Talk:European Parliament election, 2009

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[edit] 13th of June 2009 is a saturday !

After verifications, the date 13-06-2009 falls on a saturday ; this means that at least half of the member states will exceptionally change their usual day of voting ? What will happen ? 82.240.207.81 (talk) 17:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC).

Last time, Holland and Britain voted on Thursday, CZ and Eire on Friday and all the others on Sat or Sunday, so probably again, especially since there is a strong chance that the General Election in the UK will be at the same time 139.184.30.16 10:48, 19 June 2007 (UTC)Joevsimp 10:48, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe that the countries will change their voting systems. This must be an error in the date.
In fact, even the french wikipedia-site writes: Comme c'est la loi en France, et dans la plupart des pays européens, l'élection se déroulera le dimanche. (Like it is the law in France and most of the European countries, elections will be held on Sunday) (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lections_europ%C3%A9ennes_de_2009_en_France)
I am also unable to find any information on the sites of the European Parliament or elsewhere to proof these dates. [no username] 18-07-2007

[edit] Number Of Seats

As the table in this article and, amongst others, the individual 2009 election article for the United Kingdom shows a different number of MEPs to be elected in 2009, can someone please clarify how many MEPs are going to be elected? I am usually up on this sort of thing but there appears to be some difference of information here... doktorb wordsdeeds 18:05, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Clarified the text, that better?- J Logan t: 18:29, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Election date

From the Federal Elections

Here is an approximative translation into English (i am not fluent in German, i've used the dictionary some 50 times ;-)):

The election date for the 2009 European election.

The election time spans, in principle, for every member state, in the same period from Thursday to Sunday, to ensure that the different electoral traditions of the member states can be maintained. In most of the member states, it will be, like in Germany (§ 4 European electoral law i. V. m. [don't know]) on a Sunday


Der Wahltermin für die Europawahl 2009

Die Zeitspanne erstreckt sich grundsätzlich in einem für alle Mitgliedstaaten gleichen Zeitraum von Donnerstag bis Sonntag, um zu gewährleisten, dass die verschiedenen Wahltraditionen in den Mitgliedstaaten beibehalten werden können. In den meisten Mitgliedstaaten wird wie in Deutschland (§ 4 Europawahlgesetz i. V. m. § 16 Satz 2 Bundeswahlgesetz) an einem Sonntag oder gesetzlichen Feiertag gewählt, in Großbritannien und den Niederlanden werden die Wahllokale aber zum Beispiel donnerstags geöffnet.

Bild zeigt ein Kalenderblatt vom Juni 2009 Der Wahlzeitraum soll in einem der ersten Europawahl von 1979 entsprechenden Zeitraum im letzten Jahr der Wahlperiode liegen. Der Zeitraum der ersten Europawahl lag zwischen dem 7. und 10. Juni 1979. Ein Blick auf den Kalender des Monats Juni 2009 führt zu dem Ergebnis, dass für den Wahlzeitraum von Donnerstag bis Sonntag nur die Zeit zwischen dem 4. und 7. Juni in Frage käme, damit zumindest einer der Wahltage in den Mitgliedstaaten innerhalb des oben genannten Zeitraums liegt. Entsprechend wäre der Termin für die Europawahl in der Bundesrepublik Sonntag, der 7. Juni 2009.

Bild zeigt die bisherigen Wahltermine der EuropawahlenSofern es sich jedoch als unmöglich erweisen sollte, die Wahlen während dieses Zeitraums abzuhalten, ist es nach Anhörung des Europäischen Parlaments mög-lich, den Wahlzeitraum durch einen einstimmigen Beschluss des Rates zu ver-legen. Ein solcher Beschluss soll mindestens ein Jahr vor Ablauf der Wahlperiode gefasst werden, dies würde für die nächste anstehende Europawahl Mitte 2008 be-deuten. Ein neuer Wahlzeitraum darf höchstens zwei Monate vor und einen Monat nach dem ursprünglichen Termin liegen. Bisher gab es lediglich zwei solcher Beschlüsse, nämlich einen für die zweite und einen für die dritte Europawahl, durch die der Wahlzeitraum jeweils um eine Woche nach hinten verlegt wurde.

Von dem konkreten Wahltermin unabhängig dürfen die Wahlen der Vertreter für die Vertreterversammlungen nicht früher als 12 Monate, die Wahlen der Bewerber selbst nicht früher als neun Monate vor Beginn des Jahres durchgeführt werden, in dem die Wahl des Europäischen Parlamentes ansteht (§ 10 Abs. 3 Satz 4 Europawahlgesetz). Bezogen auf die kommende Europawahl kann also frühestens ab dem 1. Januar 2008 mit den innerparteilichen Wahlen der Vertreter für die Vertreterversammlungen und ab 1. April 2008 mit den Wahlen der Bewerber begonnen werden.

Die Listen für ein Bundesland sind beim jeweiligen Landeswahlleiter spätestens am 66. Tage, gemeinsame Listen für alle Länder sind dem Bundeswahlleiter spätestens am 68. Tage vor der Wahl bis 18 Uhr schriftlich einzureichen (§ 11 Abs. 1 Europawahlgesetz). Wann dies genau der Fall ist, steht somit erst dann fest, wenn letztendlich der Wahltermin festgelegt worden ist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.240.207.81 (talk) 18:14, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

That may well be -- however, the Luxembourgian elections (which are held at the same time as the European ones, *always*) and the Bulgarian ones (explicitly stated in the news report to be held at the same time) are on 14 June 2009, so that should be strong evidence in favour of that weekend, instead. —Nightstallion 20:23, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Translating the above into English gives us:

The election date for the 2009 European elections
The period covers in principle all Member States for a similar period from Thursday to Sunday to ensure that the various electoral traditions in the Member States can be maintained. In most Member States as in Germany (Section 4 Europe electoral law in conjunction with Article 16 clause 2 federal election law) on a Sunday or public holiday elected in Britain and the Netherlands, but the polling stations opened Thursday, for example.
Picture shows a calendar page of the June 2009 election period will be one of the first European elections of 1979 corresponding period last year the legislature. The period of the first European elections was between 7 and 10 June 1979. A glance at the calendar for the month of June 2009 leads to the conclusion that the election period from Thursday to Sunday only the time between 4 and 7 June in question would be, so that at least one of the election days in the Member States within the above-mentioned period. According would be the deadline for the European elections in Germany Sunday, the 7th June 2009.
Picture shows the previous election dates, the elections en If it is impossible, however, as should the elections during this period would be, it is after consulting the European Parliament possible, the election period by a unanimous decision by the Council to understand. Such a decision should be at least one year before the expiry of the term focus, it would be forthcoming for the next European elections in mid-2008-show. A new election period should not exceed two months before and one month after the original date. So far there were only two such decisions, namely one for the second and the third one for European elections by the election period, each one week moved to the rear.
From the specific election date, the independent election of representatives to the representative assemblies not earlier than 12 months, the election of the candidate himself is not earlier than nine months before the start of the year, in which the election of the European Parliament is due (Section 10 para 3 Europe sentence 4 election law). Based on the forthcoming European elections may be earlier than 1 January 2008 with the internal elections of representatives to the meetings and representatives from 1 April 2008 with the election of candidates started.
The lists for a federal state in the country are Returning Officer no later than the 66th Days, joint lists for all countries are the Federal Returning Officer no later than the 68th Days before the election to 18 clock writing (Section 11 para 1 Europe electoral law). When this is precisely the case, is therefore only then, if ultimately the election date has been established.

Hope that helps, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 16:40, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Future tag

I removed the {{future election}} tag from the top of the article. I believe it is superfluous, since the very first sentence of the article clearly indicates that this is an upcoming event. The event is well-documented, and the article has plenty of sources. The event will most certainly occur, and there is really no need to have a disclaimer at a premium position in the article. --Kildor (talk) 21:21, 28 May 2008 (UTC) (timestamp corrected)

We have this tag on all future elections articles, so I see no need to remove it from here. BTW, your date seems to be off. —Nightstallion 12:49, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, obviously not: European Parliament election, 2009 (Sweden). But even if it was, it is really no argument to why it should be used. Many articles on "future" subjects do not have a future tag, as UEFA Euro 2008, Eurovision Song Contest 2009 and the year 2010. There is no need for such tag in this article either. --Kildor (talk) 21:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I dont understand this tag to be a "disclaimer" for events that might not happen. The problem with these kindof events is that if you look back, say, on the 7th June, you'll find that certain facts that are stated would, by then, be out of date. This is as true for this election as for any other. I think we should be consistent, so I agree it should be kept. Perhaps if you feel strongly you could start a discussion on the template page itself? AndrewRT(Talk) 21:56, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Andrew. It's just an easy way of categorising these articles and having the appropriate "future event" tag at the same time. —Nightstallion 22:48, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Still, no one have explained to me why it is appropriate to have a future event tag. And there is certainly no guideline saying so. This template does categorize the article in Category:Future elections. But I would say it is rather pointless, since the article is already categorized as Category:2009 elections. --Kildor (talk) 18:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
AFAIK, it's Wikipedia policy to clearly identify articles which are not about established events which HAVE already happened but rather speculation about events that WILL happen, and future elections clearly fit that bill. —Nightstallion 12:15, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
I believe you are mistaken. There is no such policy or guideline. And there is really no need for this kind of "warning", since it is perfectly clear from the very first sentence of this article that this election is an upcoming event. BTW, unverified speculation is never acceptable at Wikipedia (WP:CRYSTAL). And any violations to this policy is probably better addressed with the {{crystal}} template. This is however not an issue for this article, since it is based on reliable sources. --Kildor (talk) 00:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Mh, it may well be that this is not official, but it's been used this way for a long time; if you are against this, may I suggest opening the debate on this at some central point? (And letting me know where, if you would be so kind. ;)) I think this should better be discussed elsewhere, as it would affect a lot of articles. —Nightstallion 09:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Try WP:CAFET or Template:Future. A lot of articles have these tags, but a lot of them do not. Since the wording of these templates make them look appropriate to every article about the future, many editors add them without thinking why and without reason. --Kildor (talk) 09:43, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, election articles almost universally have this template -- elections can be postponed for various reasons, parties assumed to contest the election can withdraw, etc.; in this special case, we've got sourced speculation over the election's effect on the EP's group structure, so the template certainly applies. —Nightstallion 09:48, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
As I said above, the future tags applies to every article with any content about the future. But it does not mean these tags should be used (in the same way a "historic tag" could be added to any article about a past event). Do you have any actual reasons to include this tag in this article? --Kildor (talk) 09:53, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

(reindent) As I've just said, "in this special case, we've got sourced speculation over the election's effect on the EP's group structure, so the template certainly applies." —Nightstallion 11:54, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Oops, sorry! Well, so the degree of speculation justifies the tag? And I can't see how this specific template adresses that concern. BTW, have you ever seen any similar banner or "disclaimer" at the top of any article (outside Wikipedia) you've read about an upcoming election? I have not, and I do not understand why it is needed here either. --Kildor (talk) 15:01, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
No, I haven't seen similar boilerplates -- but Wikipedia is not easily comparable to other media or sources of information, if you ask me. Anyway, as I've said, if you would like to end the practice of having these "careful, it's the future" templates, I'd suggest opening a discussion on it at some central point. —Nightstallion 11:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I have brought it up on several places, but with little or no response. And I have removed several tags in the past weeks, and few with any objections. But the last couple of days, I have seen some of my edits reverted, and I should perhaps find another way to proceed with this problem now. But so far, I have not seen any compelling reasons for using these tags, not in this discussion either. --Kildor (talk) 15:23, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, it provides for easy categorisation for elections in the current year which are future elections, at the very least. —Nightstallion 15:45, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Hmm..., Category:Future elections versus {{Future election}}. You're right. That'll save you 8 keystrokes... :) --Kildor (talk) 15:56, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Yep, exactly. ;) —Nightstallion 19:10, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Election date continued

I've been trying to puzzle out the date thing.

  • The German site [1] gives a timetable for next year's Parliament sitting [2]: election dates 4-7 June 2009, constitutive session 14-16 July.
  • The origin of that timetable is from the Parliament on May 21st 2008, when they debated[3] next year's calendar. They changed the date of one of the April sessions so not to clash with the Orthodox Easter, and MEP Hartmut Nassauer kicked up a bit of a fuss:[4] because of the date of the constitutive session, some MEPs may not get their full pension rights. He spoke in German, but a Google translation is "Mr. President! I want before the vote on a problem the attention that this vote and may still be discussed and resolved. You will find in the proposed calendar a reference to the election date of 2009. What we do not agree. We take note of the only way. However, it is clear from the election date of the subsequent appointment of the constituent session of Parliament in July 2009. In this context, that's why there are colleagues from some Member States concerned, because a closer look is evident that in holding the constituent meeting on 14 July for some people to achieve a pension entitlement required five-year period has not yet been met. In some Member States, not the legislature based on, but a set time, because the legislatures in the Member States have different lengths. I think that the initiative is to ensure care and to resolve this problem, either with regard to the election date or in relation to the date of the inaugural session. Therefore, I would like the legal services of Parliament ask." (my bolding)
  • Meanwhile, the Brits are thinking[5] of moving the dates of the 2009 English local elections from "...Thursday 7 May 2009, so that they take place at the same time as the European Parliamentary elections on Thursday 4 June 2009..." (my bolding).
  • From memory, the dates of the election are decided by the Act of 20 September 1976[6] but it can be changed if the Member States agree (I think that nearly happened either in 1999 or 2004).
  • From the bits above, it may be the case that the elections should be held on 11-14 June, but are being held on 4-7 June (Council decision?).
  • Before I hit the books on this one and end up writing an article called Election dates of the European Parliament - which I don't want to do - can anybody shed some light on this?

Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 16:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Panic over. It's 4-7 June 2009. Here are the sources:
Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 17:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Aye, I know by now -- the interesting question is why Luxembourg and Bulgaria want to hold them at the same time, but then set them for 14 June. sighs —Nightstallion 22:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)