Talk:Ex-Nazi Party members

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Contents

[edit] Rename this article!

I suggest that this article be moved to a new one named "Ex-Nazi Party members", since most Nazis didn't cease to be convinced Nazis when their party was disbanded. See here below the section "Ex-Nazis?" JBarreto 15:46, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Merge Articles?

This article should be put together with List of famous Nazis influential after 1945

[edit] Postbellum

This paragraph is meaningless:

Upon termination of the war and the creation of Federal Germany, the districts that voted majority Nazi in 1932 voted the Social Democrat ticket in 1972. (1)
Comment: In the elections 1972, Social Democrats became strongest party in West-Germany, in most districts they gained the majority. Chancellor Willy Brandt, a persecutee of the Nazi regime, fetched the best results the for Social Democratic Party ever, even although the right treated him with hostility because of his absence from Germany during the Nazi and war time and because of his reconciliation policy with Poland.

How can someone talk of something happening in 1972 as being "upon the termination of the war"? And the whole paragraph on the 1972 elections is completely irrelevent. AndyL 22:07, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

You delete any material you don't like. Well I put it back in. Andy, who elected you as censor around here???WHEELER 20:31, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • Wheeler, what leads you to believe that you are above reasonable criticism? The comparison of election results under discussion here is, in my opinion, bogus, and it comes as little surprise that it originates from a self-described anti-democrat. --Maikel 11:11, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Members who resigned...

...would be lots of thousands, makes no sense to list them within an articel about "Ex-nazis"

I needed a place to put Hermann Rauschning as a category if you don't mind. Otherwise he would be lost in cyber space. There are people out there, who would be interested in this information.WHEELER 20:31, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Whether they resigned or not doesnt change the fact that at one point in time they were Nazi's, hence "Ex-Nazi" still applies to them.Xlegiofalco 23:25, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Can somebody provide reliable references for ODESSA? set up by Bormann and Himmler

Unless I get references, I will remove it, because I believe it is nonsense. Andries 00:14, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Dinko Sakic

Shouldnt Dinko Sakic be in this category?? He is currently serving 20 years for his crimes...He should even have his own article,since he is not a "Ex Nazi",he is current Nazi,since he is very proud of his nazism.

YXYX 03:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe Dinko Sakic rather belongs in Pursuit of Nazi collaborators. Thanks for your help anyhow! Tazmaniacs 00:25, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI

A question which would answer my original question (whether Pope Benedict XVI should be included in the list) is "does serving in any branch of the Nazi Armed Forces make one a Nazi?" There are many instances for people who were in the Wermacht or any branch because service was an obligation but that doesnt necessarily denote an approval or concurrence of Nazi doctrine and ideals. Even though the brand of an "Ex-Nazi" could be percieved as derogatory, understanding their circumstances and the manner they acted in are more important than a label. Many people on the current lists were generals and commanders, why would it be different for people who remained enlisted, like the current Pope and Georges Cziffra? Xlegiofalco 06:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


and Gunter Grass YXYX 14:31, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

This article is concerned about objective membership to Nazi organisations. Thus, yes, being a member of the Wehrmacht is included. It does not concern itself about the personal reasons and individual trajectories which each person later have, whether they proudly remained support of Nazism, or never made any self-criticism (Martin Heidegger being a famous one for this...), or dissimulated their membership (Gunter Grass above-mentioned) or rejected their membership (Benedict XVI and Gunter Grass). We can't read in people's minds, but we can, accordingly to Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:Verifiability, acknowledge if one was member or not of a Nazi organization. Tazmaniacs 19:36, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
This article is concerned with Nazis. That is a crappy term, not easily defined but the best thing is to go by membership in Nazi organisations, most importanly NSDAP, SS, SA. The Wehrmacht was no Nazi organisation. Str1977 (smile back) 18:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Germans who were called in to serve the military forces in some way are not automatically "nazis". They HAD to, or they would have been executed for desertion. One example is the religious paedophile Paul Schäfer. He was called in to the german armed forces to work as a nurse. Does that make him a "prominent nazi"? He fled to South America in the 50's, not for any "war crimes", but to avoid trials in Germany for child abuse. If he's a "nazi", all nurses in the U.S. would be prominent republicans!

[edit] Deletions concerning Hans Globke

Dear Str1977, you have deleted twice ([1], [2]) the passage on Hans Globke, claiming that to your "personal knowledge" he was "not a Nazi" but merely a "civil servant".

"Hans Globke (1898-1973), who worked with Adolf Eichmann in the Jewish Affairs Department drafting the Nuremberg laws, became director of the German Chancellery from 1953 to 1963 and then Konrad Adenauer's national security adviser (CIA Ties With Ex-Nazis Shown, The Washington Post, June 7, 2006 ; Why Israel's capture of Eichmann caused panic at the CIA, The Guardian, June 8, 2006)"
  • um, the first article doesn't mention Globke at all. Whiskey Pete 21:10, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

As you can read again, there are two sources, one from the Washington Post, the other from The Guardian, concerning Hans Globke. Please be careful in the future. Thanks. Fare well (despite our Wikipedian disagreements...) Tazmaniacs 06:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

  • I also agree that Globke is a notable exception - a high-ranking official the NS regime who was denied entry into the Party for obscure reasons. Still, I think it would be best to limit membership in this category to (adult) members of the NSDAP (or one of its 6 principal divisions, eg the NSDStB), except for clearly noted exceptions – of which Globke would be one, but Joseph Alois Ratzinger would not. Whiskey Pete 21:10, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


  1. 1892-? Otto Kulessa - ???
  2. 1893-? Zoltán Böszörmény - 1945???
  3. 1900-? Heinrich Müller - 1945???
  4. 1902-? Heinrich Matthes - ???
  5. 1904-? Willi Mentz - ???
  6. 1905-? Hermann Krumey - ???
  7. 1908-? August Wilhelm Miete - ???
  8. 1910-1978 Artur Breitwieser
  9. 1911-1994 Franz Lucas - zmarł w 1994
  10. 1920 Hildegard Martha Lächert

[[3]]

[edit] "Ex-Nazis"?

"Ex-Nazi" is a misleading concept. In my opinion, this expression should mean, as any other "ex", someone who ceased to be a Nazi and became something else (a conservative, a christian democrat, a politically indifferent person, whatever). You don't become someone's ex-husband if you are still her husband but lose your job, break a leg or have an affair with your neighbour. You will need to become a widower or to get a divorce if you want to be an "ex-husband".

At the end of WW II, most surviving Nazi politicians and officers didn't cease to be Hitler's creatures only because their chief was dead. After the defeat of Nazi Germany, they became Nazi prisoners, Nazi convicts, Nazi criminals on the run, Nazi fugitives, cripto-Nazis, whitewashed Nazis, co-opted Nazis, and so on, but true non-repentant Nazis as ever. They didn't stop to be Nazis because they began working for the CIA, the Russian nuclear program, the Syrian government or Pinochet's DINA. Only a few of them lost their beliefs and became ex-Nazis. JBarreto 16:04, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

You are not an "ex-communist" only because your Communist Party ceased to exist. If you still believe in communism you are still a communist. JBarreto 15:37, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
The definition of "ex-Nazi" given at the top of this Wikipedia article is ABSURD, firstly because it puts together in the same concept NSDAP party members who resigned or were expelled still under Nazism and those Nazis who were members at the end of the war. Secondly, after the NSDAP dissolved itself in 1945, there still were millions or at least hundreds of thousands of Nazis in Germany, though they lacked a party or a legal organization. JBarreto 16:34, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ex-Nazis who worked in post-war East Germany

I once remember reading Alexandra Ritchie quoting claims that about 1/4 of SED members in 1960 had NSDAP memberships, and the NVA and Stasi employed ex-SS and Gestapo members eg in this Deutsche Welle report: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1760980,00.html . The East German conenction angle is missing from the main article, and reinforced the Western Left and Soviet created illusion that only the CIA and West Germans protected Nazis for their usefulness after WWII. In fact, the secret records show the Eastern bloc was not entirely clean either. --JNZ (talk) 03:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I added about ex-Nazis working in the Eastern bloc. Now nefore anyone of you rush with screams such as "Western right-wing propaganda!" consider that these people are real and documented, and news like Stasi using former-SS people are duly reported by verified by Germany's public broadcaster ARD - hardly a bastion of right-wing thought. --JNZ (talk) 00:39, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Renamed

I renamed the article in a manner I feel is consistent with current and past discussion here and on WP:BLPN and also consistent with the lead sentence. --Justallofthem (talk) 23:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Schindler, Von Braun and Riefenstahl

Should Oskar Schindler, Leni Riefenstahl and Werner von Braun be included? What is the criterion?--Error (talk) 21:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)