Talk:English cadence (music)

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I don't have the software to do it - but this article would benefit hugely from a notated example. Barnabypage 08:03, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Seconded. I know what all the words in the article mean, but it's still difficult to conceptualize. A visual aid would help immensely, if I do say so myself. Adso de Fimnu 04:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources!

Nice article, but, hey, where's the bibliography, where are the cross-references to websites supporting the theories given here? Ogg 08:18, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll resurrect myself briefly to add an unsourced statements tag; if anyone disagrees with me, feel free to remove it. I may not return for some time.--Dark Green 22:03, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting little article, but...

... there are more problems than just the lack of citations (which does need fixing):

  • Is a key signature for A major assumed in the example, or not? There is contradictory evidence in the score itself, and in this note: "(Incidentally, the editor has helpfully put a courtesy accidental on the tenor's G natural, which would not have been present in the original publication. See musica ficta.)" Ficta, schmicta: which notes are sharpened, and which are not? Is the first C sharpened, or just the last, in the manner of a tierce de Picardie? How about the two Fs?
  • The lead has this: "The hallmark of this device is the dissonant minor ninth produced by a split seventh scale degree." Where's the minor ninth? I would have thought an augmented octave was the distinguishing feature (G-G# in the example). [I've now fixed that.– Noetica♬♩ Talk 00:05, 13 June 2007 (UTC)]
  • A general copyediting is in order. I can do this, or someone else. But we need technical details fixed first, I'd say.

– Noetica♬♩ Talk 23:51, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

As the person who added the example, I can answer some of your questions. No, there is no key signature. The alto's C is natural. It is not in A major, and anyway trying to apply the major/minor system to Tallis isn't really valid. This is an internal cadence so it can't really be a Picardy third, but I suppose you could argue that the same mindset is present. The accidentals (other than the parenthesized natural) are in the original. The tenor's G must be natural because of the voice leading between the two F naturals. The reference to musica ficta is bogus.
That said, I must note that I've never heard the term "English cadence"; I just came upon this page and determined from the description that this must be what they're talking about, and it's certainly characteristic of Tudor-era music, so I found an example. —Wahoofive (talk) 04:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
  • "augmented octave produced by a split seventh scale degree" is both confusing and inaccurate. The hallmark of the English cadence is the dissonance produced by the minor seventh (here G) against the major seventh (G#)... but the major 7th can occur above or below the minor, or indeed in the same octave.
Perhaps more examples would help, especially given the confusion over the current one. I'm happy to contribute to an overhaul. Aquae 17:02, 26 September 2007 (UTC)