Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Aston Villa F.C.

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 01:59, 24 July 2007.

[edit] Aston Villa F.C.

This is a joint nomination with Everlast1910 because i think it is now worthy of FA status. It has been through a peer review and it has recently passed a GA review. Most of the comments from GA review have been corrected although one has not due to it breaking notability guidelines. Thankyou. Woodym555 14:06, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Comments from Universe=atom
    • Section 9.3 can definitely expanded. It gives the name to the main article, but there is no content in itself.
      • I have added the following: There have been 34 captains of Aston Villa F.C. in total. The current incumbent is Gareth Barry who has been Captain since 2006. The full list of captains can be found at List of Aston Villa captains. The subpage link is, i think, self explanatory in that it lists the captains of Aston Villa. Do i need to add anything else?
    • Grammar mistake: "...top-flight; 128 goals scored in season 1930–31." (Section 7) Perhaps the passive voice can be used.
    • Grammar: "Aston Villa Football Club was formed in March 1874 by members of the Villa Cross Wesleyan Chapel in Aston, now part of Birmingham." (section 1) Several mistakes: (1) The verb should be "were" because A.V.F.C is a collective noun, and in British English (which this article is supposed to follow), collective nouns get plural verbs. Besides, that is also how it is done in the introduction. (2) There should be commas before and after "1874." (3) It should be "which is now part of..." instead of the current "now part of..."
      • Done, added requested corrections
    • A reference is needed for the first sentence of the second paragraph of the introduction.
      • Done
    • Grammar: "By 1880 black jerseys with..." (Section 2) Comma is needed after "1880."
      • Done
    • Grammar: "No-one is quite sure why claret..." (Section 2) No hyphen is needed.
      • Done, changed to nobody
    • The second to-last paragraph of Section 2 needs several references, as these theories can be severely challenged. A reference is provided at the end of the paragraph, but that only pertains to that one sentence.
      • Done, deleted Barton Arms statements as no verifiable reference (or any mention of it) could be found. I changed and referenced the Scottish angle.
    • Major mistake: Section 3 should be renamed to "Stadium" from the current "Stadia." The reason is that the noun "stadium" is not derived from the Latin second declension neuter. So, the singular is "stadium," and the plural is "stadiums."
      • Done, i didn't name it that in the first place!
    • Grammar: "Aston Villa's first match was against the local Aston Brook St Mary's Rugby team and as a condition of the match, the Villa side had to agree to play the first half under rugby rules and the second half under football rules." (Section 1) A comma is required between two independent clauses.
      • Done, changed into two sentences
    • Grammar: "As with all English clubs, the Second World War brought about the loss of seven seasons and several careers were brought to a premature end by the conflict." (Section 1) Same as previous one.
      • Done
    • Grammar: "The club was floated by the previous owner and chairman Doug Ellis but in 2006 full control of the club was acquired by Randy Lerner." (Lead) Same as previous one.
      • Done
    • Grammar: "They returned to the second division as Champions the following year and they continued to rise all the way into the First Division and Europe in 1977." (Section 1) Same as previous one.
      • Done
    • Grammar: "The traditional motto "Prepared" remains in the crest and the name Aston Villa has been shortened to AVFC, FC having been omitted from the previous crest." (Section 2) Same as previous one.
      • Done
    • Grammar: "The club was floated on the stock market in 1996 and the share price fluctuated in the ten years prior to the flotation." (Section 4) Same as previous one.
      • Done
    • Grammar: "With mounting debts and Villa lying at the bottom of Division Two; the board sacked Cummings and within weeks the entire board resigned due to overwhelming pressure from fans." (Section 1) Two major grammar mistakes: (1) Same as previous one. (2) No semicolon is needed; a comma would do instead.
      • Done
    • Grammar: "Aston Villa won their sixth FA Cup in 1920 although soon after the club began a slow decline that led to Villa, at the time one of the most famous and successful clubs in world football being relegated for the first time to the Second Division in 1936." (Section 1) I still do not understand what this sentence means. Several commas should be added throughout the sentence in order to give it a legible prose.
      • Done, changed to Aston Villa won their sixth FA Cup in 1920, soon after though the club began a slow decline that led to Villa, at the time one of the most famous and successful clubs in world football, being relegated in 1936 for the first time to the Second Division.
    • "To everyone's surprise, Saunders quit halfway through..." Perhaps some PoV is suggested by "To everyone's surprise".
      • Done, changed to: To the surprise of commentators and fans,
    • "Villa reached the FA Cup final in 2000 (for the first time since 1957), but lost 1–0 to Chelsea in the last game to be played at the old Wembley Stadium." (Section 1) No comma is needed between compound verbs.
      • Done
    • "After 23 years as chairman and single biggest shareholder (approx 38%), Doug Ellis finally decided to sell his stake in Aston Villa to Randy Lerner the owner of NFL franchise, the Cleveland Browns." (Section 1) Several mistakes: (1) "Approx" should be written out to "approximately". (2) A comma is needed before nonessential appositives, this time after "Randy Lerner." (3) A comma is not needed before essential appositives; this time, the one after "franchise" should be removed.
      • Done
    • Grammar: "...on May 2nd for..." (Section 2) I think that "May 2" would suffice.
      • Done, changed to 2 May
    • Grammar: "The new training ground was officially unveiled on May 6, 2007 by..." (Section 3) Commas are required after years."
      • Done
    • Grammar: "On August 14, 2006 it was confirmed that..." (Section 4) Same as previous one.
      • Done
    • Grammar: "He also appointed himself Chairman of theclub." (Section 4) Obvious mistake.
      • Done
    • A few more references are needed in the beginning of Section 4 for all that statistical data.
      • Not Done, all the data is contained within the reference closest to the data. As per MOS i have not duplicated references within the paragraph.

I am sure that all these mistakes can be fixed easily (most of them, at least). After all of my concerns have been take care of, I will vote "Support." Thank you. Universe=atomTalk•Contributions 15:35, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

    • My first replies are listed Woodym555 16:32, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
    • I have now corrected all of your requests although the expansion of section 9.3 is still open to debate. I would now appreciate any further comments. Thankyou for your diligence and attention to detail. Woodym555 16:44, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Support: Now that the points that I raised are taken care of, the article is much better and surely worthy of FA status. Cheers. Universe=atomTalk•Contributions 09:22, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

*Minor Oppose A few small things. Club honours needs ref. Not sure "Current reserve/Youth team players" is really notable. The Captains article is linked twice in the space of three lines. Some of the coaching staff sound a bit too minor to be notable. Why not list all the Managers? Lose the See also section. Don't really need the Traditional Home Kit image since it's in the lead infobox, maybe you could replace it with there first ever kit. Ditto the Current crest image. Buc 11:28, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

    • Club honours:Done, added ref to each subsection
    • Captains:Done, removed last sentence
    • Coaching Staff:Done up to a point; I have removed two entries, the others all have articles on Wikipedia therefore meet notability guidelines. Gordan Cowans for example is a youth team coach but he was a great player in his own right.
    • Managers:Not Done, there have been maany managers in Villa's history, it has been recommended in the past peer reviw and GA article to remove it to a subsection. Also many managers did not achieve much with Villa, as such i am inclined to leave it as a subpage.
    • See Also:Done, removed
    • Kit and Crest:Changed kit, the crest is there to show the progression of the crest, its evolution, and as such i think it is an important part of the section.
      • My replies are listed. I have now fixed what i can and commented on your problems that i haven't fixed, i have added in the proposed kit of 1886 instead of the chocolate kit. I would now appreciate any further comments. Thankyou Woodym555 15:28, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


Support: Disclaimer: I am the GA reviewer of the article. The article is in good shape but for a few minor kinks that i want the nominator to address:

  • Provide reference to the club being called The Villans - first sentence in the lead section
    • Done, added reference
  • Provide reference to the victory in the Birmingham Senior Cup
    • Done, added reference from AVFC Hall of fame
  • The Ownership section doesn't provide data on pre-1968 data. Please add the same
    • Done, added brief history paragraph as little is known, shares were bought and sold, Ellis was really the only significant buyer in its history
  • "The club was floated on the stock market in 1996, and the share price fluctuated in the ten years prior to the flotation." - shouldn't it be "since" instead of "prior to"?
    • Done, changed to after, as it is no longer floated
  • "Randy Lerner took full control on September 18 as Randy Lerner had 89.69% of the share. On September 19, 2006, Aston Villa PLC executive Chairman Doug Ellis and his board resigned to be replaced with a new board headed by Randy Lerner.[30]" - replace "Randy Lerner" with "Lerner"
    • Done
  • MCMXIV - either add Wikiarticle (atleast stub) or remove wikilink
    • Done, created stub
  • [49] - add a sentence before the link or move the link to an appropriate place. Suggestion on sentence: "Aston Villa has won European and domestic league honours, though the last of it was in 1996 (League Cup winners).[49] The club won the FA Youth Cup in 2002"
    • As a sub point, consider moving FA Youth Cup as a seperate category instead of it being under Domestic --Kalyan 12:04, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
      • Done, i have created a sub-section within the cups area, I have also created the sentence as per the main point.
I have fixed all of your queries and replied underneath. Thankyou again for your comments. Woodym555 14:32, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
All comments have been addressed --Kalyan 19:33, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments from The Rambling Man

Sorry, late to join the party, my comments...

  • References [3], [4], [26] should be moved to right-hand side of punctuation.
    • Done
  • On a similar but personal note, I'd expect to see the first reference in the lead be [1], not [3]. Looks a bit odd, I think, while I realise the infobox comes first in the markup, perhaps the citation could be made elsewhere in the text?
    • Not done, i agree with you that it is unusual but that is the wikimarkup, the infobox needs to be referenced and so it must be so.
  • "the The Villans" in first sentence - off to a bad start!
    • Done (whoops)
  • "...club was floated by the..." - needs a touch of explanation for the non-expert - perhaps just "...on the London Stock Exchange..." needs to be added... (unless the club is a sea-faring vehicle).
    • Wikilinked to both
  • "...on 2 May for the 2007–2008 season..." needs to be consistent with rest of the article in both date and season formats.
    • Done, cleared up consistency here and in other places
  • "plc" or "PLC"? Consistency required.
    • Done
  • 1990s or 1990's (and similar decade declarations) - again, consistency needed.
    • Done, consistently "0s" now
  • £13 million or GB£3m? Consistency again. Plus, no need to wikilink GB£ so many times.
    • Done, removed the plethora of wikilinks, replaced with GB£ for all but one
  • "...Names in bold are Villa Park board members..." - they're all bold, so any need for this?
    • No there isn't now, there used to be, so deleted "bold" statement
  • The lead talks of "Second City Derby" while the "See also:" says "Birmingham Derby" - consistency.
    • fixed by adding (also known as ...) in the lead
  • No citation for the Hannibal Lector claim.
    • Deleted it, quite random anyway, (must have been added when i wasn't watching)
  • "...fictional "Aston Wanderers" During episodes ..." - grammar.
    • Done, fixed typo.
  • No need for bold on Aston Villa in statistics - I assume it's wikilinked, so unlink it.
    • Done
  • Refs [53] to [55] look untidy, either move to either side of colon or move to end of seasons.
    • They are footnots explaing about the name change with regards to Division one etc, as such i have left for the moment.
  • FC vs F.C. - template uses FC, article uses F.C., in general the article just uses Aston Villa, the Captains section is on its own when it uses "Aston Villa F.C."...
    • fixed consistency
  • Why all the small text in the notable players section? If it's worth saying, say it in normal size!
    • Done, upgraded to normal size
  • Notable managers table - looks untidy, make Name, Nationality and Period columns one line deep and let the Honours column go as deep as it needs.
  • I'm not sure being "First manager under Randy Lerner" is a recognisable honour...!
    • Done, albeit begrudgingly, not a notable manager with Aston Villa in his own right, (not yet anyway)

Let me know if there's anything more I can help with, hope some of this has been useful. The Rambling Man 16:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

    • I have added my first replies, i have fixed everything except the table which as i am unsure of your intentions. I have left a note on your talk page. Woodym555 17:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments from Cas Liber (and page break for ease of adding)

Nice but the prose still needs some massaging -I'll try to list: cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:27, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

The club was founded in 1874 and have played at the club's current home ground, Villa Park, since 1897 - "club" repetitive - try "Founded in 1874, the club have played at Villa Park, their current home ground, since 1897" Y Done (Everlast1910 09:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC))
Aston Villa were founding members of Football League in 1888 and of the Premier League in 1992. - insert "the" before Football league and take out "of" before "the Premier League" Y Done (Everlast1910 09:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC))
..clubs to win the European Cup, in 1982. - I know its succinct but "clubs to win the European Cup, (which they did) in 1982." scans better Y Done (Everlast1910 09:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC))
  • All the above have now been addressed and fixed! (Everlast1910 09:54, 17 July 2007 (UTC))
Great - sorry got interrupted before and now I'll keep looking. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:56, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Villa were one of the founding members of the Premier League and in 1993, the inaugural season Aston Villa finished runners-up to Manchester United. - I think the commas got mixed up here - try "Villa were one of the founding members of the Premier League in 1993, and finished runners-up to Manchester United in the inaugural season." Done
Villa Park has hosted a number of England internationals at senior level. The first of which was in 1899, the most recent being in 2005. In all it has hosted 16 international matches. - a bit repetitive - could be more succinct with "Villa Park has hosted 16 England internationals at senior level, the first in 1899, and the most recent in 2005." Done
The Club have planning permission to extend the North Stand. This will involve the 'filling in' of the corners to either side of the North Stand. - the first sentnece is a bit short; I'd use a semicolon between them. Done
Villa Park was the first English ground to stage international football in three different centuries. - out of place where it is, should go after the segemnt on 16 internationals, and replace "Villa Park was" with "Thus it was" Done
Villa, also have a training ground at Bodymoor Heath in north Warwickshire. The training ground site was purchased by former Aston Villa Chairman Doug Ellis in the early 1970s from the farmer who owned the land. -eek! Try "The current training ground is located at Bodymoor Heath in north Warwickshire, the site for which was purchased by former Chairman Doug Ellis in the early 1970s from a local farmer." Done
I have implemented your suggestions for the above comments. Any further comments are most welcome. Thanks Woodym555 11:56, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

OK, Support then. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.