Talk:Emperor Penguin

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Featured article star Emperor Penguin is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do.
To-do list for Emperor Penguin: edit · history · watch · refresh

Here are some tasks you can do:
  • Cleanup:
    • Height and weight measurements need to be verified and cleaned up, as they are currently contradictory in the article between the first paragraph and the physical description section. Jstade 08:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
    • There seems to be some dispute between published literature (Williams, The Penguins, 1995) and The March of the Penguins movie regarding whether Emperor Penguins are monogamous or serially monogamous. If this is a recent change in scientific opinion, should it be cited? Williams is a monograph so I'll follow that. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Throughout the article, there seems to be a lean towards facts given in the movie rather than others cited online, such as age before first mating (5 in the movie, 3 in other places online) Jstade 08:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC) Sorted. 3 is the earliest biological age, though this is often delayed by 1-3 years. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
    Removed Further reading Section
    • Deguine, Jean-Claude. 1974. Emperor Penguin: Bird of the Antarctic. The Stephen Greene Press, Vermont.
    • Rivolier, Jean. 1956. Emperor Penguins. Elek Books, London.
    • National Geographic CritterCAM additional feature on DVD version of March of the Penguins
    • Willy Puchner, Penguins - Traveling the World
    Removed cultural refs which I haven't been able to cite
    • The NHL's Pittsburgh Penguins franchise is named after the Emperor Penguin, and an Emperor Penguin leads the team onto the ice each year prior to the start of the first home game of the season. Additionally, the mascot of Youngstown State University (Pete Penguin) is also an Emperor Penguin.
    Removed these two - can't find where they came from for now. Should be readded once refs turn up
    • although they can achieve up to 19 km/h (12 mph) in short bursts.
    • The Emperor Penguin may also blow bubbles into the cracks in the ice to drive out the hiding fish.

Contents

[edit] Unsorted comments

David Attenborough first discussed the emporer penguins' breeding habits in specific in Episode 2 (Frozen Worlds) of th 1984 BBC documentary The_Living_Planet. That makes 3 references. Erikswedberg (talk) 05:41, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Why do they travel so far inland to raise their young? -Drue 17:11, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

My understanding from watching March_of_the_Penguins is that they walk all the way to where the ice is the thickest and will not melt with the onset of summer. I remember it being mentioned in the narration that during the summer the ocean is within a few hundred yards of their nesting area. --Chipmunk 03:36, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Is it the male or the male and female that have a brood pouch?

According to "March of the Penguins", both the male and the female have a pouch. The egg will be passed from the female (shortly after it is hatched (laid, surely!) ) to the male (who will incubate it). The chick will then live in the brood pouch of the male until the female returns with food. The chick will then be transfered to the female.
That movie also asserts that Emperor Penguins mate once a season but each year their mate may change, contradicting the "penguins mate for life" notion. Maybe it's just a movie, but I'm curious who is correct. --feitclub July 5, 2005 21:49 (UTC)
The research article "Why do aptenodytes penguins have high divorce rates?" indicates that only a small proportion of emperor penguins return to the same mate as last year. 68.164.110.144

People think that if you want to you can...

There are various vulgarities and such plaguing the article that I am unable to remove via the edit.

[edit] Baby penguin image removed

The article originally contained this image from the movie March of the Penguins. I removed it as a copyvio. Using that image to illustrate an article about the movie is fair use but using it in this article is not. — mendel ☎ 04:40, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lifespan and lifestyle

The March of the Penguins article says that penguins come of breeding age at 5 years old. How long do they live? And what's the annual cycle of the chicks till they turn 5? - Gyan 02:15:57, 2005-09-10 (UTC)

[edit] How tall is the Emperor Penguin?

At the beggining it says "between 1.27 and 1.6m", but in Physical Characteristics it says "adults average 0.75m"

Additionally, www.emperor-penguin.com lists their height as "about 115cm".

1.6m? Likes like close to 5 ft 3 in. Thats taller than my mum! Something is not right, these guys can't grow to be that huge.

There is a diffrence in what the "penguins" on one hand and "emperor penguin" on the other states how tall these creatures are. One states that penguins average at 1.1m and the other 1.3m. I am more inclined to believe 1.1 but am unsure of how large they average


I looked around at sites, and 1.15m is usually what they state as the average height of an emperor penguin -isionous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.83.59.134 (talk) 19:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC) Penguins start breeding at the age of 7... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Azza95 (talk • contribs) 06:18, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] English units

I added English units to various parts of the article. I'm not a big fan of the antiquated system of measurement, but the fact is that a large part of the English-speaking world understands "1 pound" much better than "450 grams." (Besides which: where does the suspiciously non-round "450 grams" number for the egg weight come from? I bet someone read that the egg was a pound and thus translated it into 450 g.)--RattBoy 15:44, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with this. The majority of the world now uses the metric system, including much of the English speaking world. There are only three holdout countries left on the entire planet: United States of America, Liberia, and Myanmar.[1] Although I am from the United States myself, I have no problem with metric units. I believe your ashttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Emperor_Penguin&action=edit&section=5

Editing Talk:Emperor Penguin (section) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediasertion that "a large part" of English speakers can't understand what 450 g means, is incorrect. The article also looks awkward with every unit of measure (weight of penguin, height of penguin, etc.) having both kinds of units. =Axlq 16:27, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with Axlq. While most of what he said is true, wouldn't it look more...I don't know, polictly correct with both? Not sure how to say it, but it would just be better with both in my opinion. Not everyone in america knows the metric system. I still don't get it, and I'm 13. =Dragonryth

I'm from the US also and although I know what the metric system is and how it works, and I can visualize how long a cm or a m would be (and I'd rather use them since I have a thing against fractions), I'd have trouble telling you just how "hot" 28 C is, or how "heavy" 76 kg is. I don't think having the English equivalent units there detracts from the article. Though it would be nice if there was some way to incorporate automatic conversion directly into Wikipedia or the article. Where if you clicked on a unit a box would pop up with the conversion. --Chiklit 17:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree completely with Axlq. Also I feel that I should point out that a large percentage of english wikipedia users are non-native english speakers and are completely unfamiliar with English units, Imperial units or United States customary units85.220.23.200 21:00, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Breeding Site

Is there a single breeding site for the whole Emperor Penguin population every year, or many?

That's what I wondered - in fact it's why I came to the wikipedia article. From the narration of the film it would seem there's only one, but as there are supposed to be between 150,000-200,000 breeding pairs (and nowhere near that many in the film) I'm guessing there are many sites. sheridan 05:16, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
The linked Emperor Penguin website says "Over forty colonies are known, ranging in size from less than 200 pairs in the Dion Islands to over 50,000 pairs on Coulman Island." Perhaps this fact should be reflected somewhere in the article.--RattBoy 23:14, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

THANK YOU

The MotP DVD has extra features including a "making of" (which features a couple of French film crew on the ice for most of a year, filming the penguins near the Dumont d'Urville permanent research station) and a National Geographic "Critter Camera" feature on filming diving penguins near the US McMurdo research station. The two locations are about 1000 miles (1600km for RattBoy) apart. It's not clear if the underwater footage in the main MotP film is from the French or the NatGeog teams - I'd suspect the latter, because 2 people is a small team for filming underwater in the tropics, let alone on Antarctic pack ice.
I added a "see also" for the features on the DVD - but as noted below, there are probably ink-on-paper articles from the same source which would be better citations.

[edit] Antarctic breeding

"It is the only penguin that breeds during the winter in Antarctica." What about the King Penguin? GrahamBould 12:45, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Good question. According to our article at King Penguin, it lives (and presumably breeds) on subantarctic islands and temperate islands. I can't find anywhere where we currently list the subantarctic islands, or otherwise define what makes an island subantarctic rather than antarctic, but I think the point the article is making is that only the Emperor Penguin winters and breeds on mainland Antarctica, and it may well be that no other penguin breeds anywhere in Antarctica, mainland or not. Mind you, the sea ice shelf is only land of any sort by a fairly loose definition.
Some clarification would be good of many points here. Andrewa 20:18, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Antarctica is defined as the land mass and islands south of 60 degrees south. King Penguins do not breed in Antarctica according to this definition; their main breeding grounds are the various sub-Antarctic Islands, the largest of which is South Georgia. There is no universally accepted definition of the term sub-Antarctic; it is somewhat subjective, and depends to some extent on the local climate and perceptions in the nations that have sovereignty over these islands. For example, New Zealand regards the Antipodes Islands as sub-Antarctic; they are actually further from the South Pole than Great Britain is from the North Pole, and no-one calls us sub-Arctic! --APRCooper (talk) 09:10, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Diving behavior

The information on the diving behavior appears to come from one of the National Geographic's additional features on the March of the Penguins DVD. It's under the title of "Crittercam: Emperor Penguin". Probably there was a ink-on-paper article based on the same work. 83.104.55.73 21:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed cite needed

After some difficulty finding it, I've removed a citation needed tag from the following paragraph:

These penguins can dive 150 to 250 meters (490-820 feet) into the Southern Ocean. They can venture deeper, the deepest diving on record being 565 m (1870 ft). The longest they can hold their breath when underwater is 20 minutes. Their swimming speed is 6 km to 9 km per hour (4-6 mph), but they can achieve up to 19 km per hour (12 mph) in short bursts. One of their feeding strategies is to dive to about 50 meters, where they can easily spot sub-ice fish Pagothenia borchgrevinki swimming against the under surface of the sea-ice, which they then catch, dive again and repeat the sequence about half a dozen times before surfacing to breathe.

This information is supported by the Crittercam short included with the March of the Penguins DVD, which was already listed under Further reading.

If anyone wants to make it a specific citation, feel free. But it would be a bit out of place IMO. Most of the information in the article doesn't have explicit references at this level. Some articles in Wikipedia do have an explicit reference for every factoid, and I think it looks appalling! Most do not. Other encyclopedias do not. But anway, that's a citation if anyone wants to include it, and the justification for removing the cite needed tag. It removes this excellent article from Category:Articles with unsourced statements, where it was a bit out of place. Andrewa 20:50, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Taller than 2ft.

4ft is what they really are.

-G

No way are they that tall, more like 1m which is only 3ft. Where did this height come from? Mtpaley 20:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Breeding temperature.

This is obviously an error, but I don't know which temperature is correct...

In March or April, the penguins start courtship,where they go to court and get married when the temperature can be as low as -40 °C (-40 °F) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Luv tomato (talk • contribs) 18:16, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

Not a mistake. -40 C = -40 F. -39 C = -38.2 F and -41 C = -41.8 F. But at -40 they are exactly the same. Taltamir 02:15, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

very good infomation #1 Site Wikipedia!!!

The Encarta Encyclopedia states that the emperors incubate their eggs at temperatures that reach -60 C. Isn't that more important, if we want to emphasize the extreme conditions they face. Nazroon 05:37, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
No, we don't want to emphasize anything; we want to display information witjout stressing anything. But something like -40° to -60° would be acceptable and worth mentioning.91.15.235.254 (talk) 13:37, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Change in Conservation status?

I just read this article, and i think its no longer "least concern", although im not sure what it is now, is it EN for endangered? http://www.enn.com/net.html?id=2035

Polygon 18:32, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Conservation update

Yeah, I was just wondering why the conservation status was changed

back to what it was before? I 'fixed' it before I registered officially, and I checked my sources. I even left a link where it was supposed to be. Why was it changed back?


BuffaloWilder 05:07, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Emperor Penguin collab for Jan/Feb 2008 with 3 votes

Nominated November 7, 2007;

Support:

  1. Rufous-crowned Sparrow 00:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  2. Corvus coronoides talk 15:29, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
  3. Jimfbleak (talk) 07:02, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Comments:

  • This is a very well-known bird species, so quite a few people will read this article's page. It has a fascinating life history and has been documented in a few movies (something called March of the Penguins). This would be the first Antartic species collaborated on and (if it passes) could be the first Antartic GA/FA. Highly interesting, well-known bird and it is a penguin. What more could it be? Rufous-crowned Sparrow 00:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Can't face passerine yet, and this one doesn't occur in Oz (: Jimfbleak (talk) 07:02, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Aawwww...Australian Antarctic Territory :) ?
An interesting image for the collaboration; [2], the website has lots of US gov PD images. Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Repeating itself

The article currently repeats itself about the huddling to keep warm, mentioned in both behavio(u)r and breeding. Sabine's Sunbird talk 03:05, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Repeating itself

The article currently repeats itself about the huddling to keep warm, mentioned in both behavio(u)r and breeding. Sabine's Sunbird talk 03:05, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The only solution is to change one of the mentions to say that they don't huddle to keep warm. Kla’quot (talk | contribs) 06:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I've just been adding some info. There was a large amount of material all over the place which I have begun wading through. We'll get there. Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:28, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pre-review comments

  1. taxobox isn't pink in my browser
    (Me either, and neither is King Penguin)
  2. "coloured" but "gray" whose side are you on (: ?
    (OK, I'll make an executive decision..................English English)
  3. Description - First sentence of is too long. The description refers to juvenile as singular, but chicks as plural, best to be consistent and do all in singular - also "males and females" could be singular
    (duly split. Have I got all the plurals?)
  4. "These dark feathers" - what dark feathers?
    (reworded that whole bit fo flow)
  5. "Survival rate" reads as if it applies to the feathers which are the topic of the previous sentence, and I'm unclear why survival rate is description anyway
    (I thought we generally stuck it in description...I'll clarify and we can figure out where to put it later)
  6. Vocalization - starts "as they" who? drifts between sing and plural again "Its calls are known for using " = "Its calls use"
    (duly singulised)
  7. Adaptation to cold - 40m/s needs us conversion, I'm afraid, is "furthermore" adding anything, still sing/pl wandering
    (duly converted and singulised)
  8. Behavior - but "behaviour" in text, also "defense" - you ozzies are so confused (: Its swimming speed - previous sentence referred to those males
    (singulised and britishised - feel free to britishise any words I have missed)
  9. Diet - appears to be the silverfish searching for prey?
    (reworded)
  10. Predators - does the skua walk very slowly, or is it perhaps a migrant?
    (reworded)
  11. It appears to read as if it is the shell rather than the egg which is a fraction of the mother's body weight
    (swapped sentences to remove amibguity)
  12. Further reading, could be alphabetical, don't like starting with (1997)
    (I am not fond of Further Reading sections and have removed it for the time being. I am not sure which ones expand beyod the scope of the article)

There are some minor things, such as spacing around ref numbers, and I've fixed a few obvious bits. Generally needs a careful read through to check for consistency and logical flow from one sentence to the next. I've not checked references yet, and I'll give the whole thing a second read through when you are ready. Jimfbleak (talk) 07:27, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I've started a copyedit, not finished yet, so you might want to check through before I return later. edit summary Jimfbleak (talk) 11:22, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  1. The study of penguin foraging behaviour was revolutionized in 1971, when American Gerry Kooyman published research having attached automatic dive recording devices to Emperor Penguins. Reads oddly to me
(yeah, I am having trouble with that one - see waht you think now and feel free to tweak)
  1. ref 4 Should the year be linked? also sci name is italicised on web page
(Pesky ref that. Finally found it.)
  1. refs: inconsistent page numbering esp for ranges (p, pp or none) see refs 10, 13,18 for example
(up till now, I had been using p's and pp's in book refs, and no p's for pages in journals. I figured the book refs, especially the ibid-type ones looked a little bare without them. Erm....do you think it still scans ok if all the p's are removed?)
  1. refs: inconsistent use of language icons, eg refs 8, 44, also why (English) for ref 4?
(not me - removed...ok, 3 french refs have french icons, English should have none)
  1. "external links", "further reading" need to be either alphabetical, or made clearer why not
  2. I assume the author really is Robisson? (just checking that it's not a typo)
(Yep. Patrice Robisson is French it looks like)
  1. I really don't like the pdf link in ref 10, why not format normally so that title links to webpage
(there isn't a normal webpage, it is a scanned extract from the book in pdf format. I am not sure how we can make it another sort of link with what is available)
I can't see anything else, so I'll leave you to do the necessary Jimfbleak (talk) 13:13, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Just so you know there has been a change in Wikipedia:Taxobox_usage#Color, pink is gone! Pro bug catcher (talk • contribs). 14:29, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Final tweaks: intro talked about colonies of up to a 1000, actually much bigger. the three fr icon needed spaces before rest of ref. Fixed pdf link in ref 10, easy to get url using "bypass pdf download" in the Firefox pdf download add-on (or have I overlooked something here?) I've fixed these, so let's do it!

[edit] Good Article nomination

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

Jimfbleak (talk) 06:31, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] OK...towards FAC

Right then. input here what everyone feels is required. I took out some cultural refs which I couldn't ref and may be unable to. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

There were a lot of prose/copyright issues with this, and I think it still needs a careful read through, perhaps by a third person - just now I saw a couple of very minor formatting errors. There seem to be surprisingly few journals cited that have a url link, it's a pity if they do not have a usable web presence, but if they don't, they don't. I've no idea what more is needed in terms of content, my world penguin list consists of one species. Are they likely to be affected, directly or indirectly, by the planned by the likely increase in krill fishing? Jimfbleak (talk) 13:37, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Note to self -need to expand on San Diego breeding and exhibits...also if anywhere else...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:20, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
I've noticed that you can't find the second captive site for them. [3] says that it isn't in the US. I'll also finish the copyedit tonight (EST). Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:09, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
The Zurich Zoo had them in 2001 [4] Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:14, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
More evidence!!! [5] Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:28, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Actually some of the photos look like King Penguins, and others list them as such. Need a definitive answer on this...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:55, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Sigh. This from the official site says that they are Kings. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 06:25, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
(deindent) OK, I may have figured it out. This came out a few months after the reference you got saying that they are kept at 2 places. It lists the two as SW- San Diego and SW- Ohio. Since Ohio closed, all of its penguins were moved to other SeaWorlds. I think that the Ohio birds were moved to San Diego, thus leading to the other reference I found saying that San Diego was the only place with them in the US. There are quite a few Kings that people misidentified as Emperors, however. Do you think this is plausible? Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 06:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, browsing through the news articles it appeared as if King Penguins at Edinburgh Zoo, Zurich Zoo and possibly Tokyo Zoo have been mislabelled as Emperors, however teh last may actually have both. Will be good to remember for King Penguin though...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
This article has improved greatly since I did the GA review, and I think it's nearly ready for a shot at FA. The second half of the long opening paragraph of "description" is a string of short sentences, and very choppy, could do with rolling up a bit. Jimfbleak (talk) 06:59, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Agree. Was waiting for RcS and anyone else to have a look and I think I'll nom in the next 24-48 hrs. Feel free to tweak....Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
OK, I just went through and gave it a copyedit. Casliber, make sure that you go through and check that I didn't change the meaning of any sentences. There were a few, most notably Description para. 2 sent. 3, that I wasn't sure about. Also, I added a cite needed tag in the only paragraph without a ref, Behavior's third about swimming speeds. The zoo situation needs to be sorted out as well. Other than that, I think it looks really really good and definately FAable. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:25, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Oh, and there is the minor problem that nowhere in the article is it mentioned that the bird is flightless :) Also, wouldn't you logically think that there would be a slight difference in degrees F between 37.6 C and 38 C (Adaption to cold 2nd para). Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 17:28, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Fixed temp manually, dumped useless convert function Jimfbleak (talk) 18:09, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
also, still have text sandwiched between two pictures, won't do for FA Jimfbleak (talk) 18:12, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Much appreciated guys...flightless (ROFL)....meaning looks not to be altered. Will get ref and trim images. thx for input. easy fixes apart from zoo headache Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:21, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Update:which chick image do I cull?

What do we think guys? Keep the upper one with adults and chicks for size comparison, or ditch it and use the one from further down the article with the two images? I slightly prefer the top one but appreciate different POV Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Keep the top one, the double image is awful; the image of the chicks from McMurdo (actually at seaworld!) has clearly been poorly edited to remove the background and the line drawing isn't of fabulous quality either. is a much better close up of a chick at any rate. Sabine's Sunbird talk 21:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Sabine and much prefer the pic above to either of the doubled image. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 00:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
ref 54 has sci name non-italic - is that correct? Jimfbleak (talk) 05:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Nope, should be italicized.
Note to self to ref later [6]. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:40, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I hate zoo tycoon...

Every time I try to google search words including Emperor Penguin exhibit and Zoo, all these Zoo tycoon pages pop up ......Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:12, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Do an advanced search, and exclude any results that have the word tycoon in it. Sabine's Sunbird talk 19:42, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] disambig

basal needs a disambig Randomblue (talk) 16:33, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Done. Shyamal (talk) 03:39, 4 April 2008 (UTC)