Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Frank Barson/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 16:28, 18 November 2007.

[edit] Frank Barson

After reading up on Frank Barson I decided to look him up on wikipedia and found this was the article, I then gradually expanded the article to what it is today. It has recently passed to a GA now I feel it is ready for FA. Thanks Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 14:23, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose -
  • Comprehensiveness. There are large gaps, 91 appearances in eight years at Barnsley and 140 appearances in six years at Manchester United merit far more than a single paragraph each.
    • At Barnsley there was the world war in between? But no info if he fought or what? And at Man U he was injured a lot of the time as it says. I will look for more info but its hard to find!
  • The lead contains some facts which are not present in the body of the article.
    • Y Done
  • There are issues with the prose. Awkward phrasing, run-on sentences and over-use of passive voice are all present to some degree. However, comprehensiveness is the more pressing concern.
    • Ill give it a re-write when I have time.

Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 10:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC) Oldelpaso 15:09, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

• Objection[1a,1b, 1d]-cool article,
• writing is more like sports magazine in parts than an encyclpedia,
  • Reply I'll have a look through and try to re-write bits which sound like that. Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 15:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

• Perhaps due to sources aimed at bias loving football crowd - more reliable non-propagandist sources would be nice. But I can imagine they would be very hard to get.
  • Reply Yes that is one of the problems as there is barley any information that is why I think this article brings together all the information that is out there - but that's me Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 15:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
    • It's not as easy as you make it sound to extract truth from bias.--Keerllston 04:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
• "although it's not known whether he merely decided he wanted the job and nobody dared argue with him. He celebrated his appointment by scoring with a header from thirty yards out" a lot of things are unknown, such as whether Elvis went back in time picked him up, and is now currently partying with him. I note that unknown is not in the article. Why "he celebrated it" -Do you mean that on his next game he scored a header from 30 yards? Hardly seems like a celebration about his new post and instead normal football. Calling it a celebration is very much "sports magazine" tone and not encyclopedic tone.
  • Reply Celebrated - being named captain is something people would celebrate and seen as he didn't score many goals in his career a goal as well as your first game as captain would be something to celebrate. Also a header from 30yards is something that doesn't happen often! Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 15:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
    • I know, but unlike getting drunk is not often celebratory, mostly luck/chance/good pass, it could have had a salutory effect on his enthusiasm and therefore an effect on his playing ability, but the truth is is this statement is clearly not the proper tone.--Keerllston 04:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

"and was so sick of such attention" better would be that he said he was sick of it- I don't think diseases actually develop from that kind of attention.

• "Coaching career" has little information other than his coaching titles. Information on who and how he coached would be nice.
• "Personal life" lacks information on family, relationships, early life, education, and so on.
  • Reply As with both of these its hard to find the information but I will have a look Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 15:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

--Keerllston 15:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Response - I will try to fix the issues brought up when I get back from work! But from a player who played in the early 1900's - Barnsley it is hard to find the info but when I get back I will. Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 15:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

• Object a bit too flamboyant on the newspaper style prose. Also, is "englandfanzine" and "ye olde tree" RS? I'll need convincing. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 23:38, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Reply As with every source there may be some doubt! But things do overlap from the sources so I think they are fairly reliable. As Barson played so long ago when lots of things weren't wrote down as much. I will give the article a full copy-edit. Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 23:42, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Comments from The Rambling Man (talk · contribs)

• OpposeSorry I missed the PR. I can't support but have the following comments.
  • Choppy prose in lead. Could do with flowing out sentences and a copyedit.
  • "hideous challenge" - bit POV.
  • You have Youth clubs in the infobox but no mention of them other than Cammell Lairds.
  • "notorious temper" - OR unless you can cite it.
  • "ugly brawl" - again, is that a direct quote or is it POV?
  • "...very public fall out..." - you need to expand on this.
  • " Barson undoubtedly played a large part in the Villa team during his three seasons at the club, but it is his run-ins with authority for which he is best known." - this sentence just says WP:OR all over it. It needs direct and clear citation (I might have missed it!!)...
  • "His living arrangements caused further controversy on the opening day..." - how?
  • " it's" - not in a FA - "it is"
  • "He celebrated is first game as captain... " typo I assume!
  • "The most famous story..." - original research again...
  • Wikilink cap.
  • Expand his England appearance, against whom, how did it go, if possible...
  • Ensure references are aligned per WP:CITE so directly after punctuation if possible...
  • " injury plagued" - should be hyphenated? A bit colloquial...
  • "Watford player Joe Davison was later sent off in that game with the referee reportedly saying "Off you go, Barson"." - expand and explain.
  • "...Fulham's Temple" - picky, but is that a place or a person?
  • Wikilink FA.
  • "but within five months (October 1929)" - yuck. Flow dates into the prose.
  • "...signed amateur forms for Wigan Borough.[7] He became a professional for Wigan in July 1930 in what was Borough’s last full season as a Football League club..." - this is confusing!

Hope some of my comments help. The Rambling Man 17:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.