Talk:English Country Dance

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[edit] Initial comments

Not that it's that important at this point (because this really isn't worth my time), but outside of England this term is not always capitalized (except in titles, headings or as part of proper nouns). Here are some examples of this term being used without capitalization: SF Bay Area Contradances and English Country Dances, The Bay Area Country Dance Society webpage, North Bay Country Dance Society, Estienne's Country Dance Book, Sebastopol English Country Dance, Hudson-Mohawk Traditional Dances, Inc..... The rule is that only terms that are always capitalized in English should be capitalized in wikipedia (except in certain cases, this means only proper nouns, such as names of person or legal entities/concepts). But I have more important things to do other than refixing the capitalization of this article. A redirct exists and for the sake of getting back to work on the wiki, that should be enough (NOTE: a redirect for the uncapitalized name did not exist before and instead of simply making an uncapitalized redirect I moved the article so as not to encourage others to also capitalized pages that really needn't be capitalized). Once again please read wikipedia naming conventions on this issue. --maveric149

I'm glad you have better things to do than refix capitalization. Next, maybe you could work on being less condescending with your suggestions about reading the naming conventions and FDL, both of which I read quite a while ago, thanks. I really liked the bit where you were explaining why you had no interest in fixing things I complained about because you felt insulted, yet you were being extremely insulting at the time. With any luck, you can learn to be less of a jerk.

BTW, there are many phrases which act like proper nouns in English. ``English Country Dance`` is one such phrase. And no, just because it is mentioned by e.e. cummings in a poem does not mean that one instance of finding it uncapitalized means it is not always capitalized. Are you a member of a dance community that uses this phrase? Do you know anything about ECD at all? You sure sound authoritative when you discuss how it should be capitalized, but I've found that Wikipedia tends to attract folks who think they are authoritative about many things that they aren't.

GregLindahl

I just came across this page and don't wanna involve in your arguments but Greg did have a point here: Some wikipedians (not all, maybe 30% I guess) think they are authoritative about many things that they aren't. An example: I wrote a page about Wu Hu's ravage of China and some guys in Huns just borrowed the term without really knowing what exactly it is. I'm confident I know the stuff because I am researching on it. By the way, is there anywhere to find out who that guy(s) is? The history only says automated convertion which means.... ?

Ktsquare

The automated conversion destroyed previous history. GregLindahl

Are you a member of a dance community that uses this phrase? Do you know anything about ECD at all?

No, thank goodness. I deferred to the above dance schools and societies for capitalization examples. --maveric149

Ah, well, I'm glad that makes you enough of an authority to both (1) change the capitalization in the first place, and (2) get really upset when someone asked you about it. Now (1) wasn't so bad, but (2) wasn't very nice. GregLindahl

This talk thread is no longer relevant to the article. --maveric

[edit] Explanation of changes I made

The following terms are (at least in our part of the UK) Scottish dance terms:

Three hands across - two dancers join right or left hands. Third dancer places right or left hand on top. Dancers move in the direction they face. Right & left - like the circular hey, but dancers give hands as they pass (handing hey).

We use the term Three hands Star for Three hands across and Changes (starting right or left) for Right & left. I've added them to the article as an alternative (new entry for changes and 'or three hand star') without deleting in case these terms are used elsewhere. Feel free to do as you see fit as its no big deal. -- John Douglas [at] interfolk [dot] co [dot] uk

[edit] Earliest sources and documentation

In the introductory sentence for this version as of Septeber 7, 2006, the claim is

English Country Dance, sometimes abbreviated ECD, is a form of folk dance. It is a social dance form, which dates from the late sixteenth century.

Now, it cannot be the case that the fully developed courtly dances that were documented in the 1500s are the origin of the English dance form. So, I say that the claim is too strong that this form "dates from the late sixteenth century." It's true enough that it was danced then. But implied with "dates from" is a meaning of "originated." Is there not even one iota of documentation for the existence of this dance form before then?Yellowdesk 17:33, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

ECD is perhaps a descendant of Italian set dances. The first references to "Country Dance" are in the late sixteenth century. The only earlier English documents describing dance are various bassa dance manuscripts (not at all like country dance) and the "Gresley Manuscript" (1500) which describes dances similar to 15th century Italian dances. So yes, the article is accurate as it stands. BTW, I don't buy your "originated" wording, when I see "dates" I think "the date we first find it mentioned..." Greg 07:07, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Angloise

What's an Angloise? Any English Country Dance or a specific type of one? Does it deserve mention here? DavidRF (talk) 23:48, 13 December 2007 (UTC)