Talk:European Route of Brick Gothic

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	This page is affected by the Gdańsk (Danzig) Vote. The following rules apply in the case of disputes:
For Gdańsk, use the name Danzig between 1308 and 1945 For Gdańsk, use the name Gdańsk before 1308 and after 1945 In biographies of clearly German persons, the name should be used in the form Danzig (Gdańsk) and later Danzig exclusively In biographies of clearly Polish persons, the name should be used in the form Gdańsk (Danzig) and later Gdańsk exclusively. For Gdansk and other locations that share a history between Germany and Poland, the first reference of one name in an article should also include a reference to other names, e.g. Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland) or Gdańsk (Danzig). An English language reference that primarily uses this name should be provided on the talk page if a dispute arises. Reverts to conform with community consensus are excluded from the 3RR rule. Only the place names can be reverted exempt from the 3RR rule according to the outcome of this vote, additional changes fall again under the 3RR rule. Please use descriptive edit summaries. Persistent reverts against community consensus despite multiple warnings may be dealt with according to the rules in Wikipedia:Dealing with vandalism. In case of doubt, assume good faith and do not bite newcomers. The detailed vote results and the vote itself can be found on Talk:Gdansk/Vote. This vote has ended; please do not vote anymore. Comments and discussions can be added to Talk:Gdansk/Vote/discussion anytime. This template {{Template:Gdansk-Vote-Notice}} can be added on the talk page of affected articles if necessary.

[edit] Names

Matthead, you argue for inclusion of German names with Brick Gothic houses built in German cities. But Masovian Blessed Virgin Mary Cathedral in Płock was built 50 years before Teutonic Order first arrived in Prussia region. Many other buildings were built by Poland-dominated Dukes of Pomerania... We should follow WP:NCGN: use German names for cities now in Germany and Polish for those now in Poland.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  17:48, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Piotrus, have you read Masovian Blessed Virgin Mary Cathedral? The original Romanesque building of the 1130s has burned down, and Italian architects are credited for building a new one. You may remove the German name of Plock from the list I've taken from the website as this city was only short time in Prussia/Germany, but the long German history of cities like Allenstein, Stettin, Danzig etc. is not subject to negotiation. Besides, your revert [1] to the last version by Molobo indicates that you did not spot the obvious need for copy editing. Try harder next time. -- Matthead ^discuß!     O       07:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I am afraid WP:CONSENSUS disagrees with your claim that your POV is not subject to negotiations. This is a European Route, and it passes through various countries; names as used in those countries (per WP:NCGN) should be used, not names when some parts of those cities were built. The article states Many of the cities have also a history as Hanseatic League city, and some are related to German Ostsiedlung or the Teutonic Order - this is enough to give the reader the sense that German culture and architecture has significantly contributed to the monuments on that route.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  10:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Piotrus, how many WP do you want to link? The article shows and links the towns according to WP:NCGN. The problem you have is that the EuRoB website lists the German names on its English version (and on the German, of course). I doubt this is done against the wishes of the Polish cities involved. Besides, a famous vote states "For Gdansk and other locations that share a history between Germany and Poland, the first reference of one name in an article should also include a reference to other names, e.g. Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland) or Gdańsk (Danzig)". So I leave it up to you to investigate which member cities share a history between Germany and Poland, and fix the article accordingly to Wikipedia policy which it currently violates due to the deletions by you and Molobo.-- Matthead ^discuß!     O       07:56, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

A cursory glance at [2] shows a nice interactable map at the top. However, for cities in modern Poland, it uses Polish names, not German (ex. Gdańsk). PS. Since you invoke the ugly template above, let me point out the the ERoG concerns the modern (2007...) period - it is not a historical 14th century route or such.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  11:04, 31 July 2007 (UTC)