Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 16:58, 22 May 2007.

[edit] E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial

Self-nomination: Hot off the press too. I've been working from this version, and have been working ever since, using the DVD and Joseph McBride's book on Spielberg. I would love this to be on the Main Page on June 11 as part of the film's twenty-fifth anniversary, and I feel the article is worthy of FA, in being well-written, well-referenced and all images with fair use rationales. I'm still unsure of some stuff, but having just passed GA, I'd love to get this nomination over with. Alientraveller 19:14, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment What are the pictures in the 20th anniversary edition section for?.

The ISBN of the McBride book needs to be in each ref.

Most articles don't need to cite the ISBN, I only do it once when it's first mentioned. Alientraveller 17:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Problem with ref #27.

Done. Alientraveller 17:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Cast section could be exspanded.

How? Blanket statements won't help. Alientraveller 17:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I made a move from production. Alientraveller 20:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

A lot of the ref are from newspapers or mags, making it almost immpossible to check them.

I cited them from McBride's book, and are simply making the article more verifiable. Alientraveller 17:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

It isn't impossible to verify a newspaper or magazine. It may take some effort, but not impossible by any means. Most public libraries carry archived newspapers and magazines.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 17:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Buc 16:39, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

To show the change from guns to walkie-talkies. Alientraveller 16:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

This needs to be explained in the article. Buc 17:02, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

It is, it just didn't have a caption under the image. I've added that, and if you look at the text you see that it also mentions it.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 17:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

• Strong oppose. Poor prose. I only skimmed over parts of the article, and then began reading it from the beginning, but I didn't make it through because of this. Some examples (in the order I discovered them):
  • Section "20th anniversary edition"
    • "The new edition added five minutes to the film's run time, and includes special effects scenes" - tense mismatch, should be "included".
    • "CGI was implemented for some scenes of E.T. running and elements of the spaceship, satisfying shots that bothered him since 1982" – what's CGI? should be "and for elements...". Who is "him"? E.T.? He whose name must not be spoken? And if these scenes were satisfying, why did they bother him, whoever he may be? Much better now. Lupo 11:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
    • "Spielberg also deleted a scene where police threaten the children with guns, as he had become more sensitive since the film's production. The guns wielded by police were replaced with walkie-talkies." First, what's that "sensitive" part? Do we have a source for that being Spielberg's own feelings, or a change in RIAA practices, or a change in cultural perception of gun problematics in the U.S., or something else entirely? (The source given is to the 20th anniversary edition itself, so that only supports that the guns were replaced, but is silent about Spielberg's motives for having done that change.) Also, it appears that the scene was not deleted but altered...
  • Intro:
    • "It tells the story of Elliott (Thomas)," – I briefly wondered about "Elliott Thomas" until it dawned on me. Would be clearer as "Elliott (played by Thomas)".
    • "a benign alien dubbed E.T., that is stranded on Earth" – Comma should go.
    • "during the latter occasion" – on the latter occasion.
  • Plot:
    • "A group of alien botanists explore Earth, glowing their hearts in union." – Eh, doing what? (Yes, I had seen the film back then, so once I remembered, it became sort of understandable. But this "glowing their hearts in union" stuff comes out of nowhere and is utterly confusing. Especially for someone who has not seen the film.)
    • "The next day, Elliott feigns illness by putting his thermometer under a lightbulb, and takes the opportunity to introduce the alien to his Star Wars action figures. That afternoon, Michael and younger sister Gertie return home and are shocked to meet the alien. Their mother Mary hears the noise and comes upstairs, and Michael, Gertie and the alien hide in the closet. Elliott decides to keep the alien, and they begin to question it of its origin. It answers by levitating balls to represent his local solar system, and further demonstrates remarkable supernatural powers by healing a dead plant." – The repetitive sentence structure makes this a very tiring and boring read. Way too many "and"s.
    • "Government agents suddenly appear, forcing them to leave in their spaceship, but in their rush leave one wanderer behind." – "ERROR 2007: Parse error, aborting process". The government agents leave a wanderer behind? Here's the proof that the U.S. government is dominated by aliens!
  • Seriously, this won't do. Note that these are just a few examples. Fixing only those examples does not address my objection. This article needs a thorough, serious copyedit. Lupo 12:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Done. Alientraveller 15:37, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment - So, everything above is done. Any other issues? Sjones23 20:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Nonsense. Do not strike my comments.[1] I'll do that myself when the time comes. There's still choppy phrasing, and CGI still isn't explained, and the above were only examples, not a comprehensive list of problems. On what a "thorough copyedit" is, see Tony's guides. It takes time. Lupo 20:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

OK. I'll keep at it, but prose need not extraordinary really, but if you are confused over the CGI, I'll keep trying. Alientraveller 20:19, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Copyediting is going on now. I've struck those of my examples above that have been addressed in the meantime. However, there are still problems. Some examples from the current version:

• General: E.T. is referred to as an "it" throughout the article. I don't care very much, but in the intro, I spontaneously thought that "which is stranded on Earth" should be "who is stranded". I don't know what works better for the article. Maybe "it" is indeed the correct choice. There's no discussion about that on the talk page.
• Intro
  • "When released, the film became an enormous box office hit" – redundancy. Obviously the film could become a hit only after it was released. Just cut "When released".
• Plot
  • "In their rush, the aliens leave one of a fellow alien behind. The stranded alien makes its way into the city." – Something went wrong here. Maybe "In the rush, one alien is left behind."? "the aliens leave a fellow alien behind" is too clumsy (repetition of "alien"). Choppy sentences anyway. Maybe combine them?
  • "The scene shifts to a typical California suburban home; a boy named Elliott plays servant to his older brother, Michael, and his friends." – instead of the semicolon, use "where".
  • "While going to get pizza, Elliott discovers the stranded alien botanist. The creature flees into the night, and Elliott leaves Reese's Pieces to lure it back the next night. Luring the creature to his bedroom, with a trail of candy, Elliott notices it imitating his movements." – still clumsy. Maybe "As he goes to get pizza, Elliott discovers the stranded alien botanist, who (which?) promptly flees into the night. Elliott leaves some Reese's Pieces to lure it back. The next night, he leaves a trail of candy and in this way succeeds to coax the alien to follow him to his bedroom. Elliott notices that the alien imitates his own movements." (That probably could also be improved. Take my improvement proposals with a grain of salt.)
  • "Elliott becomes irrational, freeing all the frogs from a dissection class, and kissing a girl in the manner of The Quiet Man, which the alien watches on TV, before being taken to the Principal's office." – who is being taken to the Principal's office?
  • "Elliott and E.T. leave on a bicycle to the forest; E.T. makes a successful call home." – again, "where" instead of the semicolon.
  • "Mary becomes frightened when she discovers her son's illness" – all right, Mary is the mother. She hasn't been introduced by name before.
  • "Elliott and Michael steal free E.T." – should probably be only "free".
• Production
  • "While growing up, Spielberg filled a void in his childhood, following his parents' divorce, with the story of an alien coming into his life." – How about "When he grew up, Spielberg filled a void in his childhood after his parents' divorce with the story of an alien coming into his life."?
  • "She wrote a first draft, entitled E.T. and Me, in eight weeks, which Spielberg considered perfect." – What did Spielberg consider perfect? The script, or the fact that she wrote it in eight weeks?
  • "The passed, calling it "a wimpy Walt Disney movie." – spell checking, should be "They passed". Which word works best: "pass", "decline", "reject", ...?
  • "as well as a costume, which two dwarves and a boy born without legs filled." – So it was three people simultaneously under that costume?
  • "A professional mime, named Caprice Roth, performed as E.T.'s hands." – "Caprice Roth, a professional mime, performed as E.T.'s hands."

It's getting better, but there's still a lot to do. Again, the above are just examples. What about the source for Spielberg's "sensitivity" (the walkie-talkie bit)? Is there an interview with the man on the DVD? If so, say so; if not, where does this come from? Lupo 11:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks ever so much for your notes. Bignole is doing an excellent copyedit job, especially on the plot where I basically did just write a recollection of the film. As for Spielberg becoming more sensitive on the guns, I have referenced his DVD interview, and one note I should make is generally, leads tend to write "character (name of actor, or surname is already named)". But I'll deviate for your sake. Alientraveller 14:33, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose 1a needs copy-editing. There are other problems which aren't worth listing until it gets copy-edited. Quadzilla99 23:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

The "enormous" thing was supposed to have been removed when I started the copyediting, as were some of the others like "free". I think when I was cutting sentences smaller that I left some words behind. I've taken care of your other suggestions. The plot was the hardest thing I've come across. I tried to fix "The Quiet Man" sentence, and explain what is going on (I just ditched the principal thing altogether), but it's still odd to me. As the alien watches John Wayne kiss Maureen O'Hara in The Quiet Man, Elliott's psychic link causes him to kiss a girl in the same manner. I haven't gotten to the last two sections yet, so I'll get back to you on those.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 14:16, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.