Talk:Fantaisie-Impromptu

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This Moonlight stuff isn't exactly right. First off, it just happens to be in the same key as Moonlight, which is already going to cause similarities. Second, the Moonlight piece is written in very slow triplets, as apposed to Chopin's very fast sextuplets. Third,the right hand plays the triplets in Moonlight, and the left hand plays the sextuplets in Fantaisie-Impromptu. Lastly, The Monlight triplets are the melody backed by the right hand playing chords(harmony), and Fantaisie-Impromptu's sextubplets(Harmony) are played behind cut time sixteenth notes(Melody)

ahhhh its exactly the same, i was sad enough to check it. regardless of what context theyre in, theyre the same notes/melody. debussy can copy henry purcells melody but just change it into c minor and in 3 time.

the person who wrote the first para: you're talking about movement ONE of Moonlight sonata. the copy thing is directed at movement THREE.

I've been playing piano for 7 years and I can play both pieces, but I'm not sure about which stuffs you're talking. Could you please give me the numbers of them?

1 The most important thing?
2 Fantaisie-Impromptu or Fantasie-Impromptu?
3 Moonlight Sonata bit
4 Citations
5 Bach's Moonlight Sonata???

[edit] The most important thing?

I changed a sentence in the article. It seemed subjective and not entirely true. Original sentence: "However, the most important thing to consider was that Chopin wrote this piece at an incredibly young age." New sentence: "However, perhaps the most impressive factor to consider is that Chopin wrote this piece at an incredibly young age." Hope that was okay. Chavila 19:16, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I've removed that whole sentence. It violates the neutral point of view policy no matter how it is phrased - stating that he was young when he composed it is enough. Graham87 04:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay, good. Chavila 19:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Can someone please get ride of the use of the term "semiquaver"? It may be standard British usage but hardly any Americans will know the term...and there are a few more of us...plus "sixteenth-note matches German and Polish terminology.

[edit] Fantaisie-Impromptu or Fantasie-Impromptu?

The title and the first sentence disagree in spelling. Which is it? DavidRF 01:53, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

In Japanese resarch,"Fantasie-Impromptu" is usual.As like the page----Kaori Makube 07:49, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

My Dover Edition English score book says: Fantaisie-Impromptu. Eigeldinger's "Chopin Pianist and teacher as seen by his pupils" also writes "Fantaisie-Impromptu". Looks like the French type spelling is used even in English books. Perhaps similar to the fact that we call his songs Ballades instead of Ballads. Janderk 08:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moonlight Sonata bit

I am removing the following information:

"It is speculated that Chopin thought the piece too much like Ludwig van Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata, and refused to publish it while alive because of this."

Reasoning:

1. It contains weasel words (It is speculated)
2. In reality the piece is nothing like the 14th Sonata by Beethoven.

Aside from key the pieces are wildly different. I speculate that this bit was put in here by someone who noticed the similarities at the very beginning of the Adagio Sostenuto and the Fantaisie-Impromptu, and then decided to put it in.

3. Because of this, I'm fairly certain it's original research. I have never heard anything else about the piece 'being too much like' the Beethoven sonata.

Please do not add the section back in, unless you can verify it by a reliable source. --Chopin-Ate-Liszt! (talk) 00:22, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Although I agree with your point about the "weasel words" (i.e. "it is speculated" -- who's doing the speculating?), something does have to be said about the relationship with Beethoven's Fourteenth Sonata and the Fantaisie-Impromptu, in particular the striking resemblance of the melodic fragment first introduced in measures 7 & 8 to the "cadenza" of the third movement of Beethoven's "Moonlight" Sonata:

Melodic fragment (introduced in measures 7-8), Chopin's Fantaisie-Impromptu

Cadenza (measure 188), Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 14, third movement

You'll notice that the descending line is precisely the same, except that in Chopin it begins an octave higher. I have no idea whether this is the reason Chopin was uncomfortable with publishing the piece; but regardless, it's pretty clear that this part of the melody was lifted from Beethoven. (Of course, to Chopin's credit, the fragment serves very different ends in his piece than it does in Beethoven's.) It would be interesting to know whether Chopin composed the Fantaisie-Impromptu beginning with this fragment, or whether it was added in later. (My money would be on the former.) --Todeswalzer|Talk 03:32, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't make too much of this. For one thing, it is not *precisely* the same: the rhythm is different (the on-beat notes are different) and the passages end differently. I suppose it's possible that Chopin may have been subconsciously influenced by Beethoven; but so were lots of composers so influenced by others. This kind of figuration was very common in music from about Beethoven onwards for the next hundred years, and is little more than a standard method of decorating a diminished-7th chord by interspersing the main notes of the chord with notes one step upwards, and this kind of thing was almost a part of the musical language of the time.

I so much take this for granted that, although I've known both pieces well for most of my life, I've never before noticed this similarity. Of course the music is so totally different in most other respects, so the context of this similar bit is completely different.

But I guess we'll never know whether this resemblance could have been a reason Chopin didn't want the piece published. M.J.E. (talk) 21:15, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I should point out that the passage I've included from Beethoven is from the "cadenza", and so the precise rhythm, as notated, reflects the interpretation of editors and is not exactly what Beethoven wrote (he notated the entire thing in small notes). I of course also realized that the passage is just a decorated diminished seventh; however, I'm not sure I can completely agree with you that "this kind of thing was almost a part of the musical language of the time". Perhaps you could offer a few counterexamples -- most preferably in C-sharp minor -- of pieces where this figuration also occurs? --Todeswalzer|Talk 01:07, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

The information has been added back in; I've put a citation request on it but having seen this section of the talk page I don't think anyone would take it amiss if it was removed wholesale. Mallocks (talk) 10:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citations

The pop culture references have no citations. In fact- the entire article has no citations. I'm putting up a "Article needs references" tag. Once we've acquired them, by all means, take it down. --Chopin-Ate-Liszt! (talk) 00:38, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I added the bit about "Fantaisie-Impromptu" featuring in the film "Lost in the Desert". I don't know how I would add a citation for this: I have the D.V.D. myself, and know this is true; so if the D.V.D. itself doesn't count as a citation, I don't know what else I can do about it. M.J.E. (talk) 13:22, 23 January 2008 (UTC)