Talk:Ethnic groups in Bosnia and Herzegovina

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Comments:

M.H, your description of dialects in B-H sounds more complex than it is.

Is there some litterature on persecution of Catholics in Ottoman Empire? We know about ahdnama granting rights to franciscans.

Is there a better way to say "work on the land" ? (obradjivati zemlju)? How do you say in English nerodna godina? :)

I'd like you two to show this to some more eyes, hopefully we can straighten this out so it could replace all the contradictory stuff found on historical and ethnical articles. --Vedran 16:29, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)

1. "till the land" (obrađivati zemlju); bad year(nerodna godina); yes, on persecution there are a few books, for instance by historians Srećko Džaja, Pavo Živković,e tc.-even in Ćorović "Istorija Srba"-it can be seen on the Web; also, some linx-putting aside pathetic overtones- http://www.referendum.8k.com/Povijest7.htm . For dialects- they are descrobed at http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Serbo-Croatian_language . Here's the paste: Although- it wouldnt be bad, just in order to dispell a few misty ideas, to present a diachronic table of Štokavian dialects and documents written in dialects:
1. the dialectal picture at the turn of the century (19/20) and ethnic/national affiliation:


New Štokavian
Štokavian-Ekavian (Vojvodina dialect, "eastern"): vastly Serbian
Štokavian-Ekavian (Šumadija dialect): vastly Serbian
Štokavian-Ikavian ("western"): vastly Croatian and Bosniak
Štokavian-Ijekavian ("southern"): Serbian and Montenegrin (predominantly-ca 60%), Croat (ca.20%) and Bosniak (ca. 20%)
Old Štokavian
Kosovo-Resava (Ekavian) dialect: vastly Serbian
Zeta dialect (Ijekavian): vastly Montenegrin
Slavonian dialect (Ikavian): vastly Croatian
Eastern-Bosnian dialect(Ijekavian): vastly Croat and Bosniak
Pre-1800 literature (sacral, secular, legal, commercial,philological,..) written in Štokavian vernacular:


vastly Croatian (sacral, secular, legal, philological,..). Written in Štokavian-Ijekavian ("southern") and Štokavian-Ikavian ("western"). Writers are from Dalmatia (Split, Dubrovnik, Korčila island, Zadar,..), Lika region, Slavonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina. Written mainly in Latin script, but also in Bosnian/Croatian Cyrillic. The sacral literature begins in 1380-1400, and secular in ca. 1480-1490. More than 95% of Štokavian vernacular texts before 1800 are Croatian.
there are instances of Bosnian Muslim Štokavian vernacular literature: Uskjufi's dictionary from 1630s and Kaimi's poetry in the 17th cent. First Bosnian Muslim vernacular poem is "Chirwat turkisi" (Croatian song), authored by Mehmed of Erdely (1579 ?). This literature is written mainly in Arabic script, with a few works in Bosnian Cyrillic
also, there are instances of pre-1800 Serbian Štokavian literature: these include works by Gavrilo Venclović, Jovan Rajić and Zaharija Orfelin (all in the 18th century). These texts are written in Serbian Cyrillic.
Link on dialects: http://ostava.012webpages.com/Slika%20dijalekata%20po%20D.%20Brozovicu.htm -also at Serbo-Croatian article page.
Mir Harven 21:37, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I don't dispute this I just think that perhaps it's too broad for this article. Perhaps a "see also" to the Serbo-Croat language article is sufficient? --Vedran 12:47, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] statistics

A recent genetical study showed that variance of genome is larger among members of the same nation than between nations Hmm, does this part make sense? Wouldn't it at least be "the same amount of variety"? 192.234.223.100 16:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

No, that doesn't make sense, and there are no sources cited to support that claims - quite the contrary:

The high frequency and diversity of Haplogroup I1b1* (P37.2) among populations of the Western Balkans lends support to the hypothesis that the Adriatic region of modern-day Croatia served as a refuge for populations bearing Haplogroup I1b1* during the last glacial maximum. These groups seem to be the ancestors of about 38% of modern day Croats (75% of Bosnian Croats).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I_%28Y-DNA%29
and

Genetically, on the Y chromosome line, a majority (>87%) of Croats belong to one of the three major European Y-DNA haplogroups -- Haplogroup I (38%), Haplogroup R1a 35% and Haplogroup R1b 16%. The haplogroups J, E and G constitute together less than 10% - significantly lower than other populations in the region.[8] Furthermore the dominant presence of haplogroup I is rather interesting. This group exists in Europe only and is fairly wide-spread, but in relatively small percentages. Its frequency in the Balkans is high, but the only populations that have similar levels of the I group are the Scandinavians. [9] There are a number of relevant conclusions that can be drawn from the genetic data. First of all it gives strong support to the theory that the region of modern day Croatia served as a refuge for northern populations during the last glacial maximum (LGM). After the LGM there was a migration to the north of the people whose offspring today form a significant portion of the three aforementioned Scandinavian populations. Those who decided to stay are the ancestors of about 38 per cent of modern day Croats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theories_on_the_origin_of_Croats

Milejerkovic 05:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ethnic Maps are INNACURATE - Request to Include non-copyrighted OHR Maps

Ethnic Maps (before and after the war) are inaccurate.

For accurate Ethnic Maps, one should consult maps issued by the Office of High Representative for Bosnia-Herzegovina.

Here is the link: http://www.ohr.int/ohr-info/maps/

We can include those maps into wikipedia, they are not copyrighted.

Bosniak 06:47, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I visited the website you linked to and see no evidence that the maps there are not under copyright. Please provide evidence supporting your assertion that the maps can be legally reproduced on Wikipedia. —Psychonaut 09:48, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External link

According to WP:EL links that should be avoided include links to "sites that are only indirectly related to the article's subject: it should be a simple exercise to show how the link is directly and symmetrically related to the article's subject." So, go for it...--Hadžija 12:34, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

For me the the link from IPWR was related to the subject of the article.--MaGioZal 12:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bosnia-Herzegovina is a Nation

Bosnia-Herzegovina is a nation. Bosniaks, Bosnian Serbs, and Bosnian Croats are ethnic groups that comprise nation of Bosnia-Herzegovina.

Therefore, the article should stay renamed as Ethnic Groups of Bosnia-Herzegovina.

Bosniak 03:10, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Except that "groups" should be lowercase, (and, btw, you didn't fix the double redirects). Otherwise, I agree; "nation" in this sense was Bosglish/Serbglish/Croglish.
Actually, the title should in my opinion be "Ethnogenesis" in Bosnia and Herzegovina"; its original (and most current) scope was how the modern Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks achieved their respective identities; but I won't nitpick. Duja► 13:28, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge proposal

Please see Talk:Bosnians#Merging Duja► 11:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)