Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Angelina Jolie
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[edit] Angelina Jolie
Self-nomination. This article has been nominated once before (link to previous nomination). All concerns raised on its original submission have since been addressed and the article also underwent a complete copy edit. I believe it is now among the best articles for present day actors. -- EnemyOfTheState 23:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
- I would support, but you really need to remove all the citations to the IMDB. It's not a reputable source, but rather fan-submitted. I think there's even a line about it in WP:RS. Mad Jack 00:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- The IMDb biography is used for three rather uncontroversial statement. I don't think that's a big problem; I will try to find other sources tomorrow. -- EnemyOfTheState 01:17, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Well, the one that annoys me the most is #2 - about her ancestry. Pick any 5 IMDB bios that mention ancestry, and at least 4 would be totally wrong or at least somehow misleading. I'm not sure myself what the story is with Jolie's mother - if she's actually French or French-Canadian - because I think I read somewhere she was born in France, or something. And the statement "People often assume that Jolie's mother is French, because of her name, but Jolie's grandparents were French-Canadian" is totally unsourced. As for her father, I also don't remember seeing anything about English ancestry anywhere outside of the IMDB, which is also not a good sign. I'm willing to bet though, that any reliable info about that subject that you or I end up finding would contradict the IMDB's, at least somehow. I'll look around. Mad Jack 01:54, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- OK, here's at least one reliable first-hand source about the topic: [1] "She is, however, extremely close to her mother, who is often wrongly identified as a French actress. "My mom is as far from French Parisian as you can get," Jolie says. "She's part Iroquois Indian, from Chicago. She grew up in a bowling alley that my grandpartents owned. She studied to be an actress, but she married my father, and by 28 she was divorced with two kids. She gave up her dreams."" I'm not sure if that means her mother isn't even French Canadian. Still haven't been able to find anything reliable about Jon Voight's ancestry Mad Jack 02:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- And our own Wiki Jon Voight article says that he's German-American! So, as you can see, some first-hand sources definitely needed here... Mad Jack 02:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Her mother is definitely not French, she explained that herself in this [2] interview, for example. I know that she is often cited as "French" in the media and that's basically why this statement is in there. About Voight being English, you might have a point there, it has been disputed before, so it might be best to just cut it. He is definitely Czech (or rather Sudeten German) though, this has been addressed during her Inside the Actors Studio appearance. -- EnemyOfTheState 02:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Someone out to correct the Jon Voight article, then... :-) The actor's Studio is a great source, that is what we should cite (and I found the same article about her grandparents, see above.) Mad Jack 02:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- I made some changes and removed the IMDb source. Maybe I will find another source tomorrow. -- EnemyOfTheState 02:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- I added another source, an article from the UK newspaper The Independent, where she was described as "Czech, French-Canadian and Iroquois". I think that should be sufficient. -- EnemyOfTheState 17:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Excellent, thank you very much, therefore I....
- I added another source, an article from the UK newspaper The Independent, where she was described as "Czech, French-Canadian and Iroquois". I think that should be sufficient. -- EnemyOfTheState 17:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- I made some changes and removed the IMDb source. Maybe I will find another source tomorrow. -- EnemyOfTheState 02:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Someone out to correct the Jon Voight article, then... :-) The actor's Studio is a great source, that is what we should cite (and I found the same article about her grandparents, see above.) Mad Jack 02:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Her mother is definitely not French, she explained that herself in this [2] interview, for example. I know that she is often cited as "French" in the media and that's basically why this statement is in there. About Voight being English, you might have a point there, it has been disputed before, so it might be best to just cut it. He is definitely Czech (or rather Sudeten German) though, this has been addressed during her Inside the Actors Studio appearance. -- EnemyOfTheState 02:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- And our own Wiki Jon Voight article says that he's German-American! So, as you can see, some first-hand sources definitely needed here... Mad Jack 02:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- OK, here's at least one reliable first-hand source about the topic: [1] "She is, however, extremely close to her mother, who is often wrongly identified as a French actress. "My mom is as far from French Parisian as you can get," Jolie says. "She's part Iroquois Indian, from Chicago. She grew up in a bowling alley that my grandpartents owned. She studied to be an actress, but she married my father, and by 28 she was divorced with two kids. She gave up her dreams."" I'm not sure if that means her mother isn't even French Canadian. Still haven't been able to find anything reliable about Jon Voight's ancestry Mad Jack 02:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Well, the one that annoys me the most is #2 - about her ancestry. Pick any 5 IMDB bios that mention ancestry, and at least 4 would be totally wrong or at least somehow misleading. I'm not sure myself what the story is with Jolie's mother - if she's actually French or French-Canadian - because I think I read somewhere she was born in France, or something. And the statement "People often assume that Jolie's mother is French, because of her name, but Jolie's grandparents were French-Canadian" is totally unsourced. As for her father, I also don't remember seeing anything about English ancestry anywhere outside of the IMDB, which is also not a good sign. I'm willing to bet though, that any reliable info about that subject that you or I end up finding would contradict the IMDB's, at least somehow. I'll look around. Mad Jack 01:54, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- The IMDb biography is used for three rather uncontroversial statement. I don't think that's a big problem; I will try to find other sources tomorrow. -- EnemyOfTheState 01:17, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Support per above Mad Jack 03:18, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
- Support - I think the article is well written, structured, researched and referenced. The only thing I still don't like is the "superstardom" header. I won't object on that basis but it's a worthless word that has lost any power it may have once had due to it being so overused. It's also POV, and the fact that it applies better to Jolie than most people it's used to describe, and that it's probably a widely held view, doesn't matter. It's impossible to quantify or attribute. There must be another word or phrase that can describe her as successful. Other than that, I think it's great. Rossrs 06:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- The only alternative I can think of right now would be something like "International fame/success/prominence". Maybe you have a better idea. -- EnemyOfTheState 17:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- I think "international success" is accurate without being excessive and is well supported by the text that follows. It would be my choice. I think it's more specific than "fame" or "prominence" which can be achieved even in the absence of success (think Zsa Zsa Gabor or Paris Hilton). Rossrs 01:44, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
- I changed it accordingly. -- EnemyOfTheState 14:06, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you. And I'll upgrade my support to a support+ ;-) Rossrs 14:14, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
- I changed it accordingly. -- EnemyOfTheState 14:06, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
- I think "international success" is accurate without being excessive and is well supported by the text that follows. It would be my choice. I think it's more specific than "fame" or "prominence" which can be achieved even in the absence of success (think Zsa Zsa Gabor or Paris Hilton). Rossrs 01:44, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
- Object. Too many fairuse images for a candidate for Main Page. --Ghirla -трёп- 11:05, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- There are two movie screen shots and two other fair use images, I don't see how this could be considered excessive; I think this might actually be below average for "Media" FAs. Also, this nomination is not connected to a possible appearance on the main page. -- EnemyOfTheState 14:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment - for what it's worth.... I agree with you. The lead image is from Commons and even if the article made it to the main page, this is obviously the image that would be used. The other images are used sparingly and to illustrate the text. ie they are not random or merely decorative. They all have acceptable fair use rationales IMO. Rossrs 20:05, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- Support per previous nomination and per above. The number of fair use images seems fine to me. Sloan21 15:47, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment — Is it appropriate to credit her for films that have not yet been released down in the "Filmography" section? — RJH (talk) 23:53, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if there's an official guideline for this, but it's definitely done in other FAs (Uma Thurman, Julia Stiles, Diane Keaton, Eric Bana, etc.). It seems appropriate to me, since the majority of the films mentioned in the article are already in (post-)production. -- EnemyOfTheState 00:27, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
- Support This seems pretty detailed for a biographical article, very encyclopedic and devoid of the "paparrazi fodder" tone that is often seen in writing about the actress. Fairuse images are fine with me as its just the right amount.Jedd the Jedi 10:27, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
