Talk:Extreme pornography

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Should online petitions appear in the external links section? I appreciate that two are provided for balance, but their inclusion doesn't seem very encyclopaedic. Ben Whiteside 22:15, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Quote out of context?

The guardian quote seems to show them as being somewhat opposed to extreme pornography, it would perhaps be worth mentioning that the article it is taken from condemns the government's moves to ban extreme pornography, in fact the subtitle of the article in question is actually "The government should stay out of the bedroom - and the dungeon.".

[edit] Warning?

Possibly, but a warning at the top, saying this may disturb some people, as it defintaly did me. Just incase someone wanders here, and they read it, and get very "grossed out" or very disturbed. Please do so

What did you think an article named Extreme Pornography was going to entail? Prodster (talk) 16:57, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] not NPOV?

The Jane Longhurst Trust is a charitable company which seeks to make the Internet safer and raise awareness of the harmful effects of extreme pornography. I feel that sentence is not really NPOV. Nab —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.70.191.149 (talk) 03:52, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

I see what you mean, it implies extreme porn is harmful as a fact. I've removed it for now, and replaced it with text from their "Mission" on their webpage. Is that better? Mdwh 08:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge from Necrobabes, Graham Coutts, and Jane Longhurst

It was suggested to me that the three articles Necrobabes, Graham Coutts, and Jane Longhurst be merged into this one, and I think it's a good idea, since none is that well referenced or that notable enough on its own. I'm willing to carry out the merge if everyone agrees that it's a good idea. delldot talk 00:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

The murder of Jane Longhurst, and the issue of extreme pornography, are each notable in their own right (e.g., each have been mentioned in multiple national media, without reference to the other). Which parts do you feel are not well referenced? I agree regarding Necrobabes, this is not particularly notable on its own right. Mdwh 00:25, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with merging Jane Longhurst and Graham Coutts here. The murder is notable in its own right, as is the topic of "extreme pornography" (the murder would still be notable even if the Government wasn't making these plans), and has a lot of information specific to the murder and trial that is off-topic for this article (I'm not sure if the intent was that all the information on the case be dropped, or included here?) Also I fear there is the risk of undue weight if we end up dedicated a large section of this article to the Longhurst murder.

I think a better idea would be to merge Jane Longhurst and Graham Coutts together into their own article - this is what I've seen done before when you have articles for murderer and victim, with a lot of material repeated between them.

I don't have any strong objections to merging Necrobabes here (or to an article on Jane Longhurst and Graham Coutts) as the site is only notable in this context. However, again we have the problem that there's quite a lot of material in the article - is the intention to trim the information, of have it all in this article? Mdwh 00:23, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

This makes a lot of sense to me. What do others think of merging Jane Longhurst into Graham Coutts and merging Necrobabes here? delldot talk 00:38, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
About the question of the quite a lot of info, I'd say keep whatever we can reference and get rid of whatever we can't. I don't think it will be too terribly long even if we keep it all. About necrobabes, I'd suggest merging it here rather than to the Coutts article since there was another death having to do with that site. delldot talk 02:04, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, it's been a couple days and no other discussion, so I think I'll go ahead with the merges. delldot talk 15:06, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notability

(from Talk:Necrobabes, history still there)

I was hoping that I'd explained this well enough in the article - it clearly asserts: "the website has achieved notability in the United Kingdom in an attempt to criminalise possession of what the Government has termed extreme pornography."

The website alone originally probably didn't satisfy notability, but it has as a result of recent political debate in the United Kingdom, and has been cited in multiple mainstream media articles (some of which I've linked - I can happily provide more), as well as being mentioned in several debates in the House of Commons (already linked). (Please believe me that my intent here is not to get advertising for some website ;) - my focus is that of this controversy which has sprung up in the UK surrounding the website.)

At the least, I believe this needs to be discussed in an AfD (or here in Talk, first), and is not a suitable candidate for Speedy Delete. Mdwh 02:14, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Concur about speedy being incorrect - however, the notability assertion is weak and might not survive an AFD. --Sigma 7 02:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'll see what people say then. It's a bit of a difficult issue as the notability is not so much the website content directly, but the controversy surrounding it and attempts to ban it (e.g., being the subject of a campaign and Parliamentary debates); accordingly the article focuses on this, rather than the content in general. I don't know if the information would be better off in another existing article, or in an article of a different name. Mdwh 02:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Concur and removed speedy tag. This site easily meets WP:Notability due to the UK government deciding to go after it, as it was discussed in major UK media at that time. Perel 02:46, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spanner case

Just FYI ;-): In the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill 2007, the Government cited the Spanner case (Brown [1994] 1 AC 212) as justification for criminalising images of consensual acts, as part of its proposed criminalisation of possession of "extreme pornography". ref House of Commons:Criminal Justice And Immigration Bill ref .--Nemissimo (talk) 23:15, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Worldwide view?

As stated in the lead, this is an article about the political issue in the UK, so I'm not sure what is being asked for by a worldwide view? I don't know if the editor means non-UK details of "extreme pornography" in general - but that term is not well-defined (and very hard to define - obviously "extreme" is highly POV), and I feel it's better that this article should stick to the issue of the proposed law in the UK. Mdwh (talk) 00:32, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree, though we could look to see if any other countries follow suit. (Hypnosadist) 12:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unintended Consequences

A straightforward reading of the law implies that unprotected intercourse is "Extreme Pornography", since either participant might have HIV, which would certainly put the life of the other participant at risk. Since HIV tests aren't perfect, even that doesn't eliminate the risk.

But it would take quite a bit of care to explain that this is a poorly thought out law in a NPOV way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.141.50 (talk) 02:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

This is unfortunate, because this law is extremely badly thought out. Can anyone clarify whether this will also affect drawn images, cos i think lovers of H anime might be a bit upset about this as well. SirEelBiscuits (talk) 20:58, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
The images have to be "realistic" - so whilst acted/staged scenes are included, it won't cover drawings/cartoons/etc. Mdwh (talk) 22:27, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Is this law passed yet?

Can someone tell me if this is law yet? The article talks in terms of future tense, suggesting that the law hasn't been instigated yet and therefore 'extreme pornography' is not yet illegal in the UK. Can anyone confirm this? If so, has parliament announced WHEN the law will be passed, etc? Thanks J, April 15 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.159.49.155 (talk) 09:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

It is not yet law - it is currently being debated in the House of Lords. It looks like either the extreme porn clauses will go through as stated, unless there is support for two proposed amendments to either remove the clauses altogether, or to restrict them to images that are both illegal to publish under the Obscene Publications Act and are of actual sexual offences (see http://www.seenoevil.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=630 for the latest details).
The Government have stated that they want the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill (either with or without the extreme porn clauses) to be law by May 8, suggesting that there won't be the usual "ping-pong" of debates between the two houses, and so it seems this will be decided one way or another in the next couple of weeks. Mdwh (talk) 22:22, 16 April 2008 (UTC)