Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Emperor Penguin

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 15:47, 5 April 2008.

[edit] Emperor Penguin

I'm nominating this article for featured article because I feel it meets criteria. It is comprehensive, all images are properly licenced, references formatted and the prose has been looked at by a few other editors. Fire away and I'll attempt to address concerns. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:01, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Comments

• The Williams reference is inconsistently formatted. You use "Williams p. 13" once and othertimes you use "Williams (The Penguins) p. 3". (oops. fixed)

  Otherwise, the link checker tool said that the Photographs site had connection issues, but I connected fine to it. Sources look good. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:59, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I figured it was an oversight (grins). There, struck! Ealdgyth - Talk 23:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

• Support I gave the article a copyedit before the FAC and believe that all the issues I had have been addressed. It's a good article that is comprehensive and well-written. Good job, Casliber. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 00:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
• Support I made some minor edits as well as referencing and correcting some material earlier. I have a comment though - He found the species had reached depths of 265 m (869 ft). He also noted a maximum dive period of 18 minutes.[32] Later research revealed a small female had dived to a depth of 535 m (1,755 ft) - While there is something human about being impressed by records, ecologically speaking it is informative to know that average depth dived. In most instances even though they can, once or twice, get down to x, most of them usually feed at y. One depth is mentioned later on, but averages should be posted along with maximum depths. Otherwise grand stuff. Sabine's Sunbird talk 04:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

(Good point. I have put something in on average dives) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:27, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

• Moral support I did the GA review, so I have a potential COI. Suffice it to say that the article is much improved, and RCS has done a good job picking up odd bits and pieces. I commend this article. Jimfbleak (talk) 06:13, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
• Support Comment A few minor points before I support:
  • Ridgen's Penguin (A. ridgeni) is an extinct species of the Late Pliocene... - do we care? This article is about the Emperor Penguin. You need to tie this in to the more general discussion of Aptenodytes' place in the evolutionary timeline.

    tweaked the fossil bit -Personally I think it is relevant as due to its relatedness and age, I reworded it to flow better from previous. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:08, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

  • The raising and exposing the undersides of its flippers increases its body surface... - do you mean raising its flippers or raising the underside of its flippers. How does exposing something increase body surface? Do you mean it increases the body surface exposed to the air?

    I mean raising the flippers and exposing the undersides --> increases surface area and heat loss. I will look to clarify

    I still found this a little unclear, so I've reworded it. Please change it if it is wrong. Yomangani^talk 08:26, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

    that's fine now. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

  • Victoria Land with 21,708 pairs - quick, one pair is leaving, change the total...no...wait...they are coming back...no...leaving. A little too precise, don't you think?

    Yeah, tricky this one. I am presuming that particular population had a comprehensive census done at the time, and that differing levels of accuracy relate to different levels of study of them all around the antarctic. Given that MOS prefers precise over vague, I think I will leave as is until further info arises. I haven't got a date for it unfortunately, nor do I feel comfortable rounding either up or down as populations can grow or shrink.

    I'm sure the MOS will forgive a "more than 21,000" or "around 21,000—22,000"; the current level of precision for a survey for which we don't know the date or details strikes me as a little ridiculous. Yomangani^talk 08:26, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

    Okay okay....duly approximated. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:59, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

  • The Emperor Penguin searches for prey in the open water of the Southern Ocean or in ice-free areas of open water one is a subset of the other at the moment.

    changed to "The Emperor Penguin searches for prey in the open water of the Southern Ocean, either in ice-free areas of open water or tidal cracks in pack ice." which explains it better.

  • The primary aquatic mammal predators... - does that mean there are aquatic non-mammalian predators that you haven't told us about?

    Nope - changed to emphasises they are both mammalian as a statement then colon then listed 'em.

  • Before copulation, one bird bows deeply to its mate, its bill pointed close to the ground, and its mate then does the same - I added the "then" in there, otherwise we could have "the pair bow to each other, their bills pointed close to the ground" which would be better if that is the case.
  • The caption: The egg of the Emperor Penguin. It is 12x8cm and vaguely pear-shaped disagrees with the text. Is it pear-shaped or vaguely pear-shaped (vaguely as far as I'm concerned) and the formatting of the dimensions is different.

  Depends on how strictly or loosely one interprets the term 'pear-shaped', but anyway I put all mine in one basket.Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:37, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

  • The male incubates the egg in his brood pouch - brood pouch? Might be worth mentioning that in the Description section as its not a common feature (I don't think I have one. Sob.).

    I am baffled by this too - there is absolutely nothing in any description about a pouch or patch as such, and the egg (or chick) is balanced on the parents' feet. I can only presume it means cosily enveloped in folds of nice warm skin but it doesn't specifically spell this out. I will keep looking though. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:02, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

  • introduced predators (this is more relevant to the other species of penguin than it is the Emperor) - bit of a cop out. If it isn't relevant don't mention it, if it is then explain what those introduced predators are. Dogs? Yomangani^talk 17:51, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

    Many penguin species in NZ or subantarctic islands have been affected by mustelids, rats and Wekas introduced outside their normal range....actually as I write this I realise it needs rewroding or removing as it is somewhat tenuous in its relevancy....Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:57, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

• Comments: This is really close to done, a fine article.
  • I'm still confused about the period between hatching and fledging. The diagram says that the cycle of parents going back to the sea "repeats 6 more times" but the article text does not mention how many times the cycle repeats (is it always 6?). Actually the article text doesn't say that anything happens between the males' first return and the chicks huddling 45-50 day after hatching, so the story could be clarified.

    OK - I've not seen anything about 6 elsewhere but the parents alternate foraging and brooding from the chicks' hatching until some time in the créche period when both parents will go fetch food together.

• • What are the adults doing when the chicks form a crèche? Do the adults go huddle somewhere else? Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 06:49, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

    both fetching food of course :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:06, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

• • Numbers about the size of huddles/crèches are contradictory. One section says the maximum is several hundred birds, another says several thousand. Or... is there a difference between a crèche and a huddle?

• • Need one or two closeup pictures. Flickr has some good ones; search for "penguin" and lots of Emperors come up. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 06:01, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

• • The IUCN says the population is 270,000–350,000 birds, which is quite different from the 400,000–450,000 figure given in the article. If there is disagreement over population estimates, this should be stated (preferably with reasons for the disagreement).

• Support. I would like to see the image sizes specified, because they appear very small as thumbs, but that's just personal preference. Overall, it is beautifully written, fascinating to read, and a good length. Definitely an article to be proud of. SlimVirgin ^talk|edits 18:54, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

  Thanks for that. The pixels thing I am in two minds about. I have had others remove pixel defs from image boxes so they automantically resize (?). Agree that some have some tiny looking penguins in them. I am not to au fait with this and hopefully someone with more knowledge on this will join in and we can work out what to do. I may flag someone down. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:31, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

• Support --Hadseys Chat_Contribs 20:21, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
• Support Very well done, good quality. I made a few minor changes. However, the vocalization section is rather small. --Sunsetsunrise (talk) 00:01, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
• Support - Very well cited and written. Limetolime ^{talk to me • look what I did!} 00:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

• Support. This, I like! Support per above. Teh Rote (talk) 01:21, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
• Support—just excellent (disclaimer: I've tweaked the prose a little). TONY (talk) 10:22, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

and I've fixed the hyphens in refs. Jimfbleak (talk) 10:56, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

• Comment. The "cultural" section seems like very choppy writing indicative of a merged list of trivia. The first sentence is really awkward:

Apsley Cherry-Garrard, the Antarctic explorer, said: "Take it all in all, I do not believe anybody on Earth has a worse time than an Emperor Penguin"., and the species' unique life cycle has made it a popular subject for documentaries.-Wafulz (talk) 11:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I concede the first sentence is awkward and have reworded it. However, the other references are highly notable and have a common theme which I am trying to highlight. I have rearranged more thematically to read less listily. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:34, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

• Comments a few minor points to be examined
  • The dorsal parts are black and are clearly defined -> avoid multiple "are" and prefer use of "delineated"

    (I pondered on delineated when I originally wrote it so am glad someone else likes it. done)

  • dive for up to 18 minutes to a depth of 535 m -> stay underwater for up to (time) and dive to a (depth) of

    done

  • an unusual haemoglobin [missing "structure"/modification ]

    done

  • has been found in late Pliocene deposits about three million years old in New Zealand -> fossil records from the late Pliocene (3 mya) in New Zealand

    done

  • Adaptation to cold/pressure - "Adaptations" refers to nouns - adaptation suggests action

    done

  • almost exclusively in the Antarctic between the 66º and 77º south latitudes - "exclusively" refers to the latitude range or Antarctica ?

    the latter numbers and latitude qualify the former. I'll think about whether it can be reworded but am happy as is.

  • this allows it to function with very low oxygen levels - it - refers to bird or the Haemoglobin molecules?

    the bird - done. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:07, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

  • Later research revealed a small female had dived to a depth of 535 m -missing a "that"

    I feel it flows slightly better as is, and the 'that' would be optional. If you feel it really makes a difference you're welcome to add it

• • exerts pressure with both its upward and downward strokes while swimming - obtains "forward thrust" on both strokes - rather than pressure ?

    This is a tough one. It is obvious to me and I think most succinctly stated as is. Something like "Actively thrusts on both its upward and downward strokes..." could be ok. Not sure. I will run with consensus I guess.

• • Courtship and reproduction -> Breeding - there is information on chick feeding as well in this section :)

    Ahaa, hoisted by my own self-imposed WP:bird MOS petard...done

  • spending its time balanced on its parent's feet and sheltered by its pouch. - whose pouch ?

Shyamal (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

• • Tricky this one, I am in two minds about clarifying parent's pouch as it then leads to reduplication. I felt that it was slef-explanatory that it was the parents pouch (unless it was some form of avian contortionist..). If you can think of a way of rewording it you're welcome to chip in, as I feel that inserting the extra parent's probably detracts more than it adds.Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

• Support looks good. Shyamal (talk) 01:24, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
• Support Very good all around, but it might be better if the lead image showed the entire bird. There's plenty of space to move the current lead (very pretty) in to the body if you do. Either way, still Featured class work. VanTucky 00:36, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

  I know, I was in a dilemma with the images - the only other candidate from commons is here but the lighting is nowhere near as good. If you can find another suitable candidate I'd welcome an improvement, although I really like the one there now too. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:39, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

• Support. Very well written, and the images are great. bibliomaniac15 Hey you! Stop lazing around and help fix this article instead! 00:55, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.