Talk:Fall Out Boy/Archive 2

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[edit] They are Pop Rock

I'm putting my two bits in on what their genre actually is.

First of all, they are NOT emo. At all. I can't believe you people are even debating this as a possibility. So what if their fans call them emo? Citing them as a reason to call the band emo is an Appeal to Popularity and a fallacy. Emotive hardcore is NOT an obscure genre, and Fall Out Boy is not a part of it.

They are not pop "punk" either. To say that they are pop "punk" presumes that they actually sound like punk music in some way. This are pop rock. The pop punk section of wikipedia needs a ton of editing, I can't believe Good Charlotte is listed under it.

They're not alternative rock because it implies, at its core, the opposite of pop. Eshmasesh 16:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Who gets to choose, then, if the fans don't count, the media don't count (Emo was referenced before someone removed it), and we've all agreed the band themselves don't count? Why is your opinion more accurate than MTVs? It's not that I don't agree with you, it's that somewhere, we need a reference or an accurate way to decide which genre/s they belong in. The referenced alternative rock/pop punk/emo was the closest we had. Iorek85 22:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't matter what people say they are. It matters what they are. If the fans and media said they were country, it wouldn't make them country because their music sounds nothing like country. Same premise here. They play what they play, and what they play is pop rock. It is not my opinion, it is a fact based on how genres are defined. The constant quibbling in discussions and inability to stop people who don't understand musical genres from winning is why so many people hate sourcing wikipedia for band genres.Eshmasesh 14:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
But you're still not solving the problem - you're saying "They are pop rock because I say so". We can't reference 'Eshmasesh' in the article, and no amount of arguing will convince others that you're right. Hence why we need references. Iorek85 22:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Pete wentz is the face of fall out boy. tapnjazzdncrTapnjazzdncr 21:41, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Who fucking cares?

[edit] Infobox instruments

I don't think that the intruments should be listed alongside the names of band members in the infobox. WikiProject Musicians says that infoboxes should have "Current members of the group, listed in order of joining with no other notation than names." I'm going to change it. Lebroyl 23:07, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ack.

Massive sorrys on the touring bit. I'm a Nintendo gamer, so I thought it was interesting.

Again, many sorrys.

--NapalmRiot 22:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] new genre

why dont you people make a new genre insted of complaining about other ones

alternative punk maybe? 84.12.164.68 16:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

They are neither Alternative nor Punk. So no. I can't believe you're even suggesting that they're punk.

"Dance, Dance, We're falling apart to half time, Dance, Dance, And these are the lives you'd love to lead, Dance, this is the way they'd love If they knew how misery loved me."

So punk! </3168.28.136.11 01:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

they call it softxcore themselves, why not just put it as that? Oroneko 04:49, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

They are just Pop-Punk, mainly pop really, lets face there not deffinatly not emo, sure they dress pretty emo and all that, but lyrically wise they arnt.

They're mainly pop because they are ALL pop. There's nothing even VAGUELY punk-ish about ANY of their music. To say otherwise suggest you don't even know what punk is, not too unlike the people that will call everything emo.Eshmasesh

[edit] Atavan Halen?

I Don't think That 7 Minutes In Heaven Is The Right Song? I Think It's "I've Got A Dark Alley And A Bad Idea That Says You Should Shut Your Mouth" (Summer Song). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.107.126.3 (talk) 16:09, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

I'm thinking the person above me is meaning that for the song about Pete's suicide. I've checked the history, and it has at one point changed from "I've Got A Dark Alley And A Bad Idea That Says You Should Shut Your Mouth (Summer Song)" to "7 Minutes in Heaven". Could some change this 'cause, y'know... I can't.

the song pete wrote about his sucide is "i've got a dark ally....." but the artice still says its 7 minutes in heaven. i would change it but i cant. loz 07:29, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

is there any place where we can find the real answer? like, any really credible places? because, yknow, it would help. okay. --P!@tD Girly! 21:03, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] hows this evidence

ok http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgofC-dp5C0 pete says pop punk in that video there so is this the end wtf genre are fallout boy 84.12.172.94 16:13, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

I think the bullet point on the whole 'peengate' incident needs a little attention. I don't know alot about what hapened but I've never read anything about the bandmates being suspects, I seriously doubt they would be responsible for something that hurt Pete so much. The way it's written isn't all that encyclopaedic either. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.149.184.189 (talk) 17:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

shoud any more trivia be added? and is the last comment about pete really needed. or maybe it could be re-worded loz 07:27, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

It should be added that in "Epic Movie", during one scene the White Bitch was looking at her Myspace account and under "general" she had listed "Killing, Maiming, Listening to Fall Out Boy".

[edit] Fall Out Boy is not emo

i come and look at this article sometimes and it says emo as one of their genres. people need to stop adding emo!

It's really a question of what genre the band would like to be thought of. They don't like being called emo, and we should respect the band for what they want to be called.70.23.148.224 14:00, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if its really up to the band. Nirvana probly would have liked to be called Punk but they will always be remembered as grunge just as fall out boy will always be rememberd as emo

Nirvana was grunge. Fall Out Boy is Pop-rock. No where near emo

i will admit that fall out boy are emo if all the emos that are in love with mcr admit that mcr are an emo band. i mean fall out boy do have the lyrics "with hearts and wrists intact" i think people need to just get over the fatc that they could be emo

[edit] Infinity On High

+The article should include the fact that Fall Out Boy has teamed up with Abercrombie Finch for the release of the new cd. If you buy the new cd at Abercrombie Finch you get a free Fall Out Boy t-shirt with the purchase Blueboi86 16:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I haven't heard anything about that, and they didn't mention it on fob's website. i don't think that's true, and if you're telling the truth, little odd that you spelled the name of the store wrong. and if they did team up with a store, why would they choose that store? i'm pretty sure they would choose Hot Topic... i really don't think they would team up with any stores like aberombie Greendayrox 01:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

pete wentz did an ad for the gap. i never heard of the a&f thing, but i wouldnt say its wrong just because the band doesnt seem to match the store. all my friends that like fob shop at those kinda stores anyway.Evaunit666 02:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

the store is actuall AEROPOSTALE, and yes you do get a free shirt as a result of buying the album

If you buy it from Wal-Mart you get a promotinoal code that you can use to download a bonus track, "It's Hard To Say 'I do' When I Don't" 75.177.87.135 00:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC) [AKA FinalWish! At the Library

[edit] Pre-TTTYG members

It's been stated by both the band and on the page that Andy Hurley joined after Evening.... and as such, he isn't present on the cover. However, two 'mystery men' are. Are these the pre-Hurley members, and, if so, shouldn't they be added to a "Past members" section on the page? (The-kid-was-alright 06:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC))

yes, i think it should. it didn't say their names anywhere in the cd though, so i don't know what to put. someone else can put that, if you can think of what to write. (and there was a girl on the cover of the cd too) Greendayrox 01:07, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the girl was just there to imply that FOB were "out with your girlfriend"...maybe put it on the Evening Out With Your Girlfriend page? The band seem to not want to divulge the names of these guys...or else nobody's ever asked them. (The-kid-was-alright 06:34, 5 February 2007 (UTC))

i've been looking all over not in one place any where can i find the names of the pre-andy members. it's like there never were any at all. like history rewrote its self to take them out.66.125.96.44 00:13, 3 April 2007 (UTC)AndyDay

[edit] Songs relating to the titles

Hum Hallejujah anybody..? Thnks fr th mmrs? Golden?

These all state the title quite clearly in the lyrics! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The-kid-was-alright (talk • contribs) 06:31, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] There is more vandalism

This is a page for factual information and not personal opinion. The page currently is a short sentence about a particular writer not liking the band.

I would also say that you can talk about the controversies around the labels of "emo" etc rather than getting into something as pointless as attempting to categorize the bands based on a relatively arbitrary label. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jilly5001 (talk • contribs) 20:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC).


[edit] remove one word..

I think that to leave the description "[FOB] is a ((gay)) band..." is rather subjective and ought to be fixed.. gay is offensive and shouldnt be used as a derrogatory term in an objective environment..

Gay isn't offensive, don't be a chump, every homosexual I know actually quite likes being called gay.

what the hell, gay is usually considered offensive you twat. and just because some of your friends like being called gay, doesnt mean its allowed to be casually used on a wiki artical.

Riiiiight, and calling someone a twat isn't offensive? 69.214.215.127 07:13, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

(1) Gay is a socially accepted term for homosexual people, but the context in which you saw it was meant to be poking fun at the band. 24.159.205.132 22:24, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thriller and Thnks fr th mmrs

Anyone have any sources that these are actually planned to be future singles?? I heard the Takeover was the 2nd off IOH but it was on a forum and that isn't really a proper source. SilverNightFire 07:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


Thnks fr the mmrs is going to be the next single. It's on the radio now and its been the topic of much discussion on the FOBR boards since. The video will begin shooting in a few weeks.

Thriller and Take Over were never intended to be singles. They were only performed on AOL Sessions a few weeks before the album was released.

As of now, Arms Race and Thnks Fr Th Mmrs are the only singles off IOH. carpal tunnel of love has a video, but has not recieved adequate radio play and the video is only available online and is not being circulated through music stations.

- Vikki Feggulis [fueledbyvikki@cs.com] 22 February 2007

Yeah, which is why it was released as an "iTunes-only SINGLE". (The-kid-was-alright 05:34, 26 February 2007 (UTC))

isn't the carpal tunnel of love a digital single? PrincessOfHearts 23:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image help

Can someone familiar with this band edit commons:Image:Fall Out Boy 2006 1.jpg to identify which member is which? I have a number of pictures of this band released under a free license to upload, but I don't know who they are, and would like to identify the band members correctly. The drummer I can figure out. Thank you in advance. Jkelly 00:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


Umm...Ok.Peter Wentz has black hair and usually is sporting a clandestine hoodie.Patrick Stump always has a hat on.Joseph Trohman has short brown,kindof curley hair.And you know who Andy Hurley is. Tabbishea 18:19, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

ive seen the carpal video and its pretty disturbing

[edit] Blood??

Okay, what?!

It has also been heard that Fall Out Boy is planning to give away designs of different album covers for each day they tour. One person from each show will receive this prize. The twist is (and of course there is one), each piece of artwork will have been created with blood from each of the four members of the band.

Is that true??? That is so far-fetched-sounding. That shouldn't be in there if it's just a rumor. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by I Love Panic At the Disco529 (talk • contribs) 01:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

Woah.Where did you hear that?I really don't know if it is true or not though.Tabbishea 02:59, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

And I know this has nothing to do with the topic,but do you know how and where to listen to a b-side?Tabbishea 02:26, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, you take things too seriously. She read that on Pete's blog on their website. He was being SARCASTIC!!! Maybe I can understand it, because i am an extremely sarcastic person like he is. But don't believe everything you read on the internet. --MCRluvr 06:47, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

If it was just in his blog (which not everyone reads daily, fyi), it shouldn't have been put in the article. That's... well it's stupid, its vandalism, its just as bad as putting "oMg FaLl OuT bOy iS gAy!!!!!@!~11!" in there. Try and keep those things out, hmm? (Ps: I love the blog and am a sarcastic person too, i just didn't read that one.) --P!@tD Girly! 20:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

My computer won't let me read it since they got the new site set-up.Tabbishea 02:58, 23 March 2007 (UTC)


Don't believe these people, it is true. Pete & Patrick was just on TRL webcam today and they said that they will have start having blood drives at their concerts and something about signing their autographs with their blood. So yes it is true. PrincessOfHearts 19:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I know.I saw that.I really thought that he was joking,but I guess I was wrong.I think he is doing it for a good cause,though.Tabbishea 03:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I think the name Fall Out Boy is gay. i think they should get a new one.

Gosh.Just because you don't like their name doesn't mean that you have to call it 'gay'Tabbishea 02:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Precision Bass

Does anyone know how much The Squier Pere Wentz Precision Bass guitar is?Tabbishea 20:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I was just looking at it, you can check it out here http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Squier-Pete-Wentz-Signature-PBass?sku=515076 PrincessOfHearts 19:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

i've look normally around 275 and thats without strap and amp.66.125.96.44 00:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)AndyDay

Thanks.I couldn't find anything on it except pictures...Tabbishea 02:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Secret Show Name

I am at a disagreement with a person on another website. Does anyone know what name Fall Out Boy went under when there played their secret shows in New York?I was told that it was Saved Latin,and she says that it was Rushmore.Does anyone know?Tabbishea 23:43, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] selling out

should something be mentioned about how the the band is criticised for selling out, with the video for thnks fr th mmrs featuring heavy sponsirship from brands, and with honda civic Presents Fall out boy as the name of their new tour?

also, " They have also confirmed that they will choose 4 lucky girls to make sweet, sweet love to." Surelly this is just vandalism. if no, it doent need to be there anway.

Who really cares!? Its WIKIPEDIA! Its shweet!

i dont think the phrase "selling out" is the right phrase for wikipedia. the "advertising" in there videos could be diggs at other bands that heavily premote products

85.211.171.191 18:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] News links on Fall Out Boy page

Hi, I saw that the Fall Out Boy page has some links to interviews, but I thought the page could benefit from a link to an external resource with lots of fresh news. The news page at Shoutmouth.com contains more than 50 Fall Out Boy news stories over the past 3 months, and I think it's very good resource. I understand if you don't want to add the link -- but I do think it adds value. This is the news source I proposed adding to the FOB page: Fall Out Boy Newsbob

Stannersross 13:11, 10 April 2007 (UTC)Pete

[edit] Deleted

I deleted the genre "emo". There was a lot of arguing about it, but I did it.--Calario freebie 03:22, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] AWARDS???

YOUR TELLING ME FALL OUT BOY HAS NEVER BEEN NOMINATED OR EVEN WON AN AWARD??? THERE SHOULD BE A SECTION. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.15.48.50 (talk) 17:13, April 19, 2007

If you know they have, this would be a great opportunity for you to add something constructive to WIkipedia. --LaraLoveTalk/Contribs 21:00, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll do it. I found a website that has all of the awards they won and the nominations. PrincessOfHearts 22:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Choice Music - Rock Track for "Dance, Dance"
  • Choice Music - Single for "Dance, Dance"
  • Choice Music - Rock Group
  • MTV Video Music Award - Viewer's Choice "

Nominated for KCA's - Best Band

THIS NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT!!!

203.82.48.171 12:25, 20 June 2007 (UTC)Maroo

[edit] K of C

knights of columbus halls are prevelant thruout illinois, probably elsewhere as well. references to them playing one without specifics seems inaccurate

68.78.26.205 00:11, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Apperances on Cruel As School Children

Patrick Stump appeared in three songs by Gym Class Heroes. Not just Cupid's Chokehold and Clothes Off! He appeared in 7 Weeks also. So could you please change that. It is bothering me. HE APPEARED IN THREE SONGS!!!!!!!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.247.21.21 (talk) 16:59, 29 April 2007 (UTC).

only william beckett appears in 7 weeks.

  • One of the Wikipedia policies is Be Bold. If you have information, that is relavent to the article, add it. Signing up may be good also. - Noctrine 13:42, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I changed how they are Emo

People face it, the article says they are. and the majority of the people out there say they are. Okay? The lead singer of Motorhead calls his music "rock n roll" does that mean it's not Metal? Zephead999 05:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Please stop this. You're already getting a 24 hour ban for breaking the 3RR. Don't make it any worse for yourself. Zazaban 19:34, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Where does the name come from?

Wouldn't an explanation of the name Fall Out Boy be a good piece of info for the article? That's what I came here to look for.

  Vlad Tepes IV 15:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
They hint that it's a simpson's reference in this interview... Radioactive Man's sidekick Fallout Boy. This is the same interview where they say they're not pop punk.--Dr who1975 15:14, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't have a source to back this up, but it's been my understanding since before the release of Take This to Your Grave that, at a live show, they asked the audience for suggestions for their name, and Fall Out Boy was something somebody from the crowd yelled.

If there isnt a source to back it up then why has it been changed? The alternative explanation is the most likely but as there is no concrete evidence either way, that part should be removed as per the guidelines. Freddie McPhyll 13:26, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

There Just Pop Punk. I Saw On There MYSPACE —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.53.174.6 (talk) 23:36, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

They are still not pop punk. The words pop punk on that page are there for search purposes and mean "pop and punk" not "pop punk". I explained this in the article but somebody thought it best to remove it. Please see previous discussion.--Dr who1975 14:29, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

is big time whiny ass emo a genre?

didnt think so.

be constructive 88.106.209.221 20:00, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for spotting that. It was in place for two hours and is now fixed. --TeaDrinker 20:10, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
This is a controversial topic that may be under dispute. Please read this page and discuss substantial changes here before making them.
Make sure to supply full citations when adding information and consider tagging or removing uncited/unciteable information.

Removing the "disputed" tag from the article page and placing the original "controversial" tag here. It's not appropriate to have a disputed tag on the page considering there are valid references. But if anyone feels the need to argue about it further, this is the spot. Regards, LaraLoveT/C 06:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I think alternative rock is a good name for it, but shouldnt Pop Rock be considered? Although they have all the characteristics of the genre, the band stated that they are not a pop punk band, but to me i feel like pop rock is a genre befitting their music, as it has aspects of both realms especially on Infinity On High. 76.2.116.135 01:52, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Logo color

Why is there a block of light blue behind the logo. The file does not have that at all and where the image was taken from[1], there is a black background. I guess I'm looking at something wrong, but does anyone see why it's baby blue? Cnota 05:17, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] PICTURE??

ok is up with that crappy picture of them? it doesn't even have the whole band, you might as well just leave it blank. why can't you people use the promotional infinity on high photo? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.15.48.89 (talk) 18:38, May 16, 2007

Four tildes (~), sign your posts.
Infoboxes cannot contain copyrighted images of living persons, even with fair use rationales. As you can read above, there is a request for concert pictures including the entire band. If you are displeased with the current image, by all means, find a good one that has been released into the public domain and replace it. LaraLoveT/C 01:00, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism

I think that there should be a section in the article about critisism. Every FOB fan knows that Fall Out Boy gets criticized alot FOBaholic 02:09, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

This was also mentioned in the pre-GA nomination suggestions above. Feel free to contribute some sourced information. --LaraLoveT/C 04:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Has anyone criticised them for going on live earth (an anti-climate change tour) while going on a tour sponsored by Honda Civic (an anti-climate company)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.92.172.23 (talk) 08:55, May 24, 2007

That's a good point. Something to look into! LaraLoveT/C 18:24, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I doubt they have yet, since this year's tour is promoting the Civic Hybrid. Plus, they are giving away a Hybrid tonight's show (Monday, June 11). As for other criticism, if I recall correctly, in a interview with the Rolling Stone or SPIN mag, Patrick Stump stated that the band was accused of being a boyband. However, he counterstated by saying "Boyband?! Dude, I'm fat!" or something in the sense of those words.--Lostmeatthelost 22:12, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] spelling

ffs, can someone fix the spellibng of australia 58.165.148.113 08:57, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hum Hallelujah

This side have been protectet, so I can't change it, but "Hum Hallelujah" is for sure not the new single, according to a Q&A Pete Wentz has written on FOBR. "question: can you please end all the rumors right now... WHATS the next single?

--- oxox -ZOE asked by rckergal on May 29, 2007


answer: its not decided yet. but it will NOT be hum hallelujah. that songs means something on a different level to us. answered by peter on May 30, 2007"

Sorry for mistakes, im danish.

VANDALISM ON FALL OUT BOY PAGE.

[edit] Australia in 2005 2006

Fall out boy did not tour australia in any of these years they first toured australia this year in march.

[edit] What the hell is he saying

after suger were going down no one seems to under stand what he says in his songs if anybody can under stand him please tell me WTF he's saying

This might help. LaraLoveT/C 06:34, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Non-enclyclopedia language

In the intro section the sentance: In February 2007, the band released Infinity on High to major chart success, selling 260,000 copies its first week. The phrase "to major chart success" is point of view and should be removed or else cited as a quote attribuatble to someone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.137.35 (talk) 10:00, July 6, 2007

I fail to see how that's a point of view. If an album is more successful than others, then it hits major chart success. // DecaimientoPoético 16:21, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Fixed the problem. Consider the Billboard chart listing as the attributable quote. If #1 ain't major, then I'm not sure what is. LaraLoveT/C 05:23, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
P.S. Sign your posts, four tildes (~).

[edit] Inaccuracies

[Spuddy has chosen to self-censor most of her (yes, I am indeed a female) correspondences in this section as she feels the quarrel was frivolous and does not represent her in a true light. If you really want to read it, it's archived.]Spuddy 17 00:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Then source it to the interviews, otherwise I'm reverting the edits. Also, when moving discussions on the talk page (which I believe is discouraged), don't delete any content. LaraLove 05:24, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Whoa, let's not start an edit war. Now Spuddy, Lara has a point. Articles need to apply to verifiability standards. If you have important content you would like to add, you should source your info. Just add The article, tha date, and maybe it will turn up somewhere on the web (see WP:CITE#HOW and WP:CITET for guidelines). Otherwise, we can't know if it's correct. Just stay cool, and be bold. J-stan Talk 18:40, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks J-stan. Here's the thing, Spuddy, I posted exactly two sentences to you. The first being a notice that I would revert any unsourced edits (as it is WP policy) and the second making an observations that, as far as I'm aware, one should not move discussions or remove content. As for what you removed, I don't know. Comparing the versions did not make it easily clear what content was removed. And let's face it, my "almighty Internet-moderator-type" post to you could have been worse. Let's just be real... you were basically contradicting yourself. You stated that people need to stop making edits based upon their own research, then you try to justify your edits based upon your own research. If you got the information from an interview on a DVD, then source the DVD. Otherwise, as you just pointed out that making edits based upon ones own unsourced research is inappropriate, I'll revert those edits. If you would then like to "revert them right back" then have at it. Rather than get involved in an edit war, as J-stan suggested may happen, I'll just open an RFC. With that said, my comments to you have nothing to do with adminship. One does not have to be an admin to be a custodian over an article. As one of the custodians of this article, I'm not going to let OR sit. So perhaps you should take things less personally and lose your own attitude when addressing those who have spent much time cleaning up the article you're dropping OR into.
As far as sourcing "non-internet things", see WP:CITE. Not all references on WP are to other websites. Books, journals, newspapers, yearbooks, dissertations, press releases, videos, radio, television, etc. can all be sourced. If it exists and it's where you got your information, it can probably be sourced. Drop a line on my talk page if you need help doing this. I'll leave the info for a couple more days. If it's still unsourced, it's going to be removed. Regards, LaraLove 06:16, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Actually, moving discussions to the bottom of the talk page is fine. Instead of deleting conversations, they get archived. J-stan Talk 16:12, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
He has a point, Lara. You do have a condescending attitude in this section. Now Spuddy, Lara wouldn't have to take it upon herself to delete supposedly inaccurate info if there was a way to justify it. We can't source it, because we don't have the info that you do. Now we can end it here, with the article in it's current state, or Laralove can step aside for a moment, and Spuddy17 can add his info (With sources, mind you. See my above comment for links on how), thus improving the article. It's up to you two. But please - Let's be adults. J-stan Talk 20:24, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
If some believe I'm condescending, then so be it. I'm not changing my views. The fact that you wrote it two years ago, explains a bit. Standards for articles were much lower then, so I've been told. I'm hoping to eventually bring this article up to GA (maybe beyond), but that will never happen as long as there are editors who "don't take Wikipedia too seriously, especially not to spend time documenting [...] sources and whatnot." While it's not rare by any means to encounter editors who prefer to let others do the heavy lifting, so to speak, for them, I can't exactly go cite the references you used considering I don't know. I've never before seen an editor basically state that they can't be bothered to document their references. When you add to that the fact that you are opposed to the inclusion of original research, it's even more difficult to understand. Taking all your comments into account, you've basically said that you believe information added to an article needs to be attributed to a source, unless you're adding that information, in which case, including references is a waste of time. You call me condescending. What shall I call you? LaraLove 18:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
While you do have a point in that if editors can take the time to add content, it's their responsibility to source it, I would really like there to not be an argument over it all. I'm trying to mediate things to make the discussion go away from an edit war, and neither of you are helping by making personal attacks. J-stan Talk 19:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I appreciate your mediation efforts J-stan, but I would like to make a few points. First, I've not even reverted any of his changes to the article. Second, I already stated that I'm not getting involved in an edit war. I have somewhere around 3,500 edits, none of which include edit-warring. Third, I'm not making personal attacks. I'm making points. His edits and his comments do not make sense to me. There isn't a consistency. I appreciate that he's a custodian to this article and has been for some time, but he and I have differing goals for the article, it would seem. Mine seem to be supported by Wikipedia policy, while his do not. Also, if you look at the history of his talk page, there have been warnings to him about removing information from the article that other editors have added. He also removes comments from talk pages, and warning messages from his own, which is not appropriate. So don't get me wrong. I hope it doesn't further escalate, and I do apologize for coming off as condescending. If the bahavior continues, however, I assure you there will be no edit war and there will be no big argument. I'll take it to MedCab or the like myself. LaraLove 19:26, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
First of all, I misunderstood. I thought there was already the beginning of an edit war, with Spud making edits and you removing them. Second, I mistook some of your comments as attacks. "The fact that you wrote it two years ago, explains a bit. Standards for articles were much lower then" seems like you were making an attack on his contributions to this article, which I'm told are quite extensive.
If you feel you can handle it, I will step down as mediator. I gave it my best shot, you two can take it from here. J-stan Talk 20:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Oh, no no. My comment about the standards for articles being lower a couple years ago was not meant as an insult. As a WP:GA/R reviewer, I encounter articles that were promoted to GA in past years and I've been told, during my reviews which detail my bafflement, that the standards for articles (all, not just GAs) were much lower in previous years. So, it was an honest reply to his statement of when many of his edits were made. Looking back over some of the comments, I can see how my words can be misinterpreted, but that's where WP:AGF comes into play. As far as a potential revert war, please look over my first, two-sentence reply. I simply warned that I would remove any unreferenced additions and noted that I didn't think removing content from the talk page was appropriate. I've not yet reverted any of his edits. As far as you mediating, I can't tell if you seem offended by my reply above or not. I hope you don't misunderstand me, in that respect. I appreciate your efforts to mediate. I simply just don't think there is anything here that needs it. But if you do, mediate as you feel so compelled to. LaraLove 04:29, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I am not offended. I was simply replying. It seems as though spuddy has nothing more to say, so my work here is done. I appreciate your politeness, and you seem like you have a handle on things. J-stan Talk 18:33, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
LaraLove, might I suggest you taking a thorough look at my talk page before making the assumptions about my two "warnings." In fact, the only time I was "warned" was by user Sabian. He was posting extensive information on individual band members on the band's page. When I removed his edits I clearly stated that the information is more appropriate on that individual band member's page. During this time this user was in "edit wars" with many other users. He was upset with ANYONE who removed his edits, even if he was in the wrong and they were in the right. I do believe he was eventually blocked for a while. I would also love for you to point out where else on my page that I was "warned?" Perhaps you are talking about the incident with user Xdueledx? If you look at the current Fall Out Boy article, you would see that I was indeed the correct one in stating that Fall Out Boy's first album was entitled "Fall Out Boy's Evening Out with Your Girlfriend." She was incorrect yet was angry at me because I removed her incorrect information. So in a way, yes, she did "warn" me, but it turns out she was the wrong one, and I was the right one. And while I'm at it, regarding user EvianBoy, his remark on my page was meant for another user. He mistakenly put it on mine. Every other comment (besides yours) on my talk page can be categorized as correspondences with other users over general inquires or misunderstandings, all in which were resolved, or a user or bot remarking that I made a mistake in my edits. I have never removed anything on Wikipedia without good reason. As for my own talk page, I don't like to have anything on it. It's just the way I am. Wikipedia clearly states on the Talk page guidelines article that it is ok for users to remove comments from others on their own talk pages.
Back to the beginning of our little quarrel, perhaps I was too sensitive regarding your first comment to me. I apologize. I was having a bad week. I still do not agree with the way you addressed me. I do think you need to work on your Internet-interaction tone when dealing with situations you do not prefer. Thanks. Spuddy 17 00:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Group hug! J-stan Talk 00:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) Well, Spuddy, thank you for your apology and I, in turn, also apologize for sounding harsh or whatever. Many of my posts tend to be to the point, I really don't mean them to be rude or pretentious. My way of interacting with others probably won't change... that's just how I am. And I still don't agree with removing comments from any talk page. That's what strike-through and archiving are for. But, as is true with almost all things in WP, it's never fully deleted. I guess we'll just have our disagreements. Hopefully we can work together despite them. And I feel ya on the bad week. Regards, Lara♥Love 04:06, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
P.S. J-stan, you are a trip. Thanks for the mediation! :)

No problem, just helping out. I actually had to look up that usage of the word "trip", but I think I have found the right one, and so I thank you. :) J-stan Talk 14:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
ROFL XD Lara♥Love 16:34, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Legal Issues

Fall Out Boy did not have to "pay off" the band Give Up the Ghost. The former singer, Wesley Eisold, did indeed sue Fall Out Boy for allegedly stealing many verses and phrases from his work. Eisold and FOB settled out of court, and neither will comment on the situation, so we do not know what the outcome was. http://www.topix.net/content/kri/0980411516153724849637827183200482012072 Spuddy 17 22:33, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

It does appear that in the credits at the back of the accompanying book with Infinity, Wes Eisold is credited as co-writing "Golden", "The Carpal Tunnel of Love", and "Bang The Doldrums", but I don't know if it was a friendly accreditation, or the result of a legal action. J-stan Talk 22:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)\
Yeah. I think that's the whole issue. We don't know exactly what circumstance led to his name being there because they won't comment on the situation.Spuddy 17 22:47, 25 July 2007 (UTC)