Talk:Emo/Archive 1

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This is an archive of discussion on Talk:Emo_(music)

Contents

Emo as Hardcore

The validity of a lot of the latter day indie rock sounding 'emo' bands is strongly questioned. The term emo is derived from "emotional hardcore", many of these bands are certainly not hardcore, and it could be argued pseudo-emotional especially when compared to some of the classic artists like Rites of Spring, Moss Icon, Navio Forge, Indian Summer, Julia, Current, Shotmaker, Anasarca, Constatine Sankathi, Portraits of Past, Antioch Arrow, and others. While bands such as Taking Back Sunday and Thrice may be considered emo to large numbers of people today, those who took part in the early waves of emo, do not recognize these bands as such. These kind of bands are too distant from the original intent and purpose of emo to retain virtually any of the qualities that were endemic to bands of the early waves of emo.

Emo was about not only sound, but the aesthetic. Emo bands had a peculiar tendency to play live barefoot (often not facing the crowd), and put out records (always vinyl, virtually without exception) that would go out of print (or become nearly impossible to find) almost as soon as they were released. Additionally, emo bands might go into long often poetic diatribes when performing, refuse to play on stages, work to break down the barrier between audience and performer (including objecting to slam dancing and other types of violent moshing), wear beads and/or canvas patches (also black framed glasses), and play free or very low cost all ages shows at houses, vfw halls, cafes, and other random d.i.y. spaces. The anti-commercialism and politicism (often not overt) of the early waves of emo seems to be largely missing from what is often described as contemporary 'emo' today.

I wrote up this section to be added. I would prefer that it goes into the main area, but I just want this to be in the record. The whole piece on emo really misses a good deal of what emo was about, I humbly tried to capture some of what it didn't include.

I saw there are wikipedia entries for hardcore emo and screamo (I don't like this term) so this can probably go into one of those (although I think emo on it's own encapsulates these genres). Many of the bands mentioned as emo in the main 'emo' page are not considered emo by many (accept for industry publications that have little idea of what emo is about). It seems not in the spirit of what I thought Wikipedia is about to deny this information. If you want to have people that know emo look at it before publishing fine. To some extent what I have written here is subjective, but I can tell you I was heavily into the emo scene (mid 90s to early 00s) I know what I'm talking about and I can tell your emo entry has major problems and perhaps even inaccuracies. If you want to get this right you will consider adding this. thanks. User: Morpheus12

  • This appears to be original research and thus can't be incorporated into any Wikipedia article. Tuf-Kat 22:20, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Use of quotes

Throughout the article, emo is used with and without quotes numerously, shouldn't they either be all quoted, or all not quoted...?--Klaser 05:03, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Vote: Without. i say without quotes, quotes shoule be used for other things, if not, italics and bolded. --evesummernight 04:23, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

reply. i think the quoted emo and unquoted emo words represent two different things. unquoted is the genre discribed, and quoted is the word that means emotional or w/e the heck people say it means today.

I concur with the reply, though I don't know that this is done with 100% accuracy. dawhitfield

Emo Fashion and Definition

the emo fashion section is terrible...Xsharksx 3 July 2005 10:27 (UTC)

Whether Weezer is an emo band is debatable; but it is certainly not representative of emo music and does not belong under Essential Records. I've removed it. --cprompt

emo fashion section is WAY wrong. emo fashion is supposed to be ANTI-consumer, not commercialized.

I think it depends on what variety of emo you look at. Hot Topic is pretty commercial and it definitely does emo....dawhitfield

Whether it's supposed to be anti-consumer or not, the fact is it's become a big business. And the description in this article (especially of "fashioncore") is all but identical to the "emo kids" I know. It's also just about the only thing you see when you go to Warped Tour here (Detroit area).

I removed the definitive records. Let the article itself do that. If it becomes necessary to have something similar, there are much better ways to do it. Tuf-Kat

Definitive Records:

Bright Eyes: Fevers and Mirrors
Dag Nasty: Can I Say, Wig out at Denkos.
Embrace: Embrace.
The Get Up Kids: Four Minute Mile, Get Up Kids/Anniversary Split 7".
Heroin: Heroin.
Hot Water Music: Fuel For the Hate Game.
Hüsker Dü: Zen Arcade, New Day Rising.
Indian Summer: Discography, Indian Summer/Embassy Split 7".
Jawbreaker: Unfun, Bivouac.
Jets to Brazil: Orange Rhyming Dictionary
Jimmy Eat World: Static Prevails, Clarity.
Julia: Julia, Julia/Sunshine Split 7".
Lifetime: seveninches.
Mineral: The Power of Failing.
Moss Icon: Lyburnum Wit's End Liberation Fly.
Onesidezero: Is This Room Getting Smaller?
Planes Mistaken For Stars: Planes Mistaken For Stars, Knife in the Marathon.
Rites of Spring: End on End.
Still Life: From Angry Heads with Skyward Eyes.
Sunny Day Real Estate: Diary.
Would you object to an article called "List of definitive emo records"?
--cprompt
Not necessarily... But I think there are better ways to do the same. How about a few paragraphs in the main article which explains why these are definitive. For example, something similar to the following (except better-written). Tuf-Kat
Early recordings in what would later become known as emo include Embrace's Embrace and Hüsker Dü's Zen Arcade. In the late 1990s, emo gained greatly in popularity, with albums like The Get-Up Kids' Something to Write Home About, becoming extremely popular.
Hmm, I could see the value of having such a separate article. I will play around at User:TUF-KAT/List of hip hop albums
While the principle of a list of definitive records may fall flat in genres more defined, I do feel that in a genre as loose and ambiguous as emo, something along the lines of the list would be a great supplement to the page.
-idp
The problem is that a list would be a potentially contentious topic. According to NPOV, the Wikipedia can't take any positions, it can only describe others' positions. I've done something at User:TUF-KAT/List of grunge music albums and User:TUF-KAT/List of hip hop albums. Do you think something along those lines will work for emo? Tuf-Kat

I'm sorry I'm a year late in my response. ;-) Since the page doesn't exist anymore, I'm unable to comment. :-) What I can say is, I agree with your now-ancient removal of the "Definitive records", and that a separate article could of course work, but would be prone to dispute (which doesn't make it any worse than some other articles <g>). --cprompt 02:32, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Funny you should re-bring this up now. I've been retooling an attempt at lists of definitive albums in Wikipedia, accomplished neutrally by combining published lists by professionals (e.g. 100 best rock and roll albums). I had previously done the same, including both professional and amateur lists, but I decided to stick with only professionally done lists. List of hip hop albums and list of rock and roll albums are switched over, but list of grunge albums still includes amateur lists. The same thing could be done for emo, though I'm not sure there are enough such lists to do so. Tuf-Kat 04:33, Apr 22, 2004 (UTC)
The emo list might be more subjective than other lists. The "What the heck is emo anyway?" site provides a good starting point. All in all, I think the lists are fairly useful. (Useful enough for me to use them.)

Hindsight is always 20/20. Maybe we should wait until the "emo trend" is over to have a list of definitive albums. dawhitfield ---

Cleanup

This is an elaboration of my request for cleanup. The first sentence says that emo is short for emocore, but the rest of the article (as well as the Emocore article) seem to disagree. If some fan said "you're emo", how could that be short for emocore? This sentence especially makes no sense: "Just as emo added a new found intensity to the original emocore style, the style of hardcore emo brought the intensity to a climax." ~ Resister 00:06, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Reverting "again"

Again, when was the first time? And what POV? I was talking with someone about Emo, and decided to being up the wiki article. When we discussed that particular edit we were both suprised it had been removed, and he said something like "I don't know much of anything else about emo." He has a good friend who was in a punk band, and which he left when it started to become "emo" and pop-punk, etc... I know loads of people in small hardcore / punk / metal bands, and they all have the same sort of opinion of "whiney pop punk" or whatever. I never presented it as anything other than a perjorative, but its common and noteworthy, fair or not. I also think emo fashion (large hornrimmed black glasses and dyed black hair) deserves more mention in the article. Sam Spade wishes you a merry Christmas! 00:30, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

  • Sorry about the "again" comment. I misread the edit summaries...should have checked. (Basically I took it that the anon that TUF-KAT reverted had inserted the sentence, and that you had re-inserted it. My apologies.) I'm not particularly fond of the wording in that sentence. It irks me, seeing "fag" in a (vaguely) formal encyclopedia. It may be popular opinion, but I'm sure we could express the idea in a less hostile manner. "Fag" is just one of those words that should really be avoided unless its absolutely necessary and in this case I don't think it is. (As for emo fashion, yes, we definitely need a section on emo fashion. I know next to nothing about it aside from the glasses, so I'll leave it be.) PMC 01:10, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • I agree on a section about fashion, but wouldn't know what to put there. As far as the statement about stereotypes go... I probably wouldn't have reverted, but I don't like it and don't think it should be there (in that form). First of all, I doubt the stereotype is all that "common" in the grand scheme of things. The vast majority of people in the world don't know anything about emo, and couldn't care less about the people that listen to it. Even among those who have a stereotype, I tend to think of emotionally fragile, sensitive, weak and shy before fag-like... Of course, to some degree those things are also stereotypes of gays. It would be far better sourced anyway. Surely there's a page or two on the web making fun of emo-kids, perhaps we could describe how they do so and link to it. Tuf-Kat 01:53, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)
      • I don't have time to be thorough right now, but here's two: [1] and [2]. The second one of which also goes into a bit of fashion, coincidentally enough. This google search looks like it might turn up some other sites containing stereotypes of emokids. Tuf-Kat 01:57, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)
        • Mmmkay...I'll have a closer look when it isn't 11 in the evening and I'm not falling asleep on the keyboard. PMC 07:02, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Emo is obscure, but not in the punk rock / hardcore genre, which is the group I was refering to making these comments. You have to understand, your average hardcore music listener/band has alot of differences w your average Emo listener/band, and yet they all go to the same venues (generally on different nights). The end result is that they form opinions. I added that word because I've heard it many times in reference to Emo, but I understand thats original research. I'll see what I can turn up as far as references, but the fact that non-emo punk rock and hardcore fans tend to view the Emo crowd as sentimental, fashion-conscious and non-tough (fag in the usage not specifically refering to homosexuality) isn't disputed here, I hope. Also we need alot more on Emo fashion, which is fairly noteworthy. Sam Spade wishes you a merry Christmas! 11:30, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This is what I was talking about. Its a catch-phrase. Sam Spade wishes you a merry Christmas! 11:34, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
We could do a "subculture/fashion" section, talk about the current emo subculture and its trendiness, fashions, etc...and then have a bit in there about the punk and hardcore crowd's general opinion of them. I'm definitely not disputing the view of emo kids as being "wussy", that's common knowledge. It was a hasty revert on my part and I apologize for that. PMC 23:38, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
As for the catch-phrase, I hang around with a lot of hardcore types and I've never heard that in my entire life. Lots of fantastic descriptive phrases, yes, but never specifically "emo fag". PMC 23:40, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Its not a big deal about the fag thing, and you've been more than gracious enough to dispell any antimosity regarding the revert. i do think we need to incapsul how other, related sub-cultures view emo-kids, and what emo-kids look like. Yhis won't be done by me however. Absolutely everything I know about emo is negative, they arn't well liked by people I have known, and I have only known 1 guy w the emo fashion type. I think there may be a certain amount of defensiveness towards emo w people feeling like emo is "taking over the punk scene", or some such. Certainly there is a tendancy to view emo as more pop-music than punk. Example (talk · contribs) 23:56, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I could do a little...not right away, I'm sort of overloaded with stuff at the moment, but I could take a look around and write at least a little bit of content. PMC 01:27, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Yes, I don't think its a particularly high priority for anybody, I just wanted to accentuate what needed done. Cheers, Example (talk · contribs) 13:00, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Emo Example image?

Does anyone actually feel that image adds anything to the article? It looks like a low quality shot of a bored kid in a classroom, maybe just someone trying to put their pic in the Wikipedia. It certainly isn't a good enough image to inform about emo fashion, is it? Paige 20:19, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Italic textEmo fashion, according to its proponents, is deeply rooted in a "being proud of who you are", anti-consumer subculture. Oh the irony!

~~Here is a good drawing of an emo, but I'm unsure wether or not it is copyrighted. http://neo-anime.org/desfunk/pictures/amychan/orig/emo.jpg

Unless it says you can use it (under the wikipedia acceptable licenses), you cannot use it. -- Refrozen


Soemthing that I noticed wasn't mentioned or must have been incorrectly stated is that Emo is short for "emotional" which is not at all. It is actually short for "emotive hardcore". Unfortunately MTV has made people nowdays think it means emotional to get all the kids to listen to what are actually indie bands such as Dashboard. Most real Emo bands today tend to have more of a metal-core/math-core sound compared to how they sounded when the term "Emo" was coined by other hardcore bands to make fun of emotive-hardcore. This may explain the reason the term "Emo" is thrown around alot. Since many "Emo" bands sound like hardcore/metal-core at first listen many have just lumped them into hardcore which left the term "Emo" ripe to be basically stolen by another genre of music that had actually very little to do with or even influenced by Emo. Many of what non-hardcore listeners think is Emo is really just pop-indie, glorified by MTV. Unfortunately most people will never know the truth.

Emo-fag

We really need to address the level of dislike of the emo community. The perpetual vandalism of this page for example, or the fact that I have never heard the term in any way other than in a perjorative. Most of the times I've heard it, it was coupled w "fag", I shit you not.

Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 20:31, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Have to agree with this, I would also like to see this rewritten again due to the fact I think the neutrality is close to constantly being disputed. Massive imbalance.

--Boochan 12:06, 15 July 2005 (UTC)


Now on the other hand, i am in total disagreence with the current placement of the discussion of the term emo. Any Backers?

evesummernight, 9pm EST, July 15th, 2005

emotional hardcore

Emo is an abbreviation for "emotional hardcore". Not just "emotional" as the article says.

-Okay, look here, emo edit 26 Apr 05. Somebody completely destroyed the emo article and it hasn't been properly restored. They obviously don't know anything about emo, they even changed every reference to 'punk' to 'rock.' The downside to wikipedia. I hadn't been back here for over a month and when I did I was shocked at how much it was changed. Before this change, the emo article was far better. I suggest we restore it to a version sometime around here. Especially the emo glasses pic, and the "emotional hardcore" definition. People can then ADD to it the more modern emo stuff without deleting the excellent summary we had before. C'mon, people, this is shocking. We've let a few kids with bad writing skills destroy this article. SP 27May05

There have been almost 100 edits (albeit a good few of those are vandals/reverts) since the first diff. link you posted, and probably at least that many again since the second link you posted. It seems that it might be better to just rewrite the parts that were wholly changed, using the older version you point to as a guide. Lachatdelarue (talk) 14:31, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

--- This article refers to Jimmy Eat World and The Get Up Kids as power pop. Am I the only one who has a problem with this?

Yes.

Jimmy Eat World and Get Up Kids started at as being labelled "emo" bands because at that time in the post youth-crew hardcore scene, people called anything that wasn't straight up HC "emo". Jimmy Eat World did do a split 7" with Christie Front Drive, who are totally in that twinkly mid-western Sunny Day Real Estate mode. However, they weren't always "emo", if you've heard the 1st Jimmy Eat World cd (pre-Static Prevails), they were a pretty average pop punk band. And post "Clarity", they have started playing an emotive form of pop rock, but i don't know if could quite call it "emo" either, but is it really "power pop"?

"Power Pop" is a tricky term to use because it has been used over the years to describe bands as diverse as The Cars, Cheap Trick, Blondie and The Jam all the way up to Gameface (who self labeled themselves as "O.C. Power Pop" on their 1st 7" - probably an effort to avoid being labeled either pop punk or hardcore although at the time they almost exclusively played hardcore shows).

Get Up Kids first 7"es were released by Contrast records in Rhode Island, which was basically a hardcore label that took a chance on an unknown melodic band. People also called them "emo" at the time as well, but stylistically history has shown they are really more of just a straight up indie pop band. I think they were labelled "emo" at the time purely because of context. Chadski

Context has a lot to do with "genres" of any band. If what-his-face from Dashboard hadn't been in Further Seems Forever first, do you really think his band would be considered emo?? If guys from Shai Hulud and Coalesce hadn't graced the line-up of NFG, do you think anyone would refer to them as emo-CORE! I have at least one other example off the top of my head, but two is good I think. While I'm typing, it's important to note how much 'hardcore' has changed since the early 80s too. This is probably part of the problem in calling current emo emotional hardcore. What hardcore are we refering to? A Bad Brains reggae song that is somehow "hardcore," something from the NYHC scene like Sick of It All or a band like Black Flag (you know, just to throw a third scene in there). I don't mean to hate on the Bad Brains, but not all there songs are hardcore, by any stretch. dawhitfield

I totally agree with you. context is everything. it seems that the closer an "emo" band falls to the hardcore tree, in terms of its roots (ie past members etc), then the more likely they will be branded as an "emo" band as opposed to merely "indie rock/pop". conversely, if a band never has HC roots, then they are always labeled as just "indie rock/pop". who knows what people would label dashboard confessional if there wasn't that HC connection. for example, a band like Jealous Sound (or Knapsack before them) have a very "emo" sound in terms of being that sort of Jimmy Eat World style, but i never heard them once described as "emo", it was always just "indie rock", even though they did ocassionally play shows with bands that had more direct HC connections. on the flip-side, a band like Get Up Kids who had HC connections, but arguably sound just as "indie rock" as knapsack were always branded as "emo". ultimately, as stated in the main wikipedia entry "emo" as a term doesn't really mean that much these days but unfortunately it has been taken by the mainstream and they are running with it. Emo is not alone in this though, similar things have happened with terms in other musical genres as well. Just look up the history of the term "IDM" and you'll see what i mean.

(/flame on) what's even more galling about the underlying HC roots (whether they know it or not) of these faux-emo mtv bands is that it is taking so many things about a sincere underground scene like hardcore and cheapening it thru mindless emulation. much like "moshing" and crowd surfing was taken from HC in the early 90s and lollapalooza-ized, same thing is happening now with everything else on mtv via labels like victory records. (/flame off) chadski

post-hardcore vs emo vs indie rock

august 3rd, 2005

in going along with my post above, and thinking about this more and reading the post-hardcore wikipedia entry, it seems as there is a lot of overlap between the two genres. by definition, every traditional emo band (85-9x) is post-hardcore, in that they are evolving past HC. however, post-hardcore has been a pretty well defined sound, with most bands in the category either following the Fugazi model or the Quicksand model. maybe this should go on the post-hardcore discussion page, but there were bands listed over there that i always considered 100% emo (ie Texas Is The Reason or Elliott), and some bands there i always thought of as indie rock (Jets To Brazil, despite the HC pedigree of certain members - they just didn't have enough of that Quicksand sound for me to call them post-hardcore). good topic for discussion over here as well, as Nation Of Ulysses is listed there as being post-hardcore, but on the NOU page are referred to as indie/emo.

also somewhat tough to define (although i attempted on the main page) is the intersection of pop punk, emo and hardcore in late 80s, early 90s melodic bands like Jawbreaker and Samiam. I remember Jawbreaker in the early 90s initially being described as pop-punk, then mid 90s as indie rock and then somewhere along the line they got tagged with the ol' "emo". same with Samiam, they were always called "pop-punk" in fanzines but in retrospect they have plenty of emo influences as well. chadski

In reference to the Jets to Brazil mention; I mentioned the same thing about a few other bands that get lumped into genres simply due to the members of the band. Since it has come up, I'll mention one other instance. Lead singer of Millencolin Nikola released a solo album that was folk-pop or acoustic rock, or something (let's not get into THAT genre discussion). Anyway, it wasn't punk by just about any stretch and yet Yahoo! put it in punk, presumably because of Nikola. Another example is the Weakerthans (some guy from Prophaghandi is the lead singer of that band), though the Weakerthans album is closer to punk than Nikola's album.Dawhitfield 03:06, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

removal of POV section

Below is a section I removed from the article that an anon had posted. While, it's got some good info (kinda) it's not written encyclopedically (is that a word?) and had a blatently POV title. If someone wants to clean it up and put it back in the article, be bold. Lachatdelarue (talk) 3 July 2005 13:19 (UTC)

Emo is a blatant, shameless thief

Not a lot of people seem to have noticed the fact that the alternative youth subculture of Emo has "borrowed" many elements from punk rockers and Goths. We can analyse the sterotypical "Emo kid" from head to toe and identify the parts that have been stolen from which cultures. The hair, first of all, for males. Many followers of Emo fashion have what has been nicknamed a "scene" haircut. This involves the hair to be cut short and spiked out at the back, but leaving the top and fringe longer to droop forward over the eyes. The hair is usually dyed black.

Now, let us mention three bands here. The Cure, AFI and The Misfits. During the mid-80s, Robert Smith of The Cure had his long hair drooping over his eyes, buthad the back slightly shorter and spiked out. Jerry Only of The Misfits invented a haircut in the late 70s/early 80s known as a "devilock" which involved the hair to be cut short, but leaving the fringe to grow very long and to be combed forward over the eyes Only, guitarist Doyle and former lead singer Glenn Danzig all wore the stlye and dyed their hair black. Most members of The Misfits have sported the style or one similar at one point or another. During the "All Hallows EP" and "The Art of Drowning"-era, AFI frontman Davey Havok used to have a haircut that mixed these two styles together, cutting his hair short by way of the standard hardcore punk shirt and spiky haircut, but left only his immediate fringe to grow long, at least down to his chin. He also dyed his blond hair black from a very young age. Since the appearance of this variation of the devilock, the two have been given names: The Only Devilock and The Havok Devilock. These two, and in particular Havok's variation, are an obvious precursor to what has become known as "scene" hair.

Moving down to the face, black eyeliner and sometimes eyeshadow is applied, regardless of gender. This in itself is a blatant rip off of the early 80s British Goth bands, including The Cure, Bauhaus and Siouxsie & The Banshees. The Misfits' Jerry Only and AFI's Davey Havok and Jade Puget also do this. Also, the tunnel style ear piercings and side of lip ring have been borrowed from Havok again.

what's your point?

Embrace?

I was a bit surprised to noticed that there wasn't any mention of Ian MacKaye's band Embrace anywhere in the article. Almost every other source (including the Embrace and Ian MacKaye Wikipedia articles) recognize Rites of Spring and Embrace as being the first emo bands, or at least the two that got the ball rolling on the emo movement. I think Embrace at least deserves a mention, moreso than Fugazi since Embrace was directly involved in the movement while Fugazi's influence was peripheral.Mouseclicker


Done That... i totally agreed... i attempted to fix some of the history last night, i may clean it up a little bit more... because i thought the 1984-1992 was lacking, especially with geographical detail... all things aside, as much as husker du was an "emo" album, it didn't "start" the emo engine. the DC hardcore scene did... so i edited it. July 15, 2005 -evesummernight

1998 on

Okay, so i see that there needs to be a greater in depth look at bands from 1998 on, underground, above ground, all around, because it's kinda lacking and sucky, imo. am i the only one who feels that way? July 15, 2005

-evesummernight

hi, i recently edited the page and added a lot of stuff to the "revolution summer" era (ie 1985 and on - embrace, rites etc). i would like to add relevant parts from Dance of Days as well since that is more of a direct authority on the subject (including parts on the official origin of the term), but i just haven't gotten around to it. i also added a bunch of info to the 90s section, as i actually am old enough to have lived thru that entire era (88ish to now) AND did a hardcore fanzine from 91 to 2000. i did reviews of all those bands (still have about 90% of all the records), interviewed bands like Lifetime and saw the whole thing progress and develop firsthand. july 29, 2005 -Chadski

male-homoeroticism

There has been alot of fuss about my recent edit @ Wikipedia:Policy_enforcement_log#Sam_Spade. Let me point out that I like the current version by User:Icarus3 better than my own, and agree it is more accurate. Yes, there are non-emo women who find gay men to be great (fag hag comes to mind as another "subculture"). However some have been wanting a citation, and if the article is wanting to suggest this is a widespread fetish (on the level of say... lesbian eroticism), which is the #1 male fantasy) I would certainly want one as well. So, lets leave it how it is, or find a cite, ok? Cheers, ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 03:01, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Hey, what about my version, you didn't say anything about that, huh? You get something against blue fur? Uncle Ed 03:53, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
The previous version had a link to Slash_fiction as an example of other straight women fetishizing gay men. It's not a perfect example, but it's better than no citing at all. How about putting a link to that article back in this one? Icarus 04:13, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

If you can find a way to do it, that would be fine, It was the wording that was a problem, not the link. I know nothing about slash tho, so I don't think I can put it back very well... would you mind? ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 04:22, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

everyone's fighting all over the place... SPEAKING of male-homoeroticism, shamless plug moment to.... http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=404 ... lol... i know very little on the situation... i live in a hole in cornfields... but i do say that there should be SOME mention of this topic somewhere... beecause it's kinda a trend?--Evesummernight 04:25, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

I have to agree, I know of a total of 1 emo couple (a guy and a girl), and they keep hinting (more than hinting actually) that he is bi-curious, and that she thinks thats great, and that she wears the pants, and etc... Thats my only experience w emo whatsoever, so... whatever thats worth. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 04:41, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

I'd think that he'd be wearing the girl pants in the relationship? --Evesummernight 06:47, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Exactly. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 14:07, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

So much for neutrality, eh Sam? Exploding Boy 20:45, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Good edit

Good edit, Icarus3, thanks. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 03:14, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

:-) Thanks. I figured the pics might not have been all that great, but there's no need to lose the links. I'm somewhat confused as to how I ended up watching and occasionally editing this article, seeing as I'm not emo, and have too little familiarity with it to have a strong opinion on it either way. Hey, now I've finally figured out what to put on my user page! Yay! Icarus 04:18, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm certainly not emo either, in fact it was only after reading this article that I discovered an aquintence of mine had been / is one. I probably know more about elmo than emo, but that doesn't make us worse editors, it simply makes us better at neutrality / formatting stuff than bulk content contributions :) I also helped out regarding anti-emo sentiment awhile back, as that had been lacking. Pretty much everything I've ever heard about emo (before reading this article) was from punk rockers and skinheads who hated emo kids passionately ;) Anyways, I agree very much w both the substance of, and the sentiment behind your edit. Glad to see you have a user page too, that red user name makes some people think your too fresh to be trusted ;) Cheers, ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 22:29, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Division of Real Emo and Misnomer Emo

I think the page needs to have a better division between true emo from each era (From Rites of Spring to Antioch Arrow to Rockets And Blue Lights to Saetia to Circle Takes the Square) and the bands that improperly get labelled emo today (Weezer? Who suggested including them?). I think the fact that the fairly in depth emo history and definition sections immediately blend into the emo fashion and haircut and fashioncore BS makes it confusing to discern what is actually emo and what the page sort of labels scene emo. I think the page should really be twofold: Emo Use and Abuse.

I have started editing a timeline of this on this forum I frequent. Feel free to make comments and suggestions about the list as I don't have every emo band ever, nor do I know exactly what time period each belongs in.

http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4344018&postcount=2

Truth in music is a hard road to haul... check out death metal sometime ;) ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 03:49, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Hobbies Section

This section was recently added. I'm not sure if it is of any merit, but even if it is, the quality needs improvement. Cheers!

Sophrosune (talk) 00:15, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Emo Hobbies

Agreed, I was going to work on the capitalization and punctuation, but since it doesn't seem to be the final version, I'll leave it be, seems like much work is needed on it.

Font 03:44, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Some of that info may have legitimate places throughout the article, but lumping it all together as 'hobbies' is ridiculous. Anyone who can figure out a decent way to work in the better parts of that list, and do so in a way that doesn't make it sound like all emo fans fit all of them, is free to do so. But the way it was before was just a big list of stereotypes and generalizations. Icarus 14:26, 29 July 2005 (UTC)