Talk:Eric Gagné

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[edit] Verify

Can anyone verify that his name has an accent over the E in "Eric"? I have never seen that before anywhere. Also, an anon ruined the history of this page by copying and pasting the content to the new, accented location (as opposed to moving the article), but there's probably little that can be done about that now... RADICALBENDER★ 22:30, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It seems to be the French spelling, see the Google search [1]. I'm not sure about it, but both é's look reasonable to me. Nobbie 10:14, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Having looked at various baseball sites, including his profile at ESPN it seems that his name is most often spelled as "Eric Gagne" and not "Éric Gangé" or "Eric Gangé". I've therefore moved it. violet/riga (t) 15:25, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The French tend to not include accents that are on the first letter of a capitalized word. I submit that the title should be Eric Gagne 128.61.70.49 10:18, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It's a very tough issue. Most baseball sites omit accents entirely because of issues just like this one. His name most definitely has an accent over the last e in Gagne but I think all wikipedia articles on baseball should keep accents out of the article title. Zellin 01:33, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

Oops, I meant "Eric Gagné" above. Don't know why I didn't write it that way. Anyway, I believe in maintaining accuracy, so we should write his name as he would write it. People who search for "Eric Gagne", the more common way people write his name, should be directed to "Eric Gagné", the correct spelling. 128.61.70.49 04:41, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I agree with this. It is an insult not to include the accent and the redirect should be the other way around. Anyone know how to do that without copy/paste? →Vik Reykja 22:52, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.


Éric Gagné → Eric Gagné. Most sources use the unaccented "Eric Gagne", but "Eric Gagné" is also used. Here are some blog posts about whether his name has accents over it, which was all I could find on the subject. Nothing that says the E in Eric has one. Recury 18:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add "# Support" or "# Oppose" on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

[edit] Survey - in support of the move

  • Support as nominator. Recury 18:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Support move to Eric Gagne with no accents as that is how is name seems to be most often used in sports papers & reports. Blog posts are not the most reliable of sources. As a life long Dodgers fan, I will note that while many players have had accents and special characters on their uniforms, I never seen Gagne will an accent on anything. 205.157.110.11 22:17, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Support from those two choices. As nominator says, "Most sources use the unaccented "Eric Gagne", but "Eric Gagné" is also used". So that is clearly the appropriate name. Sure, the current name is most clearly wrong, but do it right. At least make it a choice between the two reasonable alternatives, not between a really bad one and a marginal one. Gene Nygaard 22:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC) Changed 18:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey - in opposition to the move

  • Oppose. Clearly "Gagne" is wrong; it should be "Gagné". Here's an image of his name on the back of his jersey and an image of the cover of his book. However, that book cover doesn't have an accent on "Éric". This is a tougher call. In French, the name is Éric, but it is very, very common to not put accents on capital letters, especially first letters. But in real, typeset text, the accents are mandatory. It depends on whether Wikipedia is informal or "professional." English-language publishers tend to drop all accents (as we've seen with José and café), so here are some links to French Canadian sites that all include the accents on both his first and last name: [2] [3] [4]. These aren't blogs, but newspaper and media publishers. FJM 09:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    No, "Gagne" is clearly not wrong. It is quite legitimate and proper to use the English alphabet when writing in English. Or French when writing in French; you cite an article[5] which has many people at spellings different from the ones used in Wikipedia articles. For example, Danys Baez with no á, Armando Benitez with no í, and not only not an á but not even an é in Damaso Marte.
    The proper article name is the one under which he is best known in English. He is never, never known in English with an "É", so that's the only one which is clearly wrong. The others are a matter of picking an appropriate one from among legitimate choices. Gene Nygaard 18:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    I have never seen him actually wear that jersey in a game. It maybe a special edition retail version but there are several retail versions that obviously don't have the accent too. I can take a picture of my son's but I don't think that is needed. 205.157.110.11 01:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

If anyone can find any good sources that discuss the accents in his name, then I will gladly change/withdraw the nomination. Recury 18:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Er, nevermind. A book he wrote lists his name as "Eric Gagné". That should be good enough. [6] Recury 18:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
For the record, this is how the article got where it is:
  • The move from "Éric Gagné" to "Éric Gagné" was an unreferenced, undiscussed move on 21 January 2006 by New World Man (talk | contribs) with an edit summary that only said "added diacritics".
  • Not only has New World Man not provided any discussion on this talk page, but has not edited any talk page since April of 2006, except to move talk pages as part of a whole lot of other unreferenced, undiscussed moves.
There is no reason whatsoever for you or anyone else to bust your ass off trying to give a post hoc justification to a bad move by some unresponsive editor like this. Gene Nygaard 22:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not, I'm just trying to figure out whether it should be at Gagne or Gagné. The cover of a book co-written by him would surely have the right accents, though. Recury 13:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
With 1–1½ votes for each of "Eric Gagne", "Eric Gagné" and "Éric Gagné", the consensus is not particularly clear, but it seems that Eric Gagné is acceptable to the greates number of participants. Thus, Éric Gagné shall be moved to Eric Gagné. --Stemonitis 16:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

The principal reason for NOT placing an accute accent, or any accent for that matter, on a letter, is quite simple; U.S. standard keyboard and its settings. So if the editors wish, they could simply use "Canadian multilingual keyboard" for their keyboard (available for all OS). By doing so, you would have ALL the Western European languages at your disposal.Thinghy 05:02, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

On a not-exactly-related note, another well-known baseball player, Greg Gagne, pronounced his name ['gægni]. I don't really know how that means anything, but it does show the contrast between French-Canada and Massachusetts. And yes, the accent on 'Eric' does really come down to the question of how formal Wikipedia's French is. That's a question I cannot answer. --Xyzzyva 06:20, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comparison to Dennis Eckersley

I think the paragraph about Gagne being "often compared" to Dennis Eckersley should be modified or cut. I've never heard such a comparison (let alone hearing it often), and there's no citation backing up the frequent comparison. On top of that, it's a deceptive comparison. Eckersley had a long career as a starting pitcher. Only about a dozen active pitchers have as many wins as Eckersley. Thus, the Eckersley/Gagne comparison may lead readers to assume that Eckersley was much less successful as a starter or that Gagne was much more successful as a starter. --JamesAM 00:24, 3 June 2007 (UTC)


I concur. You almost never hear Gagné compared to Eck. They are dissimilar pitchers in most respects -- Eck was a very good starter, G wasn't; Eck's career extended well into what you might call his baseball dotage, G is still young and there's no way to determine how long he'll be around; Eck wasn't especially injury prone, Gagné is like a fabregé egg. Their style of pitching is different, too: Eckersley relied on a shar slider more than anything else, and Gagné relies on throwing a million miles an hour. I'd say cut it. Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway. 17:21, 3 June 2007 (UTC)


Okay, I removed the following from the article:

Gagné has often been compared to Baseball Hall of Famer Dennis Eckersley. Both were former starters who found much success after moving to the bullpen. Gagné's dominating stretch from 2002-2004 is similar to Eckersley's :during the 1988-1992 seasons. They both have won a Cy Young Award as a relief pitcher, only a handful in the history of the game to do so. In fact, Gagné was the first reliever since Eckersley to win the award.

It doesn't cite any sources for Eckersley comparisons, and they're not actually that similar, as per above. If someone can make a compelling case for its inclusion -- including a citation for someone making an honest appraisal of the two, and concluding that they are in some meaningful way similar -- then I'll put it back. Until then, it doesn't seem to belong.Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway. 20:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed Wiki Link

I removed the following from the article:

Gagne isn't on the list, so I don't really see how it belongs here. If I've just missed him, let me know, but until such a time as his name appears on that page, there's no reason to link to it from his. As it was, it seemed to imply that he is on that list. Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway. 05:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

He's 50th. ~Guest

Fixed. Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway. 20:11, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eric Gagne

Let's stop with him becoming a member of the Red Sox until the trade becomes official. See http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2955966. He has to wave his no-trade cause. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 19:07, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Buster Olney just announced that it was official--Yankees10 19:46, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

How do we even know he is going to wear number #38 for the Sox? Its only been 4 minutes since the deadline ended --DiscoEv

I've added him as # 36 on {{Boston Red Sox 2}}. I hope its ok. -- JA10 Talk • Contribs 05:50, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moved bio to references section, early life needs cleanup

I moved the external link for the bio to the references section and cited it for the early life section. Other sections probably refer to it as well and should add <ref name="bio" /> where needed. I rewrote the Early Life section, removing unencyclopedic material, sourcing what I could, and tagging what I couldn't. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 20:39, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Jockbio isn't reliable, I'll look for better sources. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 20:42, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Better sources are always good and if you find them, by all means use them in preference to JockBio. However, I disagree that JockBio isn't reliable enough to use here. Two dozen other articles use it. I'm opening the question for debate below. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 21:47, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
The MLB biography in {{Baseballstats | mlb=150378 | espn=4181 | br=g/gagneer01 | fangraphs=650 | cube=G/eric-gagne}} has information on his early life. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 22:48, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Yea, I'm going to use that, I was planning to make this article featured, but I delayed it because of instability, and instead I'm working on a few others first (I'm almost done with Bob Meusel). Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 23:02, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Featured? Wow. Doesn't it have to be Good first? davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 02:45, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Not really, either good or a Wikipedia:Peer review is fine. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 04:11, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reliability of JockBio.com

Regarding the removal of <ref name="bio">[http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/Gagne/Gagne_bio.html Detailed biography of Gagné], retrieved [[2007-08-05]]</ref>:

Is http://www.jockbio.com a reliable enough source for sports biographies? Their own web site bills them as The comprehensive, professionally researched and written story of an athlete’s life—the one thing you can NEVER find on the net...even at an athlete’s own web site! and claims the bios are written by Some of the most widely published sportswriters in the country. Self-promotion doesn't make it true. However, false advertising laws and the desire to maintain a good reputation do lend credibility to these claims. With that in mind, until proven otherwise I'd judge it somewhere somewhere between a blog and a reputable newspaper by the standards of Wikipedia:Verifiability. In particular: Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Sources should be appropriate to the claims made: exceptional claims require exceptional sources. Since the source is being used to support claims that are repeated in print newspapers and official records of the day, the claims are mundane and not exceptional. This makes jockbio a good secondary source for pre- and early-professional-career information and a lot easier to track down than primary sources or contemporary secondary sources such as newspapers of the day. These preferred sources may not be online, may not be easily searchable, or may not be easily available without payment. 24 other articles cite jockbio.com. What do you all think: Should the jockbio.com removal edit be undone? I'm asking to avoid a revert war. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 21:45, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I just looked at random jockbios articles, comments like "Ryan is already viewed as a leader by his Washington teammates. That says a lot about his maturity and the way he plays the game. He has the kind of make-up that suggests he'll rise to the occasion under the pressure of a pennant race or the playoffs." from the Ryan Zimmerman article there, makes me think PoV "blog" here, others had rather obvious typos, etc. I'm rather surpriced that Jockbio doesn't name who are Some of the most widely published sportswriters in the country., and how they got those sources. It isn't reliable. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 22:14, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I noticed http://www.jockbio.com/HTML/whoweare.html, some of the writers are in college, the founder, Mark Stewart seems to be a childrens book author and same with the other founder Mike Kennedy, not the most published sportswriters in the buisness. Jaranda wat's sup 22:22, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I footnoted to JockBio for the reference to Gagné's starring role in the Junior World Championships, but for nothing else. Feel free to change it if you find a better reference for the Junior World Championships. Also, if there is a verifiable reference that explains how Gagné learned English (which I deleted from the article, because I couldn't find any source stating that he learned it through sitcoms), please add the description and the reference.AyaK 01:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment

I have assessed this as B Class as, despite its weaknesses, it seems to cover most of what is required of a Good Article (but certainly not all), and as low importance, as I do not feel that many people outside of baseball would be familiar with the subject of the article. Cheers, CP 20:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Description of first game played for the Brewers

I recommend removing (and already removed once) the description of the outcome of the first game that Gagné played for the Brewers due to non-notability. Unless it somehow turns out to be his only game, then it's really no more special than any other game he'll play for them. There's really nothing particularly noteworthy about it to make it worth mentioning separately, as will become more and more apparent the more games he plays for Milwaukee. Cumulative statistics for the entire or significant portions of the season would be more appropriate. The problem with including a description of this one game, however, is that it encourages other editors to add to the trend, and before you know it, we have a long and unencyclopedic list of individual non-noteworthy games here. We're best off removing it now. --DachannienTalkContrib 04:18, 2 April 2008 (UTC)