Talk:European Commission

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Contents

[edit] Images

The Berlaymont building is really difficult to reduce to a photographically aesthetic composition. Someone should also take a photograph of the sign where it says 'CONSILIUM'; I think it is across the road from the Berlaymont building. -- Kaihsu 20:45, 2004 Jun 29 (UTC) it has executive owers but most of these are delegated to it by the council of ministers and can be periodically removed.

[edit] Legislative initiative

The article had stated that the European Parliament could mandate that the Commission initiate legislation. Its power is nowhere near this strong.

[A]lthough the Parliament enjoys no power of legislative initiative, it has the right under Article 192 (ex Article 138b) to request the Commission to submit a proposal on any matter on which the Parliament thinks a Community act is necessary. While the Treaty imposes no express obligation on the Commission to respond or to provide reasons for rejecting a request, ...the Commission committed itself to undertake "a prompt and sufficently detailed response" to Article 192 requests.

EU Law: Text, Cases, and Materials by Paul Craig and Grainne de Burca, p. 81 (emphasis added). Postdlf 05:43, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I don't know if "mandate" is the correct term, but essentially the parliament has de facto powers of legislative initiative because in practice the Commission finds it very damaging politically to ignore a request. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.138.198.149 (talk) 16:02, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Size

Roughly how big is the Commission? (in terms of staffing and budget administered) - I couldn't find this in the time available - grateful if someone could add. --Cjnm 16:18, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] 'Abuses' of power

I've just snipped this controversial addition - perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me could give it a more NPOV gloss or decide whether it's better off elsewhere? Strikes me that a discussion of the Commission's actions in a technical part of particular policy area doesn't belong on a general introductory page about the Commission! Wombat 16:39, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

At the end of 2004 and at the beginning of 2005 EC has twice put software patents in the agriculture-ministers meeting agendas as a-item. This was an abuse of the system because the item was known to be controversial. The EC decided to follow a pro-patents lobby suggestion even after it has been notified that the new parliament has new objections to the proposition. Furthermore, although the rules demand that a-item be put in agenda two weeks in advance, it was done less than a week before meeting.

Well, it is not merely a small technical problem - this is defining of the whole area of patentability of ideas, with consequences far beyond programming. Besides it seems to be a part of power struggle between different parts of EU administration. As far as I can understand EC has all the formal tools to behave as it does, however, it also explicitly ignores requests of EP and national governments' voices about controversy. The EC behaves as if it was trying to force its version of the directive although it is known to be far from perfect. Almost all of the changes suggested by EP after first reading were reversed, to the state where the directive is pleasing for the pro-patent lobby only. While I understand that large corporations are big tax-payers, they are not the only part of the society the EU is supposed to be. When somebody uses the power they were given in a way that is harming to the society that has granted that power, then I would say it is an abuse. That is why I thought it is relevant for the general page about EC (are there any other pages on EC yet?) --matusz 13:34, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
OK. I wasn't suggesting for a minute that this is an unimportant issue or a 'technicality'. My only query was about whether it belongs on a general page about the Commission. From the explanation above, I think it would be better on a page about the software patent debate, or patentability of ideas, or whatever. I mean, there are countless examples of various lobby groups complaining that various governments and authorities have acted incorrectly or abused their power - but we don't add them to the main pages of the authorities, we add them to the pages on the debate in question. Wombat 15:01, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Probably should be on European Directive on Software Patents, not here, but maybe with a link in see also or sthg here. I supposed the directive page could be linked to with mention that it has caused controversy over how much power the EC should have (cf. with the member states and parliament) and what is considere by many to be a power struggle. Seems to be NPOV to me except it should say that `some believe it is an abuse of the system' or `some MEPs...' (since a lot of MEPs having being complaining about `abuse of the system'). The rest is factually accurate and can be checked from independent sources.
--Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley talk contrib

[edit] political leanings of the commissioners

I think it would be useful if we could somehow list the political leanings of each of the commissioners from both the past and the present. This would be a summary that is unlikely to be present in any other references. We already do this very subtly (with colours) in the article President of the European Commission. Cheers. – Kaihsu 13:18, 2005 Apr 3 (UTC)

Very subtle but I like the idea. The best place to do this is proberbly on each commission page such as Barroso Commission. This page (European Commission) needs links to the various commission pages too (do we still need to keep the current members on this page?). Final point - we should add a key! I'll see what I can do. Andreww 03:36, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It would be nice if you could do it. Cheers. – Kaihsu 08:48, 2005 May 3 (UTC)
I have had a go for the Barroso Commission and sugest we discuss the it there before moving on to the other pages. Andreww 09:56, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Right of initiative under the constitution

Will European Parliament and Council of European Union obtain the right of initiative ,beside European Commission, according to the new European Constitution ?

No. The Commission retains sole right of initiative, i.e. it alone has the job of drafting proposals for Parliament and Council to consider. The constitution does give Parliament, Council and citizens the right to request a proposal to be drafted, and in some limited cases Council and Parliament may act on their own initiative, but not to draft legislation. See this article for more information. (By the way, please sign your talk comments with ~~~~.) Wombat 09:21, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Text removed for NPOVing

I just reverted the following addition by Mortypsmith. This contains some useful information but it needs couching in NPOV terms, something that I don't have time to do right now. Here's the text:

In the wake of the abandonment of the proposed European Constitution following the French and Dutch "no" votes, there has been controversy over the Commission's attempts to continue with several initiatives for which only the Constitution would have provided a legal basis. These include the European Defence Agency, the External Borders Agency, the Human Rights Institute, the Charter of Fundamental Rights, the European Public Prosecutor, politico-military structures, a collective security clause, a diplomatic service and even a space policy.
Furthermore, the Commission has been criticised over the European Political Parties Directive, which seeks to provide state funding for Europe-wide political parties. It has been seen as an attempt to put Eurosceptic parties (which would not meet the funding criteria) at a huge financial disadvantage. This is in addition to a huge amount already spent by the Commission (and other EU bodies) on pro-federalist propaganda, much of it in the form of classroom materials directed at children.

Others may want to rejig some of this and re-add it - or I might have a go at the weekend. Wombat 13:56, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion of specific legislative proposals

Following discussion, some of the above text has been reinstated. However, I have left this text out:

The Commission has also been criticised over the European Political Parties Directive, which seeks to provide state funding for Europe-wide political parties. This has been seen by some as an attempt to put Eurosceptic parties (which would not meet the funding criteria) at a huge financial disadvantage [1]. 25 Members of the European Parliament petitioned the European Court, arguing that this directive contravened the EU's stated values of pluralism and democracy, only to have the case thrown out on a technicality after 18 months [2].

The Commission is the body which drafts nearly all proposals for EU legislation. If we allow this article to include a paragraph of criticism on every single legislative proposal that comes out of the Commission, it will become a very long page indeed! (By analogy, we don't include criticisms of every white paper on the UK government page.) In any case, the text above is already included in a section under European Parliament#Political groups and parties, so I see no need to duplicate here. I suggest that where this text really belongs is on a new page called European Political Parties Directive, by analogy with Directive on the patentability of computer-implemented inventions, which includes a history and extensive criticism of the directive in question. But not here, on the main Commission page. What do others think? Wombat 08:38, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

My view - I would go with European Political Parties Directive if and only if: (i) there is enough info to make it more than a stub and (ii) this directive can be shown to be notable (more notable than all the other directives). An alternitive would be to have European Directives of 2005 (and 2006 etc.) and have it as a section in there. Directives that get enough info there could then end up with its own page. Andreww 09:06, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
As the person who originally posted the paragraph, I quite understand that the European Commission article can't include commentary on every directive the Commission proposes. However, I would say that this directive is particularly important as it influences not just a particular policy area but the democratic process itself, by putting at a financial disadvantage any parties which disagree with the Commission's right to impose legislation over the heads of national parliaments. I think it's important that this information is available to anyone reading about the Commission, not just people who already know about the directive and choose to look it up. As for the amount of information, I have provided links to two articles on the site of an MEP who petitoned the European Court to get this directive rescinded. If you like I could expand the original paragraph, but I assumed you would want it as succinct as possible! Mortypsmith 10:40, 24 October 2005

OK, I see the connection between this specific proposal and the Commission as a subject in its own right (though, as a side issue, a quick read through even this article is enough to disabuse one of the misconception that the Commission can "impose legislation"! ;o) ). I think the connection should be made more explicit, then. I'll have a go at doing that now. Wombat 08:34, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

...Right, I've done my thang. Mortypsmith and others, please feel free to tweak or adapt what's now there! Wombat 08:45, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] About Critics

I am not an expert in European legality but... there are euro-esceptic paries with broad-European dimension. So where is the problem? tell me if im wrong. Anyway, is this the place for such information? I mean, its like 20% of the article, I dont think other governmental institutions have such wikirelevance of their critics, well actually Im not sure, thats why i didnt change anything for myself--Darkmaiki 00:06, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I just found this: Union for a Europe of Nations. And it is formed by a lot of national parties. --Darkmaiki 00:13, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes there certainly are euro-sceptic parties which recognise a common aim with similar parties in other countries and have joined with them in loose federations. However there are also some that haven't, and they should not be discriminated against. You may not agree with them but as Pastor Martin Niemoller pointed out during the last attempt to unite Europe, if you don't speak out when they come for the communists, the trade unionists and the Jews because you don't belong to these groups yourself, then there is no one left to speak out when they come for you.
As for why there should be so much criticism of a governmental institution in its Wikipedia article (does 20% strike you as a lot?), I guess that would be because Wikipedia is an independent and unbiased source of information, not a government shill. I'm afraid this sometimes involves telling truth to power, uncomfortable as that may be. Mortypsmith 12:05, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism section: a couple of points

This relates in part to the above discussion, but just a couple of points about the criticism section, firstly it's not the common format for an encyclopedia article to have the criticism section appear before the purely descriptive sections such as in this case the responsibilities, the appointment procedure and the history sections. I can see no real reason why it appears as the second section and would advocate moving it further down.

Secondly, it presents a series of controversial arguments and doesn't mention the various counter-arguments (which in some of the issues mentioned are far more popular than the Eurosceptic arguments). If nobody objects I will add to this section some of the alternative theories such as those by Andrew Moravcsik and Giandomenico Majone (two of the heavyweights in the study of the European Union) which argue that the Commission is democratic. This is a hugely contentious debate and simply presenting one side is not suitable for an encyclopedia article as far as I'm concerned, were the article purely about the democratic deficit then this may be fair enough, but it raises questions about objectivity when this is done in a general/descriptive article such as this one. --blankfrackis 20:19, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I sorted these two issues out, I didn't remove a great deal of content, but I attempted to make it more streamlined - if we listed every proposal which the Commission has been criticised for the article would be the longest on wikipedia (just as if you listed every proposal by any governing institution that has been criticised). If anyone objects then we can discuss it here. Blankfrackis 20:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Executive

An anon editor challenges the accuaracy of the article, on the grounds that he doesn't see how the commission is "the executive". He has a point to some extent: "executive" is not a good word for what the Commission does. The USA has "the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary": the Executive in the US is Office of the President, who has a great deal of authority. The Commission has nothing like this authority: in European terms, it is a Civil Service, not a Government - but it is far stronger (at least in intercontinental negotiations) than is any national Civil Service. Insofar as the EU has a government, it is the European Council (of national government ministers). The European Parliament has substantially less powers than any national parliament. So it seems to me that the challenge has merit, but only because the word "executive" is the wrong one and is thus inaccurate. --Red King 22:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

The anon editor also writes cryptically "some of its functions are legistlative in nature". No, this is not really correct. Yes, it drafts the laws (Directives) but so does any civil service. It is entirely up to the Council and the Parliament whether these are passed into law, amended and passed, or sent back for reworking. So in no sense is it a legistlature. --Red King 22:32, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure. This is another one of those unique annoyances about the EU, a different word would be good though I think executive can be applied in the absence of one. For those matters that fall within EU competence it does control, it carries out day-to-day running of things. For example when it comes to agencies or policies, or meeting with foreign leaders or ambassadors - I do not think any word relating to legislature or civil service can define the Commissions role in any greater way than executive.
I am for the use of the word executive, though it should be clarified in greater detail when outlining the Commission's powers. Perhaps we should call it an executive in conjunction with the European Council? The Council alone cannot be called one but it does have the remaining powers that would make the word executive far more applicable to the Commission. If we use the same wording as the Parliament (together with the... it forms the... branch of the EU). -JLogan 13:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Oh and looking at the news, -I know this doesn't mean it is so, but it helps- the media certainly sees it in "executive" terms; "The European Commission is the executive body of the European Union." [3] "The European Commission is the executive branch of the EU while the EU Council represents the 25 EU governments." [4] "The European Commission is the executive arm of the European Union." [5]. -JLogan 21:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Nice to see that we are not the only ones struggling with this! I think the big problem is the US elephant in the corner of the room: US readers in particular will read the word "executive" according to the US Constitution and we really need to give them some warning that they have the wrong idea. We can't even use "Administration"! --Red King 23:51, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm removing the Accuracy tag: it seems to me to be based on a fundamental misunderstanding. The tagger hasn't bothered to make his case or engage in the argument. --Red King 23:51, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

And we have a mirror discussion at the top of the page, I've moved it down here, below. I think people are generally on the side of using the term executive, but its different powers should be defined at the start of the responsibilities section (perhaps responsibilities and powers section would be better?) -JLogan 10:21, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I really don't know about using the word "Executive" this implies government in most countries - that the Commissioners are akin to cabinet ministers, that the President of the Commission acts as the President of the European Union etc. That would be incredibly misleading. Aside from that, the problem is that the decision making procedures are entirely different depending on the issue, in some areas (foreign policy co-operation for instance) the Commission has an incredibly limited role and if you were to highlight an executive in that context you would say it was the European Council. The European Council is also responsible for general agenda setting and the treaty process. In fact in the areas of foreign policy and internal security the Commission often has no explicit role at all.
I think personally, I would opt for an escape clause by stating that "in some areas it performs an Executive function" rather than calling it the "Executive of the European Union" outright. If anyone is in any doubt about this being a significant issue there is an overview of the debate in "Formation, Life and Responsibility of the European Executive" by Jean Blondel (available online somewhere I'm sure). Blankfrackis 23:02, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
We have details on its exact powers. And I think it can, and should be compared with a government, with the President as the PM and Commissioners and Ministers. It does have that role and by stating executive will help people understand the Commission better - as it is a very confusing entity for many. In fact if it wasn't it's treaty name I'd be against using the word Commission, because it is nothing like what most people would call a Commission, closer to an executive than anything else. If others still find it is a problem, we could state that it is the executive of the European Communities, for the communities is it's official title and it is the executive over the supranational first pillar element. Then we expand that it has "executive functions" over the rest as well? -JLogan 11:28, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prologue

A Question: Is the European Commission the "Government" of the European Union, and if so, why?

Chris(UK)

An Answer : No, it's a lot more like a Civil Service. --Red King 23:34, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Another Answer: Yes, it is the "Government" (Don't worry, I won't rant on it again) - J Logan t/c: 08:36, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

"The particulars of the enlargement is prior discussed with the Amsterdam Treaty? and last wroted in the Nice Treaty." What does this mean? Rmhermen 21:30, Dec 27, 2003 (UTC)

"The European Commission (formally the Commission of the European Communities) is the executive of the European Union."

Shouldn't this be "the executive branch"? -- Itai 00:26, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Don't think so. "Executive branch" is a rather American term, isn't it?john 00:33, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I honestly don't know. Anyway, I'm willing to take your word for it. -- Itai 00:41, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Well, I'm reading a book on the EU at the moment, and it basically uses "executive". john

"Executive" it is, then. :-) Isn't frequent checking of one's watchlist fun? Gives a chat-like gloss to the all affair. -- Itai 01:09, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Split

I think we can develop information on Commissioners enough for there to be a separate page on it, like there are for other such positions. That way we can just have the essential information on the EC page rather than the details that not necessarily have a huge impact on the working of it. Could perhaps add to it details on the nature and history of the portfolios? I think it's an area that will certainly expand. -JLogan 17:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA comments for possible improvement

Hello, I noticed this article is a GAN, so here's a few thoughts.

  1. Be consistent in placing the fullstops either before or after the citation (and the same applies to commas). At the moment it is inconsistent.
  2. "The current President is José Manuel Barroso, who leads the Barroso Commission who took office in 2004." -- I can't help but feel this sentence is a little weird, but I could be wrong.
  3. "aka, the "Midday Presser"" -- a little too informal
  4. "For example; executive, budget and representative functions as well as independence and collective responsibility" -- can be better written. Manderiko 12:57, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Basically I think this article has potential in terms of content, but I believe the GA reviewer may have issues with prose, and to some extent, need for citations. Manderiko 13:07, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm starting to deal with it now, rewritten the areas you mentioned and I'm going through the prose slowly now. Thanks again! - J Logan t/c: 15:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article nomination passed

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  5. It is stable.
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
  7. Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:

Reasons for verdict and suggestions:

  • The article is of a high standard, with my only criticism being certain parts of the prose. For example: "The former of these two bodies is generally considered...", by whom is it generally considered to be something? Also, the first paragraph in the College section is a bit awkward to follow, and there is a grammatical error half way through ("political influence, language proficiency (e.g. French), membership in the eurozone and within Schengen" - should have been "...(French) and membership in..."
  • On the whole, an excellent article; well referenced to reliable sources, is NPOV and each image has fair use rationale. I also felt as if I have learnt something today ! Keep up the good work and keep this article to the standards of a Good Article! Good work!

Mouse Nightshirt | talk 20:57, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll get started on sorting that out now. - J Logan t/c: 21:10, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] general day-to-day running

This is a vacuous and unencyclopedic term. If it means anything, it is probably misleading. The commission surely deals with policy rather than quotidinal administration.

Both. What term to replace "general day-to-day running" that is equally understood and means the same thing? - J Logan t: 18:35, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Welcher Europäische Beamte ist dafuer verantwortlich?

Es gibt die Europäische Kommission, Europäischen Rat, Europäisches Parlament, Europäischen Haushaltsplan (124.000.000.000 Euro 2008), 80.000 Seiten Freier Wirtschaftsraum Europäische Union.
Am Grenzuebergang NARVA Grenzstadt zwischen Europäischen Union und Russland stehen 40 Tonnen Europäische Produkte in 200 Lastkraftwagen. Die Schange ist mindestens 5 bis 10 Kilometer lang und die Wartezeit ist mindestens fuer Estonische und Russische LKW 24 Stunden.
Europarechtliche Vertragsgrundlage ist das der Fehler bei der Europäischen Union ist.
NARVA (Estland)März 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.159.171.78 (talk) 15:51, 8 March 2008 (UTC)