Talk:English language idioms derived from baseball

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The following comments were left by the assessors: (edit ° history ° watch ° refresh)

IMHO this article has shaped up and become what it was evidently intended to be: a glossary of (American) English-language idioms derived from baseball. The addition of numerous illustrations and references has been very valuable. The article should perhaps be renamed so that it has "American English" in the title, or at least that focus might be explicitly mentioned as a header beneath the title.--Mack2 (talk) 21:21, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 12 August, 2005. The result of the discussion was keep.
Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 23 February, 2006. The result of the discussion was No consensus.

Contents

[edit] Categorizing in "Idioms"

May or may not be the right decision but it seems right to me -- feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theman98 (talk • contribs) 16:31, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Out Of The Box

Referring to getting a quick start, as a runner would after hitting the ball. This is different from "outside the box" as in "think outside the box." 76.208.6.63 (talk) 07:24, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Walk

Is "walk -- an acquittal given to a defendant" really a reference to baseball?

I thought it was...this was probably the one I was least certain of. My understanding was that a walk is a "free pass" in baseball, and this is how it came to be used in court. If someone can confirm/disconfirm this for certain, that would be nice. Revolver 01:18, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification please

Is this a list of baseball terms that have transcended baseball or a list of terms that are used both in baseball and in other walks of life? I don't know if terms like the breaks came from baseball necessarily. Charley horse? Unless there's documentation of it being popularized in baseball, I don't think this qualifies a baseball slang either. Surely picnics and other events were rained out before baseball games were. If Jim-dandy refers to a baseball player, it should be noted.

Some of these definitely are baseball terms that are now common in American English, such as step up to the plate, hit a home run, pinch hit, strike out, southpaw, curve ball, etc. Some of these should probably be moved to baseball jargon as they describe terms inside of baseball (whiff may be connected to real life but the connection isn't made in the article. I don't know of any common usage of inning outside of baseball). And some of them, though used in baseball, probably don't originate in it. muff, in jeopardy, lightning delay.

IMO this space should be reserved for terms that originated or became popular in baseball and are now used in everyday life. Sympleko (Συμπλεκω) 10:18, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I thought that was the general idea. Maybe it has veered from the original intent a bit. Wahkeenah 15:40, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, I'm going to shorten this list right now. —Sean κ. + 5 July 2005 15:39 (UTC)
  • Bench clearer -- A physical brawl. Refers to a fight between two teams onfield, in which :the dugouts of both teams are emptied and everyone participates in a free-for-all. Originated from :the semi-annual phenomenon of Boston Red Sox-New York Yankees fights.
  • Big gun -- A dominant player, especially offensively. A "big gun" in baseball is a :powerful hitter with an impressive batting average.
  • Ockham's razor here - "Big Gun" was probably brought into baseball from where big guns started - the Artillery. So it's more properly military-related slang. SigPig 05:06, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Big show (or, just the show, the major leagues, or the majors) -- :competing with others at the highest level of competition within any genre.
  • Break open or break wide open -- When one team goes on a big offensive run, especially :during the middle to latter stages of a tightly contested game.
  • Bush or bush league -- Amateurish, unprofessional or inferior, especially when bias :(toward a sports team, political candidate, etc.) is involved. The term was originally a slang :reference to minor league baseball, with the implication that something was not ready for wide :exposure and competition.
  • I believe this did start as a baseball term; I've heard it a police officer in a news conference use it to refer to a crime as a "bush-league operation" as opposed to a major organized crime racket. SigPig 05:10, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
  • "The bushes" or "the sticks" refers to small-town, i.e. minor league, but further research would be needed to see if it truly originated with baseball. I think the editor here got a little carried away with his chopping, but maybe the article is too broad-based. Wahkeenah 10:00, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Can of corn -- An easy accomplishment; derived from a description for an easy outfield :catch.
  • Catch napping -- To catch off guard. Originally a term for when a pitcher or catcher throws :to an occupied base and puts out a runner who is taking a lead and not paying attention to activity :on the mound. Also "catch leaning" the thrown-out runner can also be said to be cut :down or picked off.
  • Charley horse -- A muscle cramp in the lower leg.
  • Chin music -- A sock on the jaw. Refers to a beanball (see above) or knockdown pitch that :passes close to the batter's jaw. May also come from gangster slang.
  • Clear the bench -- Same as bench clearer (as in, a large brawl).
Also, in a one-sided game whose outcome has been decided, to "clear the bench" means to :remove a game's top players — i.e., starters and top substitutes — from the game and allow reserves :(players perceived to have less ability) to play until the game is officially over. For instance, in :a basketball game where one team is ahead by 30 points with three minutes left in the fourth :quarter, fans may see one or both coaches "clear the bench."
  • Clutch or In the clutch - The ability to do well when the pressure is on, or when it :really counts (e.g. the bottom of the 9th, with bases loaded and two outs, when the team is about to :lose). Refers to the controversial belief in the phenomenon of clutch hitting, an uncharted :variable in baseball for which no reliable statistical formula has yet been devised.
  • Crackerjack -- A really good player or team.
  • Cup of coffee -- A brief or fleeting moment. Reference to having :played only briefly in the Major leagues, as in "He had a cup of coffee a few years back."
  • Cut down —- A degrading, disparaging remark directed at someone or something. Reference to a :player getting thrown out, either via a force play or while attempting to steal a base.
  • Fan -- A strong supporter of a person or organization. Originally a boxing term, those who :followed or "fancied" the sport were called "the fancy"; the term was shortened to "the fans", :adopted into baseball, and reinforced by its apparent connection to the word "fanatic".
  • In jeopardy -- A batter-runner or base runner at risk of being thrown out because a ball is :in play. Probably comes from legal terminology.
  • (The) Inning —- When everything seems to finally be coming together for someone to :succeed at something long desired, only for something to go horribly wrong (especially when the goal :is just about to be realized) and the end result is failure. Refers to a latter inning of a game :when a team is on the verge of a huge victory, but a series of events allows the opponent (who is :behind) to stage a big rally and eventually win, as what happened to the Chicago Cubs in the :eighth inning of Game 6 of the 2003 National League Championship Series vs. the Florida Marlins.
  • Jim-dandy -- Admirable or superior. Kind of a cousin to "Crackerjack".
  • Muff -- To screw up [transitive]; make a big mistake.
  • Pick off -- To shoot and kill someone (an animal or person), especially from a distance; or to intercept something — such as a package or money shipment — often during a crime. Derived from a catcher who throws a baserunner out while trying to steal; or a pitcher/catcher who catches a baserunner taking a lead.
  • Put away or put a team away -- When one team goes on an offensive run, usually during the middle to later stages of a game, to seal the outcome before the game's natural conclusion. In this case, a comeback rally by the losing team is unrealistic.
  • Rained out -- When an outdoor event — sporting or otherwise — is cancelled or postponed to a :later time because of the weather. A rain delay, on the other hand, means a game or event is :stopped because of the weather, with the hopes it will continue later in the day.
Related: lightning delay (when a thunderstorm forces an event to be postponed or cancelled).
  • Rhubarb -- A noisy or heated argument between players or between one or more umpires and :players. Can also refer to a difficult situation for a team to get out of.
  • Score -- Just what the name implies; to earn points toward a possible victory, or to acquire :something valuable, as in "I scored tickets to the concert". In a sexual contest, it means to :succeed in having sex, especially with someone desirable (see "Get to first base").
  • Wait 'til next year -- Expression of hope and nihilism, used especially by fans of a :perpetually losing sports team, especially during the waning stages of a losing season. This phrase :was most notably used by Brooklyn Dodgers fans in the late 1940s and early :1950s until they finally won the 1955 World Series. More recently, it has been used frequently :by Chicago Cubs supporters in reference to their various attempts to succeed since their last :World Series champsionship in 1908, or their last World Series appearance :in 1945.
  • Walk -- An acquittal given to a defendant in a criminal trial. A base on balls, or "walk" :is a "free pass" to first base.
  • Whiffleball, whiff, whiff out -- When a pitcher strikes out a batter because the batter makes poor swings, OR when a batter makes a weak hit that goes straight to the mound.
  • Tinker to Evers to Chance -- An activity that routinely proceeds according to plan. Named for a famous early 20th Century double play combination for the Chicago Cubs.

Is there a page where these terms can possibly be included? IMO these are probably sports-related slang terms that should be in some article in some form. [[Briguy52748 5 July 2005 23:23 (UTC)]]

There already is a page, baseball jargon, that probably has most of them already. —Sean κ. + 6 July 2005 00:47 (UTC)
Sean - Thanks for the reply. I guess I was thinking of something else, as I was already aware of the baseball jargon page, which includes some (but not all) of these terms. As I was thinking about this, I thought perhaps a new article, such as sports slang or something of that effect. After all, there probably are many slang words and terms that are common in sports and in the everyday venacular that aren't restricted just to baseball. [[Briguy52748 6 July 2005 14:33 (UTC)]]

That's an excellent idea. It could also allow for situations where a slang term has been taken from one sport or game and applied to another. "Deuces wild", for example, when there are two on, two out, two balls, two strikes. Wahkeenah 6 July 2005 14:38 (UTC)

[edit] Cover all the bases

I had always understood this to refer to defensive play: a base is covered when the baseman is close enough to tag it easily. If no men are on base, you might use the third (or even second) baseman as an additional outfielder, gambling that the shortstop can cover it. I'll look for a source. Robert A West 18:51, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Truth to tell, I don't recall hearing that term actually used in baseball. It's more like a metaphor that refers to baseball. And, yes, it would refer to the defense. Wahkeenah 19:13, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Sure, you hear the term all the time in baseball. "Matsui throws to third, but no one's covering the base, and the runner advances to home." —Sean κ. + 19:23, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, in that sense. I meant that you would likely never hear anyone playing the game literally say, "You've got to cover all the bases". That's fundamentally obvious. I'm not arguing for taking it out, though. "Cover all the bases" is good baseball-referencing slang. d:) Wahkeenah 19:44, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

ah of course —Sean κ. + 02:38, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] AAAA entry

I brought in the AAAA entry from AAAA. I would now ask whether this is a real slang term in use sufficient to be encyclopedic and or garner a definition entry in Wiktionary ... or might this term have been created locally or by a single person and it not in common usage (though the creator might aspire to establish it as a common term). Thanks for the input, which should be used to determine whether the term remains here, on AAAA and on Wiktionary:AAAA. Courtland 05:28, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I have often heard the local San Diego Padres being referred to (locally) as a AAAA team (usually pronounced "four-A"), or its players as AAAA players, due to the team's history of fielding players who weren't ready to play major league ball, and then trading the same players to other teams where they would develop into stars. The former Montreal Expos, who entered the National League in the same year as the Padres (1969), were the other typical example of a AAAA team. I honestly can't recall whether I've heard it on national broadcasts, but I personally have seen it used in conversations with baseball fans from elsewhere who clearly understood its implications. Disbomber 09:02, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Articles for Deletion debate

This article survived an Articles for Deletion debate. The discussion can be found here. -Splashtalk 22:11, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of term

I have removed the term "utility" from this list and added it to the list of baseball jargon under the name "utility player." I think this term better belongs in that article, as it is a term relating to the game of baseball, and not an idiom derived from the game of baseball. Gujuguy 20:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I have removed "break". I can find no evidence that the word for a stroke of good or ill luck came from baseball. SigPig 04:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Got rid of "swing both ways". Seems it started out with the term "swing", meaning having promiscuous sex - hence, swinging. A person who enjoyed hetero- and homosexual sex swung "both ways". The baseball analogy probably sprung from it, as did the phrase "French door" for the same thing. SigPig 05:25, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Out of your league!

It seems to me that the common phrase that someone/something is "out of your league" must have come from baseball. Maybe somebody knows? It could possibly refer to the different major and minor levels, or to the separate American and National Leagues. Static3d 00:04, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Not necessarily. The British have sports leagues, too, and Oxford's first cite of this term, "She's out of your league, me lad..." comes from a British novel, Cannonball, by John Chamier in 1966[1] SigPig 03:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More edits

Here are some of the edits I just made, and the rationale behind them.

  • rm AAAA; Bye bye baby; Petey - not idioms outside baseball, perhaps slang terms in baseball
  • hid Ride the pine - The slang dictionaries I checked indicate this is a sports slang term, not necessarily originating in baseball; if you can find a cite, unhide it
  • "say it ain't so" add "joe" - clearly needs a cite; however, "say it ain't so, Joe" is used idiomatically, similarly to "I don't think so, Tim". Was "say it ain't so" idiomatic before the Black Sox scandal? SigPig 04:50, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Attention: Slang Glossary policy discussion underway

Slang glossaries violate the following policy:

Wikipedia is not a dictionary

Wikipedia is not a dictionary or a usage or jargon guide. Wikipedia articles are not:

  1. Dictionary definitions. Because Wikipedia is not a dictionary, please do not create an entry merely to define a term. An article should usually begin with a good definition; if you come across an article that is nothing more than a definition, see if there is information you can add that would be appropriate for an encyclopedia. An exception to this rule is for articles about the cultural meanings of individual numbers.
  2. Lists of such definitions. There are, however, disambiguation pages consisting of pointers to other pages; these are used to clarify differing meanings of a word. Wikipedia also includes glossary pages for various specialized fields.
  3. A usage guide or slang and idiom guide. Wikipedia is not in the business of saying how words, idioms, etc. should be used. We aren't teaching people how to talk like a Cockney chimney-sweep. However, it may be important in the context of an encyclopedia article to describe just how a word is used to distinguish among similar, easily confused ideas, as in nation or freedom. In some special cases an article about an essential piece of slang may be appropriate.

Due to the many AfDs which are initiated to enforce this policy and due to the resistance to such deletion by defenders of the glossaries, I have started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not#Slang glossaries to rewrite the policy in order to solve this problem and to readdress this question: should slang glossaries by allowed on Wikipedia? --List Expert 23:13, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the article is not a slang glossary. Many if not most of these expressions are idiomatic English. It is not a prescriptive guide, but a descriptive one of the origins of idiomatic English phrases. To that end I'd like to move it to "List of baseball idioms", or List of idioms derived from baseball" or somesuch. I'd like to hear some input on that. --SigPig 20:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
No input, so...WP:BOLD. --SigPig 03:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] bicth

What is a rubber stamp game?

[edit] Going, going, gone!

Surely this one's from auctioneering, not from baseball? This phrase must have been part of the English language long before it was used in baseball. — Paul G 14:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

You are probably correct; RH specifically gives as meaning 12:

"12. to be sold: I have a bid of two dollars. Going! Going! Gone!"

I'm removing it. -- SigPig |SEND - OVER 18:20, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Out of options"

Does this come from baseball player dealings, or did baseball take this from the idiom? 151.197.179.177 03:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Out of left field

In a baseball game, what comes OUT of left field? In many ballfields the hometeam (or both) bullpens are behind the left field fences or along the left field baseline. Who are, traditionally, the zaniest characters in baseball? Relief Pitchers. Speculative but it makes sense. :)

Another speculation is since most pitchers are right handed, balls approaching the plate do tend to come from the left side of the infield from the batters POV. And a pitched ball that suddenly crossed the plate unexpectedly might seem to "come out of left field". I think this may actually be the true derivation, perhaps reinforced with the location of the bullpen. Fastballs in particular sometimes seem to disappear and reappear suddenly.

Other notes:

"Catbird seat" -- I'm pretty sure was a ruralism before being a baseball term. Catbirds eat insects and during farmwork, they would frequently perch on the head or rump of the horse to watch for insects disturbed by movement. Catbirds have a reddish patch of feathers under their tail. While perching in their preferred spot, they would frequently flash that red patch at the farmer before diving on some hapless grasshopper. A very saucy bird. Other insect-eating small birds do this too but the catbird is more memorable and seems "saucier" because of the red flash from its tail. :) Catbirds, BTW, do not sing from high perches like mockingbirds, instead they tend to hide in bushes before uttering their catlike growls and ducklike rattles.

"Rhubarb" is another probable ruralism. Long before I heard rhubarb used in the baseball meaning, I had heard "rub-up" used by country folk to mean "minor altercation probably involving physical threats" and "to rub-up against someone" as "being deliberately or obtusely provocative or annoying". I can't find a single citation, though. Rhubarb seems a likely elaboration or mishearing of this. Halfelven 06:52, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Transwiki complete

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--Connel MacKenzie - wikt 01:41, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, almost. We appear to have lost "See also 'A swing and a miss'" from the striking out section. In both versions. VonBlade 19:35, 23 July 2007 (UTC)