needed that this was first published before 1.1.1923. ЭLСОВВОLД talk 02:41, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
- Image:Ferry.gif: source site indicates this is from a 1924 Wisconsin game and credits the image to "BHL, Ath. Dept.". This contradicts the PD-US license's assertion of first being published before 1.1.1923. ЭLСОВВОLД talk 19:06, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think we can justify fair use here, but we should be able to claim fair use at Ferry Field. I will write up the claim.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:31, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
- I found a free image.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
- Replacement is also problematic. source has date of 1923. As the criterion is publication before 1.1.1923, an image published/created in 1923 does not meet PD-US. Source, additionally, asserts "This image may be protected by copyright law." ЭLСОВВОLД talk 02:58, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Comments
- Current ref 1 "Schulz to play center" is lacking where it was publsihed?
- Same for ref 21. "Schultz Played Star Game against Penn..."
- Current ref 51 is lacking a publisher ( Glamourless Gridirons..) Deadlinked for me too.
- Current ref 60 is lacking where it was published (Mrs Sophia Schulz is dead...)
- Sources look good. Links checked out okay with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 02:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
- Comment I am handicapped by the source being from a newservice that a co-author used. I can not recover any further detail. He is unsubscribed now to my knowledge. He is not becoming active in this discussion, so what you see is what you get.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:31, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Comments
* Rename 'Notes' to 'References'
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- Wikilink dates in references
- For stuff like "date=1907-11", use "date=November 1907" instead because it is not suggested to wikilink this
Gary King (talk) 16:33, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Weak Support - I'm not happy about a couple of the reference issues I described above, but it does seem comprehensive considering the time period. Overall, gets one thumb up from me. Giants2008 (talk) 21:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
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- Kelly hi! 19:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
