Talk:Father Damien

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Former featured article Father Damien is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Main Page trophy This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 4, 2004.
Peer review This Philrelig article has been selected for Version 0.5 and subsequent release versions of Wikipedia. It has been rated B-Class on the assessment scale (comments).

Contents

[edit] older entries

  • Please do not convert ss.cc. (uncapitalized) to SS.CC. (capitalized) as the lowercase is the proper form of identification for this particular religious order
  • I've done some cleaning- mostly removing attributions for uncontroversial points, and grammar fixes. Markalexander100 03:01, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • I've added a treatment of the famous criticism of Father Damien by Rev. Hyde as someone requested. --Gerald Farinas 17:49, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • Good work, thanks! Markalexander100 01:20, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • A featured article. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 13:57, 2004 Jul 20 (UTC)

[edit] Request for references

Hi, I am working to encourage implementation of the goals of the Wikipedia:Verifiability policy. Part of that is to make sure articles cite their sources. This is particularly important for featured articles, since they are a prominent part of Wikipedia. Further reading is not the same thing as proper references. Further reading could list works about the topic that were not ever consulted by the page authors. If some of the works listed in the further reading section were used to add or check material in the article, please list them in a references section instead. The Fact and Reference Check Project has more information. Thank you, and please leave me a message when a few references have been added to the article. - Taxman 18:45, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] {{disputed}} One of the references has come under scrutiny for accuracy and "Artistic License"

According to this Maui News article, the book “The Colony: The Harrowing True Story of the Exiles of Molokai" has come under fire for taking artistic liberties and improper useage of references, plus accusations that some folks at Kalaupapa never wanted to be mentioned in the book. Seeing that this book has been cited in the references section, I now question if some information from this book has somehow been intergrated into the article itself and has "poisoned" the article as such.--293.xx.xxx.xx 08:04, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The issue has been written about in this Honolulu Advertiser story, which found the allegations of "artistic license" to be without merit. Though Father Damien occupies only a limited spot in "The Colony," the notes and bibliography sections of the book provide a valuable resource for researchers interested in the priest's life.

See below. --293.xx.xxx.xx 08:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Source Book possibly not Factually Accurate, Removed from Sources

The Book The Colony: The Harrowing True Story of The Exiles of Molokai, by John Tayman, has come under scrutiny that the author has taken artistic license to various parts of his book and misappropiated references. Due to this, coupled with anger by surviving residents of Kalaupapa, the book will be removed from the list of sources untill further proof can be made that the book is factually accurate and all disputes have been resolved. --293.xx.xxx.xx 08:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sunlight at San Francisco

I doubt that this is of any importance being that this is an article about Blessed Damien, but there was a story from March 1937 in the Hearst San Francisco Examiner about how when Damien's coffin was brought to the docks for transport back to Belgium--he had been exhumed from Hawaii--a ray of sunlight allegedly broke through the sky and landed on the coffin! Quite a story, though perhaps not cogent to the article. Great nonetheless. Another, which is related to the process of his canonization is entitled "Church examines Damien's miracles", from the Honolulu Star-Bulletin dated March 29, 2003. It relates to a "Mrs.K" who was allegedly healed of a form of lung cancer after visiting the former grave of Blessed Damien in Hawaii. Interesting article for those of us Catholics who struggle with belief! Great wikipage so far, though. Does service to a great man of God.

[edit] Venerated by

I left the reference to Father Damien being venerated by Anglican Churches as there as several shrines in the Anglican/Episcopal world dedicated to this incredible man, whos history of ministry is to this day a great comfort. For one example view [1] the "Damien Chapel" in this church in Hollywood, USA.

[edit] Leprosy contraction and death

Damien's own contraction of leprosy, and his subsequent death from it, is highly pertinent and shows the lengths to which he was willing to go in his service. Why is this not mentioned in the article? Softlavender 22:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image

Wikipedia has gone to great lengths to find good pictures for articles about evil dictators like Idi Amin and Pol Pot. Why does this article use such an uncomplementary picture of Father Damien? --Folklorum (talk) 16:19, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Medical Journal

The Hawaii Medical Journal, 2000 Oct contains the article used as evidence during the Father Damien inquiry. The title of the article is "Complete spontaneous regression of cancer: four case reports, review of literature, and discussion of possible mechanisms involved" by W Y Chang. Here is a citation:

Spontaneous regression or remission (SR) of cancers has been defined as the disappearance of the malignancies without any treatment or with obviously inadequate treatment. Four case reports are presented. These include a case of pleomorphic liposarcoma with bilateral lung metastases, a case of recurrent squamous cell carcinoma of the esophagus following esophagectomy a year earlier, a case of a squamous cell carcinoma of the scalp, and a case of a ruptured hepatocellular carcinoma with an emergency right hepatic lobectomy but with some gross cancer remaining in the left hepatic lobe. The literature of SR of cancers was reviewed and various mechanisms possibly involved in the disappearance of the cancers were discussed. Although immune modulation has been stated to be the most likely process causing SR, other mechanisms, such as genetic therapy, withdrawal of carcinogens, infection, fever and vaccine roles, apoptosis, antibody, antiangiogenesis and maturation mechanisms, withdrawal of therapy, natural killer activity, endocrine, hormonal, and pregnancy factors, and prayers or psychoneuro-religious participation were also mentioned. Induction and inhibition of malignant protein expression and repair of gene damage may prove to be the more important processes in cancer regression. It was also pointed out that the pulmonary metastases of the liposarcoma and the recurrent squamous cell carcinoma of the esophagus may be the very first cases of their kind to be described and that it is rare indeed to find 4 cases of SR's in a solo practice. Finally, it is likely that SR is rarer than previously believed and that the incidence may be one in every 140,000 cases of cancer rather the one per 60,000 to 100,000 cancer cases as earlier thought.

There can be no doubt now. Journal Reader (talk) 22:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

The phrase "also mentioned" does not help. Also the statistic about the rate of spontaneous remissions is not profound enough to warrant inclusion. Monticello Fellow (talk) 23:09, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Error in Reference

The current reference 8 in the article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=563316&in_page_id=1811 contains an error. It states that the healed woman in Hawaii "prayed for healing at his graveside in Molokai, Hawaii" but as we know, Father Damien's body was moved to Belgium in the 1930s. We can't control what they print, but perhaps we should not use that reference any longer. Repentance 23:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Father Damien Miracles

The article states "In April 2008 the Vatican ruled that Father Damien was indeed responsible for several miracles attributed to him." Is there any documenation for the existence of "several" miracles? I have only seen two mentioned in other sources. One is associated with the Hawaii Medical Journal case, documented above (which now has some concerns associated with it). The other one I am aware of is Sister Simplicia Hue of France in 1895 recovering from intestinal illness. Are there really more cases, amounting to "several"? Queasy Rider (talk) 22:49, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

changed "several" to "two" miracles in the article. Monticello Fellow (talk) 15:57, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Then we should describe the evidence for the two miracles in the article. Bebopadopoulos (talk) 23:31, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Father Damien's Faults

Robert Louis Stevenson's defense of Father Damien is appropriately included in this article, but Stevenson also included a graphic list of Damien's faults. Some of Stevenson's surprising descriptions of Father Damien (gained from his questioning of Kalaupapa residents over several days) were that Damien was "shrewd, ignorant and bigoted", "grumbling", "essentially indiscreet and officious", "domineering in all his ways", "incurably unpopular with the Kanakas (Hawaiians)", "destitute of real authority", and wrote of Damien's "lack of control" and of his "slovenly ways and false ideas of hygiene". Stevenson also wrote that "his boys laughed at him", "he must carry out his wishes by the means of bribes". An amazing contrast from the same author. Full text at http://www.fullbooks.com/Father-Damien.html Journal Reader (talk) 21:07, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Good find. The article needed some balance. Sister7 (talk) 22:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)