Talk:Erfurt school shooting

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Germany Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no

This article is part of WikiProject Criminal Biography, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide on true crime and criminology-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start	This article has been rated as start-Class on the assessment scale.
Low	This article is on a subject of low-importance for Crime-related articles.
WikiProject Crime To-do: edit  Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Criminal Biography: Requests: Magdalena Solis, Justina Morley, Impersonating an officer, List of major crimes in the United States, Shanghai Kelly, Tucker Prison Farm, Kendall Francois, Purgatory Correctional Facility Expand: Credit card fraud, Theresa Knorr, Marybeth Tinning, Brenda Ann Spencer, Lords of Chaos (self-styled teen militia), Stubs: Calling card (crime), Federal crime, Leslie Irvin (serial killer), Violent crime, Crime Classification Manual, Anthony Sawoniuk Perfect crime Images: Charles Ray Hatcher, Thor Nis Christiansen, Richard Cottingham, Caleb Fairley

Image:Serialkillerstaskforcelogonewtry.png	This article is part of the Serial Killer Task Force, a work group of WikiProject Crime. It is an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide on serial killers, mass murders, spree killers and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start	This article has been rated as start-class on the assessment scale.
Mid	This article is on a subject of mid-importance for serial killer-related articles.
Serial Killer Task Force To-do: edit  Here are some tasks you can do to help with the Serial Killer Task Force: Add a photo and/or the Serial Killer Infobox to an article. Articles that need an infobox and/or photo Make a request for the creation of an article: James Brussel, Magdalena Solis, Kendall Francois, Herman Billick, Lawrence Bittaker and Roy Norris, Rudy Bladdel, Joseph Briggen, Harvey Carignan, David Carpenter (serial killer), James and Susan Carson, Alfred Leonard Cline, Daniel Corwin, Donald Leroy Evans, Herman Drenth, Billy Gohl, Billy Glaze, Harrison Graham, David Alan Gore, Fred Waterfield, William Henry Hance, Ann Marie Hahn, Joseph Kallinger, Gary and Thaddeus Lewingdon, Ralph Lobaugh and Franklin Click, Anjette Lyles, Frederick Mors, Gordon Northcott, Melvin Rees, Miguel Rivera, George Sack, Tommy Searl, Ralph Ray Searl, Lydia Sherman, Timothy Spencer, Frank Carter (serial killer), Donald Piper (serial killer), Cheryl Miller (serial killer), Ricky Davis and Dena Riley Make a request for the expansion of an article: Maury Travis, Scott Williams (serial killer)

Contents 1 Gutenburg vs Gutenberg 2 Double Image 3 Accomplice vs accessory 4 Use of "Grammar School" 5 Merge? 6 Death toll 7 Rainer Heise? 8 Concerning School Laws

[edit] Gutenburg vs Gutenberg

why is this articled called Gutenburg? the school is named after johann Gutenberg, the inventor of some bookprintint techniques.

[edit] Double Image

Why do we need two pictures of the school from the exact same angle at different times? Is there a time-lapse effect or some drastic changes that have ocurred between the pictures? I'm going to remove the darker image. --ʀ6ʍɑʏ89 02:58, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Accomplice vs accessory

excluded an accomplice, but not an accessory.

Sounds like a technical legal difference under German law. Can someone explain the difference in the article? Tempshill 22:08, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

There was a rumor of a second killer. A policeman located Steinhäuser´s position wrong, behind a tree on the schoolyard. After Steinhäuser shot an other policeman from inside the school he thought of a second killer. -- Noirceuil 19:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

From Accessory (legal term)

In some jurisdictions, an accessory is distinguished from an accomplice, who normally is present at the crime and participates in some way. An accessory must generally have knowledge that a crime is being, or will be committed. A person with such knowledge may become an accessory by helping or encouraging the criminal in some way, or simply by failing to report the crime to proper authority. The assistance to the criminal may be of any type, including emotional or financial assistance as well as physical assistance or concealment.

Zarboki 15:00, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I added wikilinks to the articles about the two terms.--Stijn Vermeeren 14:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Use of "Grammar School"

The correct translation for "Gymnasium" is high school, particularly when referring to the years this article refers to (ie. year 10), as High School (in most English speaking countries) is a public secondary school including grades 9 through 12, while "Grammar school" usually encompasses the first 6 or 8 grades. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 139.163.138.14 (talk • contribs) 05:21, 26 September 2006.

There is no correct translation for "Gymnasium". The German school system has four different secondary schools, each beginning (mostly) at grade 5: Gymnasium (leading to 12th/13th grade Abitur), Realschule (leading to 10th grade Realschulabschluss), Hauptschule (leading to 9th grade Hauptschulabschluss), Gesamtschule (leading to each of these exams in the respective grades). High Schools are more similar to Gesamtschule than to Gymnasium. That's why, one should use the German word "Gymnasium" whenever possible, and in case, explain it. Toscho 17:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

This kind of fits in here: Since the Gymnasium (or high school) in Germany is 13 years it should state that in the article correctly. As of right now it talks about 12 years. If no one objects, I will change it. Neutralityisimportant (talk) 06:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge?

I think the Robert Steinhäuser article should be merged into this one, because it doesn't add anything that could not well be integrated here. Please speak up if you are against this, but remember that, after all, Steinhäuser is not known for anything else besides the massacre. Kncyu38 21:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Support. Toscho 18:13, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death toll

The intro didn't count a police officer in the death toll. I'm fixing it and making it more specific in breakdown of fatalities. Every name is taken12345 04:34, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Now someone has changed the count on the number of teachers killed. At least two sources on THIS PAGE say 14 teachers, 17 people, one of those is BBC news. If anyone else wants to change this please provide a source. Every name is taken12345 23:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

All German media concur that 16 victims excluding the gunman, or 17 including the gunman were killed. Follow the link to the German Wikipedia article ('Deutsch') and note that 16 is the number of victims you will find there. Or count the 16 names on the memorial plaque at http://www.gutenberggymnasium.de/main/gedenken/gedenken.html Tacitus 21:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

So we're just supposed to assume that it was done right on the German Wiki and ignore the English sources? I'm sorry, I don't speak German, but I can tell you that every English source is clearly saying 18 including gunman. How many names they put on the plaque in that picture hardly seems a trustworthy source. -Every name is taken12345 22:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

O.k. first of all you do not need to be rude about not knowing German, since it's your shortcoming not the other person's. Second of all here is a newer english source (the BBC) that has the correct death toll that PubliusTacitus was talking about: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1956206.stm And "every English source" seems to be an exaggeration on your part. It is also probably a good idea to go by the German wiki just because it actually happened there. Imagine some French newspapers talked about what happened at Virginia Tech with incorrect numbers. Wouldn't you go by the English wiki rather than the French one? ...Thought so. Anyways, this is a very sad and complicated story and I think we should all handle it with the respect it deserves. Neutralityisimportant (talk) 06:57, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rainer Heise?

Where does the information on this Rainer Heise, who supposedly stopped the shooting, come from? I've looked through all the sources and the only thing I see is in "How teacher stopped the school slaughter" from The Observer, which says it was a female art teacher who locked him in the room, but does not list either of the quotes on this page. -Every name is taken12345 23:32, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

The Steinhäuser and Heise quotes come from the official report of the commision in charge of the incident. It can be found online here:

http://www.thueringer-allgemeine.de/ta/ta_media/ta.KomGut.pdf

(German only) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.142.214.248 (talk) 06:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Concerning School Laws

In Thuringia Abitur is usually passed after grade 12, so please don't change this to grade 13.

I think this just changed after the Erfurt incident. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember in Bavaria, they just changed it to the so called G-8 (i.e. 8 years instead of 9 in the Gymnasium) about 3 or 4 years ago. Neutralityisimportant (talk) 09:49, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Im most Länder of Germany, the change did happen after the Erfurt school shooting, but I doubt the mayor reasons had to do with it. Nevertheless, Thuringia has had G8 (Abitur after grade 12) ever since (along with Saxony), this hasn't changed with second world war, German reunification or the newly educational “reformation process” (G8) in the rest of Germany. Toscho (talk) 15:57, 3 May 2008 (UTC)