Talk:Fallen Astronaut

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course this is an outdoor sculpture. There is no "indoors" on the Moon. JIP | Talk 18:26, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

The link to the High Res photo at NASA is returning a 404 (12-6-2006)

My question is whether the American flag on the moon is art.Kondspi 22:27, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

A flag is a symbol, not a piece of art... So the answer would be no. Check-Six 22:44, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not only art on moon

There's a secret art exhibit that was snuck onto the moon. NY Times coverage of it can be seen at http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70811F93E591A7493C0AB178AD95F4D8685F9&scp=1&sq=art+on+the+moon%3F&st=p

It's also been written about on greg.org: http://greg.org/archive/2008/02/28/the_moon_museum.html

I'm removing the reference to Fallen Astronaut as being the only art on the moon. Simenzo (talk) 01:54, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citation Needed

Can someone supply an actual citation for the interview in De Morgen? Dthvt 02:41, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 950 Fallen Astronauts

The article Fallen Astronaut and Paul Van Hoeydonck contains since long the claim;

In May 1972, Scott learned that Van Hoeydonck planned to make more replicas and sell them. Feeling that this would be a violation of the spirit of their agreement, Scott tried to persuade Van Hoeydonck to refrain, but was unsuccessful; 950 signed replicas went on sale for $750 apiece at the Waddell Gallery of New York.

I, Walter, have been in extensive contact with knowledgeable people regarding this topic after receiving an email about this part in bold on the dutch language OTRS queue.

The information I have received states that it is incorrect that "950 signed replicas went on sale for $750 apiece at the Waddell Gallery of New York". It is true that there where plans to do this and even advertisement for is was made. But after very negative responds by the NASA Paul Van Hoeydonck retracted his permission. No replicas where sold.

The persons with who I am in contact have written a letter after reading this claim on Wikipedia to Paul Van Hoeydonck to ask of that was correct about those 950 copies that where supposed to be sold for $750 a piece. Paul Van Hoeydonck has send that letter back with a handwritten responds on it. Paul Van Hoeydonck writes that only 50 replicas where ever made. Most of those are still unsigned in the possession by Paul Van Hoeydonck. Around 12 are at various places. Paul Van Hoeydonck writes that he has never received any money for those replaces, except for one.

A scan of this letter is in OTRS Responds by Paul Van Hoeydonck

The emails regarding this are under Ticket#: 2007111010011079

I am further contact to see how the information provided best can be included, mainly a question of copyright and privacy matters. For now the claim about the 950 copies sold (with no source) must/can not be included.

This claim basically says that Paul Van Hoeydonck has acted dishonorable, broke his word and sold out for the money. Before one claims that you must have very good proof. We have now a scan of letter written by Paul Van Hoeydonck refuting this. I find that a good source. (there are also other sources listed in the emails, specialized art books). --Walter 20:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Unable to access your evidence - Please place it in a more accessible format... Check-Six 03:37, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I am in the process of trying to arrange that. But that the sources are readable and available to all online is best but not necessary. I point to information in OTRS, like also is done for permissions for pictures. WMF OTRS staff can access that. Besides this I have also received sources from a book and the text fragments about this topic supporting this. But you can not read that online. It is a dutch language artbook published in 1980. I have found it in the collection of 3 public libraries in Flanders. I add the book as source to the article. --Walter 10:47, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Relevant information; NASA News Release 72-189 - This report from the NASA states that "The 950 replicas of the "Fallen Astronaut" figurine signed by the sculptor have been advertised for sale by the Waddell Gallery of New York at a price of $750 apiece." This in not disputed by Paul Van Hoeydonck. Only that the advertised plans where executed. --Walter 00:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I'm from it.wp and have access to OTRS: how can I control source? (all mails are written in a language that I do not understand) DracoRoboter 17:01, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

It is true that this is not convenient but that is a problem that everybody has depending about what it is about and from where. If you can not read it yourself then you will need to trust on others who can. --Walter 17:23, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, what if I will not? (Just asking...) Sorry but you just wrote "change it is wrong" in it.wp and someone ask me why. I think I have to answer something more reliable than "momma said" DracoRoboter 17:38, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Turn it around. I say I have information saying it is wrong about those 950 copies sold. In Wikipedia the information in the articles is supposed to be backed up by sources. There is no source listed that says the 950 copies where sold. There is only a source saying that this was advertised. This results in that the article can say the where sold. That would be against core Wikipedia princyple. You do not need to proof something is wrong, you need to proof something is correct. --Walter 18:42, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I expect to have soon permission to put some info online in public and I will put translations with it. --Walter 18:57, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Walter, you can e-mail me at webmaster@check-six.com, and I will host your evidence for public view. Check-Six 20:04, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

This is about privacy and permission, not about hosting facilities. I have the necessary permissions. The letter is on commons. Image:Brief Jan Stalmans - Paul Van Hoeydonck 11-09-2007.jpg --Walter 20:42, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I have also put some more information about the book source on that page commons:Image:Brief_Jan_Stalmans_-_Paul_Van_Hoeydonck_11-09-2007.jpg#Other_relevant_source --Walter 13:17, 12 November 2007 (UTC)