Template talk:European Parliament election, 2004 - Statistics

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Contents 1 Greece 1.1 Eniskhimeni Analogiki 1.2 Not "Eniskhimeni Analogiki" 1.3 Pro-rata 1.4 Article 6 of the Law 1180/1981

[edit] Greece

[edit] Eniskhimeni Analogiki

copied from [1]

Dear WikiProject Greece. I'm trying to complete Template:European Parliament election, 2004 - Statistics and need to find out the method Greece used for seat allocation in the 2004 European Parliament elections. The European Parliament factsheets [2][3] say that the seat allocation method is "Eniskhimeni Analogiki". This is neither confirmed nor contradicted explicitly by the European Parliament 2004 website [4]. A Google search for the term throws up <10 hits [5] which isn't much use. I think (I might be wrong) that the term might be a transliteration into the Roman alphabet from the Greek, either directly into English or possibly via French. An inspection of the relevant Ministry of Interior website (Greek:[6], French: [7], English [8]) doesn't use the term, although I cannot read Greek and therefore cannot say definitively. If anybody on this project can inform me what the English term (ideally as per Voting_system) for the method that Greece uses for seat allocation, then I would be very grateful. Thank you for your time, regards Anameofmyveryown (talk) 19:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

"Eniskhimeni Analogiki" or "Ενισχυμένη Αναλογική" means "Enhanced Proportional" or, to use a term from Voting system, "Semi-proportional". Hope this helps. --Kimon^talk 13:21, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

NO! NO! NO! Attention! "Eniskhimeni Analogiki" IS NOT USED in the elections for the European Parliament! It is used for the elections of the National Parliament (Vouli). I do not know what europa.eu says but it is wrong. "Eniskhimeni Analogiki" is used for the national elections. The system for the European elections is completely proportional (with no extra seats for the first party) with a threshold of 3%. That is what the Greek Ministry of Internal Affairs says. It is in Greek but Kimon can confirm it.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:13, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Yiannis is absolutely correct but, so is my translation of the term ;)

For reference, here is the English language link --Kimon^talk 14:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

"Purely proportional" not "semi-proportional". Yes, as far as the "Eniskhimeni Analogiki" used only in national elections the translation ia accurate.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the above: I appreciate the effort it took. I've copied this discussion to Template talk:European Parliament election, 2004 - Statistics for future reference. Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 21:21, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not "Eniskhimeni Analogiki"

I don't know what the EU site says, but it is terribly wrong, if it says that Greece uses "Eniskhimeni Analogiki" for the European elections. Eniskhimeni Analogiki is a semi-proportional system favoring the first party, and used in many different versions in Greece after 1974 for the national elections. At this moment, 260 seats of the Greek Parliament are divided proportionally among the parties, and there is a bonus of 40 seats for the first party, and a threshold of 3%. The current government wants to make this bonus 50 seats.

But in the European elections the electoral system is completely proportional with a threshold of 3 %. According to the site of the Ministry of Interior Affairs, it is "purely proportional". The lists are prepared by the parties and the citizen votes only for parties (so it is a Party-list proportional representation). But I'm afraid I do not know the exact method followed (Sainte-Laguë? d'Hondt?). What I know for sure is that it is not "Eniskhimeni Analogiki", and I'm wondering who and how entered this inaccurate information in the EU site.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:43, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pro-rata

Thank you for the above: I appreciate the time it took to answer the question. Unfortunately, this raises more questions than it answers...<grin>. The points are as follows:

1) Terminology.

• "Party-list proportional representation" is a way of voting: candidates are arranged into lists, and it covers the events up to the end of election day (selection of candidates, ballot paper design, etc)
• "Threshold" cover events at the end of election day but before seat allocation. Lists that do not pass a threshold get discarded.
• "Seat allocation" covers events after the end of election day and the threshold. Given the number of votes for each list, how many seats does a list get? It's not a simple calculation, since fractions of a MEP can't be sent to the Parliament.

2) European Parliament factsheets.

• EP factsheets should be definitive, but they're not - according to the factsheets[9], Finland parties may present their lists at either constituency or national level, but according to the election website, [10], Finland is a single national constituency. Your statement that the factsheets are inaccurate in Greece's case may well be entirely true. If I may speculate, it does feel like that particular factsheet is a cut-and-paste from the 2004 and 1999 versions. However, wikipedia rules discount speculation as per WP:OR

So what to do? We have the Greece Ministry of the Interior source [11] that says Greece "...allocates European Parliamentary seats between all party lists and coalitions participating in the election pro rata with their election results across the State..." So I'll update the site to say Greece uses a pro-rata method of seat allocation and (hopefully) everybody will be happy.

Incidentally, if anybody can come up with a more definitive answer, I would be grateful. The laws governing Greece EP elections in 2004 are Law 1180 (1981?) on election of representatives to the European Parliament, and Law 3216 (2003?) on ratification of the Council Decision amending the election of Members of the European Parliament.

Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 21:32, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article 6 of the Law 1180/1981

I'll try to provide an outline of the provisions of the above article (not accurate translation because it is long):

• The distribution of the seats takes place in all the country (single national constituency) according to the parties' power. To this end, the valid ballots of all the parties participating in the single national constituency are summed up, and this sum divides by the total number of the seats of Greece in the European Parliament (first phase or first distribution).
• The quotient of the division, omitting the fraction, constitutes the electoral yardstick (I am not sure about the translation of the term "εκλογικό μέτρο"!), which divides the total electoral power of each party (in the single national constituency), namely all its valid ballots; each party takes as many seats as the times its electoral power contains the electoral yardstick.
• Then we have the second distribution: The remains after the first distribution (and not used during this first distribution) of the electoral power of the parties are summed up; their sum divides by the number of the undistributed seats after the first distribution, increased by 1. Then we have a new electoral yardstick, and each party takes as many seats as the times its unused electoral power contains the above electoral yardstick.
• Seats that remain undistributed after the second distribution are distributed (until there are no seats left) among the parties which have (after the first phase) the biggest remaining unused electoral power.

I know that my translation is full of flaws, but I do not know the exact English terminology. I did my best and I hope it helps. I omitted some details of the law, but I can check it again if it is necessary.--Yannismarou (talk) 12:42, 22 January 2008 (UTC)