Talk:Ethereal Wave

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[edit] Influences

I've added a few influences, both listing the musical elements (ambient, classical and world music in their broadest senses crop up) as well as specific artists. In my experience of reviewing considerable numbers of ethereal releases, the most common muscial influences were This Mortal Coil, Dead Can Dance and, to a certain degree, the Cocteau Twins, while vocally, Siouxsie and Julianne Regan (All About Eve) were the most commonly imitated. Donnacha 15:12, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where is Darkwave? Why no Dark Ambient.

Actually there is no page for 'Darkwave, consider making one. Instead I linked fo 'Daark ambiant, which lists this as a subgenre.

ethereal or etheric wave is a term from the early '90s to describe these "floating" guitar sounds of bands like love spirals downwards or trance to the sun. This music is Ambient-influenced, but it's not a substyle of Ambient.
Darkwave and Dark Ambient now exist. Donnacha 15:12, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Additions

I added a few artists: The Shroud, Requiem in White/Mors Syphilitica, and Trio Nocturna. I will add many more later once I have the time. Let's make this a comprehensive list of the greatest Gothic subgenre out there! ;) JanderVK

Ethereal Wave isn't a Goth subgenre. --Menorrhea 18:55, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm confused. The bands mentioned in this article are discussed, reviewed and interviewed in Goth magazines and their recordings are sold in specialist Goth outlets and in the Goth section of general record shops. For that reason I have assumed that they constitute a sub-genre of Goth. Apparently I'm not alone in that assumption. So why is it wrong? How would you categorise these bands, and what sub-genres of Goth do you recognise? As a newcomer to the field, I want to know these things. Charivari 03:18, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
OK, this is moving dangerously towards a "What is Goth?" discussion. The first point I'd make is that the Goth scene (including magazines, shops and clubs) is broader than simply Gothic Rock music. Ethereal Darkwave is considered part of that scene by most within the scene. As a style, Ethereal is a sub-set of Darkwave. Darkwave is a crossover genre, not a sub-genre, so it's not purely associated with Goth (there's bits of industrial, post-industrial and synthpop in there as well). Musically, Ethereal has as much to do with Shoegaze/Dreampop as Goth. Donnacha 08:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Many people are thinking that any kind of dark music is goth music... but that's a fallacy. In my opinion there are regional and personal differences. In Germany, the new Goth (neogoth?) generation doesn't know Ethereal Wave music. Here it's more a part of the formerly (dark-)wave culture. --Menorrhea 00:16, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
In Germany? All of it? It's hard to find two Goths in Dublin (which has a very small scene) who agree on the definition and where the boundaries are, I guarantee it's the same in Germany. Donnacha 08:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Germany has a great trend-oriented Goth scene within the dark culture. Music styles like Futurepop, Aggrotech or Goth metal predominate in German clubs and magazines. When you ask people about that "Goth thing", they say that "Goth music" is music of Nightwish, Manson, Blutengel or Subway to Sally. They think that Goth music is identical to Goth metal or Electrogoth. Many people don't know Gothic rock, they don't know Death rock, they don't know Ethereal music and they're thinking that VNV Nation is Dark wave... It's a really stupid and chart-oriented generation. In the Ruhr Area clubs it makes "boom boom boom" all the night. You'll automatically think that you're dancing in a techno club. --Menorrhea 20:47, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Germany is also the country in which Wave-Gotik-Treffen happens, so don't generalise. Also, go to Slimelight in London, one of the world's longest running "Goff" clubs. It regularly has a trad goth floor, an industrial/EBM/futurepop floor and, at the top, a boom boom boom techno noise floor. I was fairly infamous for playing the likes of Utah Saints, Messiah and the KLF in Goth clubs - my last set in a Dublin Goth club was electroclash. That doesn't mean I don't also like ethereal (though, I did get a bit bored of it a few years ago, I've since gotten back into it). Donnacha 21:16, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Look there... it looks like a German club, but it's in Montreal/Canada. Oh heaven, i'm getting sick... --Menorrhea 21:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I find that people need to pigeonhole music far too much. Is it so terrible to go with broader genre names instead of the potentially endless list of subgenres that can be created? Yakwhacker 18:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
New genres - new names. --~Menorrhea 14:12, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I've just added Cranes. I really think they should be here. I feel they're very notable, and, they have a good six or so albums worth of music (including eps, singles, etc...) that fit perfectly into this thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.228.26 (talk) 06:22, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A dead genre!

Lycia, Love Spirals Downwards, Mors Syphilitica, Siddal, This Ascension, Trance to the Sun, Autumn's Grey Solace - all notable groups and figureheads of the genre split up or changed their style. Ethereal is consequently a dead genre. --Breathtaker 13:59, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Nah. It may be in slight remission at the moment. But, I really don't believe it'll really die anytime soon. There's a pretty vibrant nu-gazing scene, and as long as Projekt goes on, it'll all come back together. Though, LSD, Lovesliescrushing, Lycia, etc., will probably never be topped. I'm sure we'll still get pretty good bands like Tearwave (hate their name, though) now and again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.228.26 (talk) 06:56, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Nu-gazing isn't Ethereal. Tearwave isn't pure Ethereal. Autumn's Grey Solace changed their style. And without its figureheads the Ethereal movement is dead. At present, i can't find any notable Ethereal group. --Breathtaker 09:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Love Spirals Downwards - Stir About The Stars (1992).ogg

Image:Love Spirals Downwards - Stir About The Stars (1992).ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 18:48, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Siddal - Beds Of Light (1996).ogg

Image:Siddal - Beds Of Light (1996).ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 09:45, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Siddal - Beds Of Light (1996).ogg

Image:Siddal - Beds Of Light (1996).ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Love Spirals Downwards - Stir About The Stars (1992).ogg

Image:Love Spirals Downwards - Stir About The Stars (1992).ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 13:21, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Heavenly voices/ethereal Wave

There's a dispute over the use of the term heavenly voice. User:Ada Kataki keeps on deleting sourced material, because he doesn't seem to understand that in some countries the term "heavenly voices" is really used as a genre's name.

I know the term was basically used as a marketing name and as a compilation's name BUT here in Europe and most particularly in France the term "heavenly voices" is exclusively used as GENRE's NAME to refer to Ethereal wave. "Ethereal wave" is difficult to pronounce in French hence the fact the term "heavenly voices" is more commonly used. This name genre is used to refer to bands such as Love Spirals Downwards or Dead Can Dance. that is to say Ethereal wave bands.

I DO have published source which explicitely use this name as a genre's name and as an synonym to ethereal wave. Period.A book dedicated to gothic and dark music:

Check by yourself: http://carnetsnoirs.free.fr/html_cn1/contenu.html

So please refrain from deleting sourced material. Moreover note that you have violated the Three-revert rule. You may be blocked for that next time you'll do that. Frédérick Duhautpas (talk) 21:09, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


Hello! I scanned a page from the German Gothic and Dark Wave encyclopedia.
Heavenly Voices is an utterly useless term without a clear definition. It was only a marketing term. Female vocals + atmospheric sounds. That's all. But in Ethereal Wave there are also male singers (Trance to the Sun, Lycia). --Ada Kataki (talk) 21:18, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't care, still the term heavenly voice is used as a genre's name in France. And I provide an authoritative source for that. I'm not contesting yours. But while this term is only a marteking term in some other countries it doesn't mean it is the case in some others. Because it is not used that way in Germany doesn't mean it is not used in other countries. period.What I propose is to insert your source to indicate that in some other countries, heavenly voices is not considered as a real genre.
What that got to do with the current article dispute? I got a published source where it is explicitely claimed. Period. And you dare to delete a sourced material. Your opinion concerning other wikipedia's articles doesn't matter here. And you're deleting a sourced material arguing " we're not in France!" But please care to read the rules concerning local Bias. I didn't change this article name for heavenly voices! No, I only mentioned that in some other countries this name is used as a synonym to ethereal wave. Because something doesn't happen in your culture doesn't mean it doesn't in other cultures. Stop judging things from your own cultural perspective. Period. Frédérick Duhautpas (talk) 21:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
What that got to do with the current article dispute?
Ethereal Wave isn't the same like Heavenly Voices. Ethereal Wave is primarily a guitar genre (a guitar synthesizer genre), influenced by Cocteau Twins, early Dead Can Dance and others. But the french Heavenly Voices article deals primarily with Neoclassical groups, not Ethereal Wave bands. Why don't you create an English Heavenly Voices article? But please, don't ignore my published source. --Ada Kataki (talk) 22:26, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Please care to read What I'm saying. I'm not refering to the french wiki article( I didn't write it)Here I'm refering to an authoritative published source which explictely states what I'm arguing. So attaking the french wiki article is pointless and absurd. You don't prove anything doing so cause I didn't refer to it. I'm refering to a Book which explictely deals with ethereal wave genre. Period. But I agree Ethereal wave is primarly a guitar genre influenced by Cocteau Twins and Dead Can dance.But this genre in France is called officially Heavenly voices. Frédérick Duhautpas (talk) 22:52, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Protected

The page is now protected for five days days. During this time, please try and find common ground and arrive to a version that all can live with. If you cannot, this is a good time to pursue dispute resolution such as third opinions or requests for comments. If you are ready to resume editing or to contest the protection, place a request at WP:RFPP. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 01:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)