Talk:Engagement ring

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[edit] "Vein of Love" Confliction

The vein of love background on the engagement ring page conflicts with that of this engagement page. This page claims the Egyptians started it, while the other page claims a Roman origin.--Elysianfields 17:41, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

The point is moot. Wherever it started, it happened so long ago it's more of a legend than provable fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.179.22.36 (talk) 20:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] When a ring is given

"By modern convention, the ring is usually presented as a betrothal gift by a man to his prospective bride while or directly after she accepts his marriage proposal."

I'm told it's only on television that they tend to hand over rings there and then.

If they did it in real life, then surely that would mean you're meant to measure her finger, buy the ring and then propose, at the risk of having wasted your money if she refuses (and it doesn't fit whomever you end up getting engaged to instead).

But the measuring must be a giveaway, so why not propose then? It would make more sense.... -- Smjg 09:00, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It is done in real life a lot, although I agree that in some cases it makes more sense to propose first and then get the ring. However, many people--men and women--actually know their ring sizes because they wear rings at other times. And many people know their partners' tastes in jewelery--might in fact have gone shopping together for "if someday I were to become engaged, that's the sort of ring that appeals to me--" (one might argue that if a couple really knows each oether well enough to get married that they ought to know something about each other's tastes and preferences). Also, most, if not all, jewelery stores will exchange a ring that's brought back after it's presented if the size and/or style and/or stone aren't the right ones. Elf | Talk 16:19, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)


I see. But if she declines, would they give a refund? Or will it remain exchangeable indefinitely for when you finally get engaged to someone several years later? -- Smjg 14:47, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Blue Nile has a 30 day return policy if your not satisfied. I don't know if this is typical. My girlfriend had her finger measured and told me her ring size months ago. I think it depends on the couple. I know one couple that picked out the ring together, but the man still kept the proposal date a surprise. (this doesn't make sense to me.) I've also read about tricks to get the girl's ring size without her knowing. For example, use one of her rings to make an impression on a bar of soap. --BrianG5 16:50, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Part of the romantic fantasy of proposing is in having the ring with you to seal the deal, although it's not done all the time. Some people make the ring the center of the proposal--e.g. hide or place the ring where the recipient will come across it unexpectedly, although this sometimes backfires. Just read or heard about someone who put it into a specially made dark chocolate treat, but the recipient exchanged the treat at the store for milk chocolate and the ring was never seen again. One of our friends had the waiter at the restaurant deposit it in his girlfriend's after-dinner coffee, and he had a very long wait while she dawdled over the coffee and almost decided not to drink it--but at least the guy knew where the ring was the whole time. (My first fiance presented me with the ring at his proposal--but we had talked about "what if--" for a very long time, so he knew what I liked. My second engagement, the rings for both of us came later.) Elf | Talk 16:19, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Western tradition

This article says "Western" tradition has the ring worn on the ring finger of the left hand. Last time I checked, Germany and Spain are both major Western countries, but the ring is worn on the right hand in those countries, amongst others. I think this article should be changed to reflect that while the finger is the same - the last one before the pinkie - that it varies from country to country.Elysistrata 03:38, 23 March 2007 (UTC)


I have removed the following sentence from the article. For example, Judith Sheindlin, TV's Judge Judy, holds that an engagement ring is 'a gift given in contemplation of marriage' and must therefore be returned if the contract is broken. This is a poor example in the legal context, as Judge Judy is not a real court, and decisions binding because of the contract people sign to appear on the show, not because of preset claims laws. --ORBIT 19:29, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I have fixed a missing word 'day' and a few typos.

[edit] Contributions deleted

Why is my contributions to this webpage not being credited to me? I am the owner of Adylon Diamonds and Bridal Jewelry. I have given my interpretation of the origin of the engagement ring based on my research! I would like my contributions to be included, and credited to me like many others have done. This is how the Wikipedia is supposed to work! Please let me know why my contributions are being deleted! Thank you.

If you check the guidelines at Wikipedia:External links and Wikipedia:Spam you will see that we discourage people adding any links to their own web site (if it is really useful another editor will probably add the link at some time). We also particularly discourage linking to commercial or advertising supporting sites. That's the way Wikipedia works. -- Solipsist 19:13, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Wikinazis routinely delete anything they don't agree with for their own personal reasons. If this were truly "The People's Encyclopedia" nothing would be deleted, ever! and readers would be free to make up their own minds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.179.22.36 (talk) 20:16, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arguments about cultural value > actual value

What does everyone think about the idea of many women demanding thousands of dollars to be spent on a piece of jewelry, which is essentially a form of "buying a bride?" I wonder if we should have a heavily NPOV section of this article that discusses these issues. JHMM13 (T | C) 05:23, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


A woman that would be bought probably won't be bought exclusively by the engagement ring. If I on my paltry income save up and buy a 10 thousand dollar ring, she would still presumably know about my paltry income.

The article already addresses that the engagement ring can be seen as an icon for the status of a man's financial well being and stability; I'm not sure that it needs more than that. Including an additional section, I think, would therefore be POV no matter how you slice it.

I still don't see the connection of why men have to spend several thousands of dollars. And still more why women feel they can keep the ring if the marriage never goes through. (To me it sounds greedy). In the past I may have understood that the ring was a symbol of the man's financial stability. And this may have been important back when it was mostly a mono-income family. But in todays age its different both individuals work and contribute to the income of the home. There is no need for any woman to expect a man to drop this kind of money just to show devoution. That money could be better placed for purchasing a house, car, or furniture for their new lives. Maybe its just me but if its supposed to be a union it shouldn't be about the ring, it should be about the emotional connection between the individuals involved.

Shouldn't there be something about how tradition is that an engagement should cost the equivalent of two months' salary of the buyer? I'm not saying it's right, but that's the standard.Elysistrata 03:35, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I have been told by people in the gem business, but can't cite sources, that the reason engagement rings are supposed to be expensive is due to a De Beers campaign. Apparently, traditionally both the man and woman would go to purchase an engagement ring, and the woman woldn't let the man spend an extraordinary amount of money (women being more fiscally sensible). So De Beers introduced the concept of 'popping the question' with a ring, as a suprise. The concept was further backed up by an ad campaign where two men are examining an engagement ring that one of them has just bought. "How much did it cost?" "Oh, only two month's salary," or some such. In Japan it's three months or so. This was a twin-pronged approach through populoar culture (films) and classic advertising and has been accepted as a part of mainstream culture. --Chuckygobyebye 16:49, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I have been led to understand that the expected financial outlay for a ring also has to do with the fact that a hundred years ago or so (and more), when a woman's virginity at marriage was considered more of a big deal, couples would commonly have sex before marriage but after the engagement. Having the man shell out for an expensive ring was a way to demonstrate that he was truly serious about the proposal, and also left the woman with something of value if he later broke off the engagement and left her as unmarriageable "damaged goods." Perhaps someone could do a little more research into this and update the article if they can find a good source for it? 63.251.53.131 05:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)Alex

[edit] Statistics

"In the US, men purchase around 200 engagement and wedding rings each day. Nationally, over 5,000 marriage proposals occur per year. However the international per capita marriage rate is much lower than in the US." Is there a source for these statistics? Considering that the US has over 2 million marriages per year (source) common sense suggests that at least a few thousand rings are sold each day and at least a million proposals were made each year. So I'll remove the above paragraph until it's backed up with a source Mako 01:13, 6 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Titanium Rings

Titanium rings have largely been discredited as a hazard in an emergency. A hospital does have the tools to remove these types of rings. The tools used are the same as removing any other ring. The difference is a titanium ring cannot be soldered back together. Sorry, I'm hesitant to try and change the entry directly- I'm not *really* sure what I'm doing. Perhaps someone else would be so kind as to make the correction?

[edit] Divorce

Does anyone know if it's this, or the wedding ring, or neither, that's given back in divorce. I've just seen it in a Judge Judy episode, so wasn't sure. Thanks. Tristanb 10:03, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

When my parents got divorced my mom kept both rings. While the divorce wasn't ugly, my dad is a lawyer and presumably would have asked for them back if he was entitled to them. So no, I don't think they're ever given back after marriage. Except on TV shows. 195.80.210.47 16:47, 27 January 2007 (UTC)Peter

Although the above comments are older, I thought I'd post here in talk a link that lays out the law. It's not appropriate for the article, but it lays out the facts pretty well for the questions asked here. http://www.divorcesource.com/research/dl/division/94apr78.shtml At least for as long as the link survives.. This fickle web.. Basically - he gives her a ring in engagement. She leaves him before the wedding, he gets it back. He leaves her before, she keeps it. After marriage, it's her property. In no-fault the first two are different. Read the linked page for a fuller explanation. If any find this inappropriate, fine, delete. Just thought it clarifies pretty well...Jjdon (talk) 22:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Globalize

This article is not accurate for all Parts of the world. wedding ring is much better in this aspect, and from what I see it is still marked for globalizing. ntg_sf 22 July 2007

[edit] Alternatives

I would like to see a section of this article discussing alternatives to traditional diamond engagement rings. In the recent public awareness of the nature of blood diamonds, more and more couples are choosing other types of stones, diamond simulants, or smaller diamonds that come from non-conflict areas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamison192 (talk • contribs) 00:04, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Left or Right

My German lecturers wear their wedding rings on the third finger of the right hand despite being right handed, I'm left handed, so if I get married, I'd most probably wear it on my right hand anyways, but is the hand where the rings are worn less important than which finger it was worn? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimHowardII (talk • contribs) 08:56, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] International

Methinks its time to remove the tag - engagement rings, particularly diamond ones, are very much a western marketing invention by de Beers & Ayers. So to put an asian/african/middle eastern spin on it would be either meaningless or legitimize the whole marketing concept....Thoughts?Bridesmill 05:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trading up

I just removed a section on "trading up" rings that seemed quite normative and very much like it was pushing a new marketing technique rather than documenting a widely accepted practice. Before restoring it would be good to get a source from a sociology study or the like that could cover how established a practice this actually is. -- SiobhanHansa 15:37, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Price

I believe the following sentence has been mistyped: "A conventional buying price ranging from two weeks to three months wages for a ring guideline originated from De Beers marketing materials...." In context with the rest of the paragraph which talks about the "'two months salary' guideline," and other sites' research which also talk about a two month guideline, the "two weeks" guideline doesn't appear to belong. I won't change it because I'm unsure, but I believe the sentence should read, "...two to three months wages...." 05 December 2007

Just a pedantic note, it should be weeks' or months', with an apostrophe, because it's possessive. 91.107.169.128 (talk) 19:41, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Additional info related to buying diamond engagement rings

We have an article on our consumer advocate site about buying diamond engagement rings and scams to avoid. An uneducated consumer is often a sitting duck to unscrupulous salespeople, and may also buy the wrong diamond if they lack the education to protect themselves. Our article tells you everything you need to know to be educated and make a smart acquisition. Our article is located at http://www.bridaltips.com/diamond.htm

I know Wiki does not like people linking to their own sites, so they ask us to bring it up here in the talk channel to encourage editors to add it if they choose to.

I invite the editors to take a look at our invaluable resource and if it meets your guidelines, you may link to this article as part of the reference section along with the links you have their to other online resources.

Thanks,

Jeff Ostroff —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.35.113.171 (talk) 19:56, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Men's engagement rings

Would like to hear more about men's engagement rings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.239.174.74 (talk) 01:16, 13 May 2008 (UTC)