User talk:Eusebeus

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Notice Deja Messages Ici Bitte. I will generally respond to any comments, queries, calumnies or complaints here.
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[edit] Dirty Dancing

I'm going to try and take Dirty Dancing to FA again... Since you were one of the principal opposers, I thought I'd check with you, what do you think? --Elonka 13:53, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

  • I'd be happy to take another look when you have it nom'd at FA. Eusebeus (talk) 14:57, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
    • It's currently at peer review, if you'd like to comment there. --Elonka 15:04, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Scrubs

Is it your intention to piss people off, because you're certainly good at it. My restoration did not contain "gussied up trivia", I'm pretty sure that details of it being a homage to something else, its director, it being the last episode, various production details, plus the directors views on the episode could be called, erm, oh yes, "real-world focus", at least by most people, perhaps not your interpretation, and evidence so far suggests that this episode will be plenty notable. I'm trying to go by the book here, I'm trying to make improvements, and if you actually bothered to contribute to the discussion about the episode articles, which by the way is showing a likelihood of more reverts, you'll see that I'm trying to prevent this, and advocating more article expansion. Its hard to feel motivated when you seem to delight in acting like a dick, Can you not consider the fact that you're not the only one trying to do what they feel is best for the project?--Jac16888 (talk) 03:23, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

oh and i feel that i should mention that should i restore the article, your reverting will be the 3rd revert, not mine, and also, this was a new episode, created after your redirects, there was no discussion on it. You want it gone, afd it--Jac16888 (talk) 03:26, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
You are right and I am wrong: as the series finale, it will likely be notable enough to warrant an individual article and I apologise for turning it into a redirect. Please ensure that the primary focus of the article is its real-world significance and bear in mind it is important not to dress up trivia. There are lots of vandals who restore willy nilly and I did not pay close enough attention to this case. Sorry. Eusebeus (talk) 13:46, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
accepted and forgotten. Thank you--Jac16888 (talk) 13:51, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
On a similar point, I plan on completing the WP:FICT-failing-synoptic+trivia Scrubs articles redirection soon. If you plan on rescuing any of these specific articles, please let me know. Eusebeus (talk) 16:01, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I do intend to try and rescue a few, not for a few weeks though, exam period is upon us--Jac16888 (talk) 16:11, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok, well listen I know we have had our differences (you reported me to arbcom after all); the bottom line here, however, is that we are both striving for the same thing: better content that satisfies general encyclopedic exigencies. I appreciate your efforts to improve articles & not just blindly restoring content that violates our guidelines governing fiction and I appreciate that you accept my apology for having misapplied redirection. I look forward to improving our engagement in the future and I hope that we can work together on finding the right balance between redirecting content that is mere fan material and restoring articles that aspire to something more. Eusebeus (talk) 17:34, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I do hope that the two of us can work together. I still believe that all the episodes should have articles, you're not going to convince me otherwise, but its hard to keep going over the same debates, and i also no that i will never convince you they could stay as they are. But thats irrelevant, if the two of us can find a common ground and move forward from there, perhaps it will encourage others in "the big debate" to try a bit of working together, which is the best we can hope for. I do apologise for the whole arbcom thing, i could have handled that whole situation much better, lets call it a bad episode and redirect it to the past. As a quick heads up, when i'm free, the articles i'm thinking of trying to salvage are My Life in Four Cameras, because its unusual, and won an award, some s1 episode, i forget which one, which apparently caused some controversy by offending some nurses, and some of the ones with major guest stars, e.g. Brendan Fraser and Michael J Fox's episodes (3 and 2 respectively) because they were particulary notable episodes.--Jac16888 (talk) 00:42, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I am so sorry for that terrible redirection joke, don't know what i was thinking. I should get an indefinite block for that--Jac16888 (talk) 00:44, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Nonsense - that made me laugh! I am glad the olive branch has been extended here. When you have the time, why don't you consult here on the specific episodes you would like to improve and I'd be happy to help; the basis for improvement in those you cite above sounds very solid to me. I know it seems I am against all fictional topics, but sometimes I make a contribution! Eusebeus (talk) 01:32, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Jac, thanks for your post at the AE board. It's depressing isn't it that in instances where editors actually find a way to work together that the specific instance actually gets cited as edit-warring and a block is solicited? Let me know when you are free from exam burdens and we can chart a path to get the notable Scrubs episodes resuscitated with appropriate content (4 cameras episode is probably a good place to start). I will invite A. S. Castanza to join this effort, per his message below. Cheers, Eusebeus (talk) 18:56, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


Rather than replacing the articles on Scrubs episodes with redirects please post a message on my talk page and I will attempt to bring them up to standards, considering that | Television Episode Criteria gives specific requirements for a TV show episode page it shouldn't be too hard. Or rather, It might be possible to combine each season into its own article with separate pages only for episodes with considerable real world significance. Let me know what you think. ~ A. S. Castanza 03:54, 7 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by A. S. Castanza (talk • contribs)

[edit] Careful with the "V" word

Believe me, I understand the temptation, but nothing will come of it but trouble.Kww (talk) 12:55, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re:RFArb/Footnotes

Thanks. It's like Groundhog Day around those guys. Until I found your/his RFC I was beating myself up for being a pansy, but I don't feel quite as bad anymore. It's my first ArbCom statement - I hope it was acceptable to link to the RFC instead of repeating your hard work. I hope even more that ArbCom puts some meat into their decision, but based on current trends in their "decisions" (and I use the word loosely) I'm not optimistic. We'll see. :-) - KrakatoaKatie 08:45, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

Incase you're wondering, I'm taking a wikibreak for about a month and I'll be back soon. By the way, before I leave, I just wanna tell you that the Darkstalkers, Tekken, and Guilty Gear character pages might need a little work, don't you agree? ZeroGiga (talk) 05:13, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Prose-master

this is some pretty good work. You should be reviewing articles in the sunshine at FAC more often rather than wallowing in the trenches at AfD..this is great work! Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:07, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Personal attacks

Regarding your comments on Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2008 May 6: Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. It would have been quote possible to critique Alansohn's nomination without adding hyperbole of your own, and DGG was quite right to ask you politely to refactor. Your "braying schoolmarm" reply was completely uncalled for in response to DGG's polite request. Thank you. BrownHairedGirl 04:24, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Yay! Brown haired girl posted to my talk page and even templated me! Anyway, I disagree that my comment is a personal attack; perhaps my observation that the nominator was so moved by his rhetoric can be construed in this way, but I am unconvinced. But there is indeed a braying schoolmarmish quality to DGG's reply: he knows full well the long history of unrepentant nastiness and invective that Alan brings to disputes, and how easily he plunges headlong into contumely and caricature (note the Witchhunt comment). This behaviour is simply intolerable and I am disappointed that, in the face of a gross and insulting caricature of the closing admin which imputes his good faith and judgement, you & DGG both come whining to me. Shame on you! Eusebeus (talk) 13:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "en vif"?

You recently used the phrase en vif in a discussion at WT:NOT. Thinking that I might learn a new phrase, I tried to look it up. I could not find anything at Wiktionary (where I thought we had pretty good coverage of such phrases) or even through a google search of online dictionaries. What does that mean? And can you create the page at Wiktionary please? Rossami (talk) 17:46, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Thanks for the heads up - I googled en vif and found no English usage - so I should not have included it in my comment. Apologies. It means live or, figuratively, in the act in French. Eusebeus (talk) 20:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] AE thread regarding TV episode articles

A thread has been started at WP:AE regarding your edits to TV episode articles. Thank you. --Pixelface (talk) 05:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

You are strongly encouraged to be more civil. See the case's closing. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:09, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removing content without talking about it ...

As I have said in the past to user:Opus33, your neutrality towards my comments is generally under question. You can not hide the fact that very high value coins have been minted using very important representations like people, castles, etc. If you want to remove the content because you do not like it, then you should comment that in the talk page first.

If you continue reverting my edits on purpose, I will escalate your behaviour to a Wikipedia neutral administrator and your account may be blocked. Way more important articles than the ones your review have been happily accepting my comments, you should take that as a sample! Miguel.mateo (talk) 14:37, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Oye Miguel, listen up - you added content to a stable article. Opus and I have reverted your changes. So your next step is to go to the talk page and discuss the material you want to add in. (Go read Wikipedia Editing Process if you are confused about this). You now need to go to the talk page and make your case for why this content should be included, not come to my talk page with misplaced adolescent threats. *snap* Eusebeus (talk) 14:44, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Is not a thread, is the reality. Please check Hadyn, we had a long discussion about the inclussion of the coin, and it was decided to let it there. Then Opus33 deleted similar content, in a building article, nothing related to music! He knows the process and he could start the conversation in the talk page. You want the conversation, fine I will start it, but I am definitely escalating his behaviour.
The content that I am adding is real, sourced and well accepted by a lot of other articles. The fact that you and Opus are taking "your articles" so personal is not correct. What is wrong showing that there is a unique commemorative coin in honour to this building in this case? Miguel.mateo (talk) 14:57, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Thanks for being reasonable. Let's move all discussion of this to the talk page. Cheers,

Eusebeus (talk) 14:59, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello, Eusebeus. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Yours, --Miguel.mateo (talk) 15:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Eusebeus, it will really mean a lot to me if you can give your honest comment on Talk:Schloss Esterházy, even if it is "I do not like and I rather the whole mention of the coin and the image to be removed". Thanks in advance. Miguel.mateo (talk) 13:27, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] European Robin

Guten abend mein herr (now where do the umlauts go again?),

the translator on google makes for some highly amusing reading of: the German article of the European Robin, which otherwise has some fine referenced scientific material to add to the anglophone article. The third paragraph of Eiablage und Brutpflege, with the bit about the cuckoos (and the ref) would be fantastic. There is some other good material on timing of bird development but I couldn't figure out which ref went with it. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:18, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Can you give me a more precise request with respect to the references you want translated over (i.e. the ref numbers?). Then I can give it a try. My ornithological German ... well, we'll see ... ;) Eusebeus (talk) 15:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Para 3 of Eiablage und Brutpflege, with refs 15 and 13. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
PS I have an interesting idea for a collaboration cleanup on an environmental topic. Let me know if you are interested. Eusebeus (talk) 15:58, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes. sure. I have been hamstrung by some access issues (feeling very antipathetic to my modem or adsl, not sure which is responsible....lots of phone calls and frustration) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
this is the article and, if true, how fucked are we all? No good straight up web sources - an obvious lacuna for WP to fill as an FA. Eusebeus (talk) 03:48, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Indeed, that is a depressing read. I have generally avoided writing too much on general environment stuff and extinctions as I find it too depressing, but this sounds like something out of science fiction and is worth investigating.Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:37, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
I've asked Jack Merridew, who has some strong environmental views, to hunte around for some images, which the article needs. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:07, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A composer(?) named Thompson

Hi. I am currently working on Pride and Prejudice (1995 TV serial) (yeah, I know, poor taste), and I want to decruftify its music section for lack of good sources. It currently mentions a fellow named Thompson several times, but I don't remember his name from music class, and I also can't find him at Thompson; google isn't really helpful either since it's such a common surname. Now, I don't know whether I am stupid and incompetent, or whether he is just utterly non-notable (in which case I'd have no second thoughts about removing any mention of him instantly). Since you seem to have a thing for classical music, can you help out? If it takes you more than five minutes to come up with a reply, please don't bother. :-) – sgeureka t•c 08:43, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Mein hochgeehrtes Fräulein: I doubt music classes would have helped on this one. The music is English folk dancing melodies (as noted in the article text). I think the reference to Thompson is to this compendium: Dances as they are performed at Court, Bath, and all Publick Assemblys. (ca. 1795 seq.) From teh internets: "Thompsons of St. Paul's Churchyard published a collection of twenty-four dances each year." There's lots of web references (youtube the various Thompson titles and you'll probably find most of them). Also scholarly refs such as this one: The Morris Tune, John M. Ward, "Journal of the American Musicological Society," Vol. 39, No. 2 (Summer, 1986), pp. 294-331. Is that ok? Let me know if you need help about any of the other cited music. Tschuss, Eusebeus (talk) 15:43, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

(Hinweis: Lies mal meine deutsche Sprachbox auf meiner Userpage genau durch. ;-) Aber psst, ich will es nicht an die große Glocke hängen.)
So I guess the man is notable after all, but not in the way I expected. A Making-of book that I have ordered (but not yet received) may be helpful here after all, but if they make no significant mention of Thompson, I'll trim/remove the list as WP:NOT#IINFO anyway.
On another matter, Tony1 has supported my Carnivàle LoC with only minor reservations, which is like an A+ in an FAC. I'll fix his points tomorrow morning (too tired now), but since you're pretty eloquent (and a native speaker at that), could you run through the article and mark (or even fix) the spots that may deserve some more attention? Don't feel yourself obligated to anything though. I still haven't responded to your winking, but I haven't forgotten about it either. – sgeureka t•c 19:36, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Blush. Nächste mal, muss Ich etwas besseres durchlesen! I have made the due correction. I saw Tony's comments and you deserve congratulations for having earned what is high praise indeed. I would be happy to comb through the prose when I have time. Eusebeus (talk) 21:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
CoC got promoted yesterday; I have only fixed Tony1's concerns but I'll read through his how-to-satisfy-criterion-1a page again soon to find some more improvable sentences myself. You are still welcome to have a closer look at the article, but it's not "urgent" anymore. :-) Anyway, I'll be busy with family and education in the next one or two weeks and won't be as wiki-involved, although I'll still read up on the important developments. Have a nice sunday. – sgeureka t•c 11:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Scrubs

I can add a comment to the effect that you stopped reverting the moment someone added anything meaningful to the article, or I can stay silent. It's your decision whether a comment from me at this point is helpful or harmful. Kww (talk) 12:16, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Hey K, I'll email you. Eusebeus (talk) 12:30, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] JzG RFAR merged with Cla68-FM-SV case

Per the arb vote here the RFAR on User:JzG is now merged with this case and he is a named party. Also see my case disposition notes there. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Comment

Is this really necessary? There's nothing to be gained by antagonizing people. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 18:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Pumpkin has already established a long list of my transgressions which he keeps, (either on- or off-wiki, I am unsure) and trots out to demonstrate my bad faith at every instance that he can - including, as one example, forgetting to sign my posts. That is curious, no? Bah- let others be polite; I weary of his antics. Your question: faced with the larger disruption of such querulousness, insistence and obstreperous response, is it necessary? No (what is?). Is it warranted? Yes (in my view). I regret that other editors do not show or express similar misapprehension, if perhaps couched in somewhat more felicitous tones. But then, as far as choice of language, de gustibus non disputandem est (naturally). Eusebeus (talk) 18:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

And antagonizing your antagonists accomplishes what? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 18:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

  • It's just good for the Gestalt of the place. Eusebeus (talk) 19:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

No, it isn't, and knock it off. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't link me to civility like I am some kind of fumbling rube. In my years here I have seen bad behavior from faces you are well-familiar with (MD, BdJ, etc); this kind of gaming the system through a reliance on other editors CV is unacceptable. Going after me is unhelpful; frankly, I am surprised you disagree. Anyway, you've called me out on it - leave it at that. So, no more messages. Eusebeus (talk) 20:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: WQA comment

(Original Comment, reposted here)

I commented below you at WQA and saw your comment, viz: the discussion itself is inherently tedious and I don't see how that can be avoided. Such is the nature of (or IMO, failure of) the consensus-based decision-making process when you have far too many participants. :/ (which, again, is why I refuse to participate in policy discussions on Wikipedia anymore under any circumstances) Amen to that brother, but I wonder if this doesn't rather compromise your opinion in such matters - if you cannot even bring yourself to participate in such discussions, does that not qualify any comments you make regarding those who do? Perhaps not, but I would add this: you seem to be saying, all policy discussions are tedious and in that context, some users are more tedious than others. I don't disagree, but I do wonder if a rather more aggressive approach wouldn't be useful insofar as it would discourage the accretion of tedium in an already tedious demesne. It seems needlessly supine to say merely: Oh well, this is what such discussions tend to produce. Anyway, just a thought. Eusebeus (talk) 14:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

A very fair point, and in fact I mentioned yesterday (in bold face type no less!) that somebody else besides me really ought to take a look, but surprise-surprise there are not a lot of volunteers ;D

I really don't think Pixelface is violating Wikiquette per se -- I think the disruption cause by his edits is a natural manifestation of the attempt to use a consensus-based decision-making process with 20+ active participants. (Note that Wikipedia's consensus process works well for most articles, because usually only three to five editors, and at most a dozen, will be active on a given article at any given time. It's on sweeping policy issues that I believe the process is hopelessly dysfunctional) With so many participants, and so many of them coming and going, his tedious habit of repeating his argument over and over actually has some merit -- newcomers will not have read the entire discussion, and so may have missed his earlier point. Pixelface isn't helping, but at the same time, it's not his fault that discussion is an abject failure, and even if Pixelface were banned altogether from editing, can you really say it would elevate the level of dialog at WT:FICT?

Anyway, I'll gladly bow out of responding to the Wikiquette alert if you want, which may attract other editors to intervene. Just let me know :) But as per above, I am beginning to be of the opinion that the nature of the problem is beyond the scope of WP:WQA altogether. --Jaysweet (talk) 14:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you should bow out - no; I am impressed you care at all. The problems raised by Masem, however, go well beyond the scope of WQA and should properly be the subject of an RfC. The specific issues at WP:FICT are currently insuperable, but disruptive or pointy editing practices in one forum implicate other editorial tendencies in other areas (e.g. the symphony pages, or Pixel's epic fit over spoiler tags). I personally don't give a damn about Pixel's occasional tantrums, but I do think it important that one not emasculate one's position with needless disclaimers over the dysfunction of the consensus process.

Have you seen the Tennis renaming debate - that is honestly one of the worst angels on the head of a pin I have ever witnessed. While I generally agree with you about the process, I think the answer is that participants who become destructive to the flow of discussion (Pixel, Redux) be encouraged by neutral, 3rd parties (e.g. you), to foreswear further participation. To be clear: I include myself in this unhelpful process and have had to recognise that my own practices have been sorely wanting in effectiveness in moving the debate forward. I used to engage in the FICT debate much more closely than I do now and I stopped in large measure because my contributions were adding little and indeed counterproductive to the support of my views. Users like Sgeureka are far more effective than I in making the case - so I largely leave the field to them. Fractious editors like Pixel would be well-advised to do the same. But that is mere distraction - the larger point here is I think we need be rather more active in working to rectify what you rightly identify as a dysfunctional process. Urging more responsible contributions to debate would be a good first step and you could have made that point more forcefully at WQA, even if the larger issue of pointy and disruptive editing is more appropriate for RfC. That's all I was trying to get at. Eusebeus (talk) 15:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Excellent points all around. In regards to the Tennis renaming debacle, I have been subtly suggesting that the editors simply give up trying to achieve consensus, heh, given that previous community attempt at coming to a consensus on diacritics in article names have all resulted in a resounding failure. But that is probably not a productive attitude, you are probably right.
You have a fair request: to make the point more forcefully that Pixelface's contributions are not helpful, not to the community at large, nor to his position. I don't want to disrupt the current attempts at compromise, but I will see what I can do to reinforce that message.
As far as fixing the process on a community level, I am not optimistic, because any remedy to the dysfunctional process would need to be vetted by the exact same dysfunctional process! :D My thoughts are that for policy issues, a small number of editors (5-9) representing all major viewpoints should be designated by the community, and then the discussion takes place (publicly, of course) between those editors, and the consensus only has to be achieved among the small group. This will never fly (it smacks of elitism, which goes against the unrealistically egalitarian ideals of Wikipedia) but that would be my proposal.
Maybe if I get bored some day I'll write an essay about it, but I'm not optimistic about it going anywhere. --Jaysweet (talk) 15:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)