Talk:Farang

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I cannot find it at the moment, but I have read in different places that the word Farang dates back much farther then the 17th century and that it comes from other words. Francais -> Farangset is just a coincidence. I will see if I can find it again. Also kee nok refers more to someone being stinchy. Bird shit is white! Hence it is used more to refer to a white foreigner being stinchy. Thais themselves will say Kee niauw. Waerth 13:40, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Kee nok seems to have a range of meanings; I've updated the article to reflect that. Markalexander100 03:18, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

  • "Farang ta nam khao" Th: ฝรั่งตาน้ำข้าว) means blue-eyed farang, according to my wife. The Thai language is one that has had trouble distinguishing blue from green. The default word for Blue was recently สีน้ำเงิน literally, the colour of silver, a poetical reference to the silvery sheen of the deep blue sea. It now means Navy Blue, and the default word is now สีฟ้า literally, the colour of the sky, acording to Blue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pawyilee (talk • contribs) 13:45, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Origin of Farang

When Siam first open its door to trade with Europeans in Ayutthaya period, a land was given to the Portuguese merchants to conduct their business at "Baan Faraang" (Guava Village, these is a common naming conventions of village to name the locale by what ever is in abundance there) Thus the Europeans are referred to as Farangs ever since. I'll put this in to the article if nobody would dispute it.

Can you give a reference? Markalexander100 00:35, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I haven't got anything on my hands at the moment, but if you can read Thai, check out high school history text books, (it's been a while since I've seen one of those) --Bobbagum 11:14, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've added it to the article, giving them as alternative explanations. I suspect they're both just best guesses. Markalexander100 02:26, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've read somewhere that it's actually derived from the Persian word mentioned here, which is in turn derived from a similar-sounding Arabic word derived from "Frank"(i.e. the Franks).

There was a discussion back in 1993/1994 in usenet-newsgroup "soc.culture.thai" about Origin of the word "Farang". That discussion is still available under [1] and [2]. --hdamm 11:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

George A. Sioris in his 1998 article, PHAULKON, THE GREEK FIRST COUNSELLOR AT THE COURT OF SIAM: AN APPRAISAL, says

1688, Jan - The French soldiers become increasingly unpopular with the Thais due to their display of racist and insolent attitudes. Anti-foreign organizations are born and the religious prejudices of the people are likewise aroused. It should be noted that the term used by Thais until today for western foreigners is farang, an abbreviation of the original farangse - the Thai word for the French (Francais in French). The term farang had a negative connotation until after World War II.

Posted by Pawyilee (talk) 19:35, 1 April 2008 (UTC)


As the diskussion is still going on, I'd like to cite from my post above Mr. Gwyn Williams, Department of Linguistics, Faculty of Liberal Arts, Thammasat University what he wrote back in March 1994 in the usenet grout soc.culture.thai:

ORIGIN OF THE WORD "FARANG"

A wide-spread belief in Thailand is that the word "farang" (Caucasian) is derived from the French word "francais". This derivation is implausible on phonetic and historical grounds. It is in fact a popular misconception. It is true, however, that these words have the same ultimate source.

The word is attested in various forms in languages in Europe, Africa, the Middle East, South Asia, and Southeast Asia. It is clear that the word orginated as "Frank" in Europe and spread eastwards along Muslim trade routes.

Thai most likely borrowed the word from influential Muslim Persian or Indian traders in the 17th century or even earlier. The Persian word was "farangg". The term probably was used to refer to early Portuguese traders and subsequently to all Europeans (ie., non-Muslims).

It is possible that the Thai word "farangset" ("French") is a blend of the word "farang" and the French word "francais", ie., "farangset" is actually derived from "farang", not vice versa. Certainly, the word "farang" existed prior to, and independently of, "farangset".

Mr. Gwyn Williams Department of Linguistics Faculty of Liberal Arts Thammasat University March 26, 1994

If you're interested in the rest of the conversation, it is here and here --hdamm (talk) 14:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I find myself agreeing with both positions: "farang" existed prior to, and independently of, "farangset"; amongst Muslims, the Franks had already given it a bad odor; then the "farangset" in the time of Narai really made it stink. (Rev. comment) Pawyilee (talk) 13:20, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
PS: Frankly, I'm surprised nothing is said about what it means to be perfectly frank. Pawyilee (talk) 13:20, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Maan farang and mhak farang

Maan farang (potatoes) and mhak farang (chewing gum) with the word farang refer to something imported. Since there are different Maan (another potato type) and Mhak (chewing stuff) in Thailand before, so when the potatoes and chewing gums were introduced in Thailand, they're assigned the name "farang." - User:Manop

[edit] literature and films

Sounds like an advertisement for Christopher Moore to me? His books are from the perspective of a foreigner living in Thailand. This article is about a Thai word for people like that, not about the people themselves, nor about their perspectives. Any resistance to removing this section? maxsch (talk) 03:12, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Keenok

ขี้นกสร้อยนกเขาทะเลข้างตะเภา PAINTED SWEETLIPS Diagramma pictum ลักษณะ ทั่วไป : เป็นปลาทะเล ที่มีขนาดค่อนข้างใหญ่ ลำตัวค่อนข้างยาว ด้านบน แบน ข้าง สันหลัง โค้ง นูน ท้องแบน เรียบ ปาก เล็ก มี ริม ปาก หนา มี ฟัน ขนาดเล็ก บน ขากรรไกร ทั้งสอง ข้าง ใต้ คาง มี รูพรุน 6 รู เกล็ด มี ขนาดเล็ก ปกคลุม ตลอด ลำตัว และ หัว สี ลำตัว จะ เปลี่ยนแปลง ไป ตาม ขนาด อายุ ของ ปลา คือ ปลา ขนาดเล็ก ลำตัว มี สี ขาว ส่วนหัว ด้านบน สี เหลือง และ มี แถบ สีน้ำตาล ปน ดำ 5 แถบ พาด ไป ตาม ความ ยาว ลำตัว เมื่อ มี ขนาดใหญ่ ขึ้น แถบ สี จะ จางหาย ไป และ มี จุด สีน้ำตาล ปน ดำปรา กฎ ขึ้นมา แทน และ จุด สี จะ จางหาย ไป เมื่อ ปลา อายุ มากขึ้น ถิ่น อาศัย : อาศัย อยู่ ตาม หน้า ดิน หรือ แนว ปะการัง พบ ทั่วไป บริเวณ ชาย ฝั่งทะเล ทั้ง อ่าวไทย และ ทะเล อัน ดามัน อาหาร : กิน ปลา และ สัตว์น้ำ ที่ อาศัย อยู่ ตาม หน้า ดิน และ แนว ปะการัง ขนาด : ความ ยาว ประมาณ 35-45 ซ. ม. แต่ เคย พบ ว่า บาง ตัว มี ความ ยาว ถึง 60 ซ. ม. ประโยชน์ : เนื้อ ใช้ ปรุงอาหาร

http://www.amonline.net.au/FISHES/fishfacts/fish/dpictum.htm Painted Sweetlips Diagramma pictum (Thunberg, 1792) Painted Sweetlips Above and below: Painted Sweetlips at a depth of 22 m, Maewo Island, Asanvari Bay, Vanuatu, July 2003. Photo: E. Schlögl. View larger image. Painted Sweetlips Photo: E. Schlögl. View larger image. Painted Sweetlips A Painted Sweetlips at a depth of 30 m, Maewo Island, Asanvari Bay, Vanuatu, July 2003. Photo: E. Schlögl. View larger image.

Adult Painted Sweetlips are blue-grey with yellow to golden spots on the head, body and fins. The spots on the head often form lines.

It grows to about 1 m in length, but is common to 45 cm.

The species occurs in tropical waters of the Indo-West and Central Pacific. It is found in coastal and sandy reef areas in depths to 80 m.

It is not known from Australian waters.

The Painted Sweetlips feeds on bottom-dwelling invertebrates and small fishes.

The species is related to the Slate Sweetlips (D. labiosum). Another species with yellowish spots is the Gold-spotted Sweetlips. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pawyilee (talk • contribs) 16:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] map

It would be better if the map only highlighted countries with mostly European-descended citizens. Right now it looks like most farang come from China, but a Chinese person would never be thought of as a farang. 68.160.11.155 (talk) 16:03, 22 February 2008 (UTC)