Talk:Emo (slang)/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

== my chemical romance == #REDIRECT emos are gay

in the wikipedia page on emo-slang, it says that my chemical romance are an emo band, but they reject that saying they are rock and violent pop, it says that emo fashion is inspired by them, which is false.


 you have to imagine youth culture a bit like  the pattern of a tree trunk:
there is a center, the pure 100%, fully involved

this invilvement´s fadin more and more towards the outer circles - where i´d put my chemical romance, they might be emo, but the commercialised popularised part (as HIM is for gothic)


elsbelle


Contents

Definiton of Emo - an impossible task, surely?

I really don't see how the term "emo" is ever going to be defined fairly, as too many people seem to feel too strongly on the subject. There does not seem to be enough impartiality over the issue. Granted, there is some validity in the claim that some emos are just looking for attention; however, there is equal truth in the statement that some emos probably do suffer from bipolar or other forms of depression.

Different people like different elements of the emo culture, and so participate in it for completely different reasons - for instance, some girls may become emos because they find male emos attractive, and vice versa; it could be that some boys want to explore their sexuality covertly and believe that the naturally feminine emo "look" gives them the oppurtunity to do so; it may just be that, in a certain school, "emo" is in vogue and therefore people just conform to it for the sake of having friends.

I do not believe this issue can ever be black or white, because there are so many different interpretations and beliefs as to what it means to be emo.

Therefore i believe that all that can be done, here, is for everyone to forget their personal views on the subject and remember that they are here to document and explain as many different kinds of emo as exist, and the general, prevailing trends within the culture. Impartiality should be the watchword, for this project, surely?

--Leowatkins 10:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)


     You are my hero! I totally agree with you, Leowatkins.


thankyou leowatkins i totally agree and all i have to say is those types of things start school shootings such as the one at north pole middle school in north pole alaska. when you label someone it changes them first of all, and second it drives them nuts enough for them to crack, freak out, and kill everyone. thankyou---XxsheronxsyndromexX

LOL

i´d say emo falls under alternative,it´s just the darkish, pathetic, perhaps even more geekish little sister of the alternative juvenile culture? ( i like emos)


what i´m interested in , it seems to me that there is some overlapping with gothic subculture (i thinks it´s not mere coincidence that gothic´s so often mentioned here) i see a lot of kids on the streets now, where you can´t really tell: they seem gothic on a first quick glance, but then there´s too much pink and stripes, sometimes skater shoes or converse and an emo like habitus on them, i find these scene blends very fascinating

elsbelle



I think it's pretty funny how you're all debating over what emo really is. It means a different thing to each person, so it's hard to define. And whatever you say is going to offend someone. =)


-Agreed, and that's why I say that people that describe themselves as "emo" are a bunch of drama-queens.Duckmurderer 05:30, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

---Holy crap! As I read this discussion page, I find myself shaking my head at how important people consider labels - especially the ones the apply to themselves. "EMO is this...!" "EMO is that...!" "I'M 'emo' and you're all so mean!" Get over yourselves. Be a goddamn individual.greenday_rox_557@hotmail.com

i agree with whoever wrote that up there... and all i have to say is emos rock! so shutup all of you!

You guys do know what talk pages are for, right? First of all, please sign your posts by using 4 ~. Second, talk pages aren't for general discussion, they're for talking about possible chamges and additions to the article. Please take this into consideration when editing talk pages or I'll have to start removing pointless comments. Thank you. // Sasuke-kun27 18:44, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

"Emo Slang"

"EMOFAG" is a particularly ongoing and common phrase as an insult. I reckon the article should contain it for reference... 03:59, 6 September 2006 (UTC)03:59, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Second that! Kestrel 19:52, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

"Emotard" & "EmoHomo" are other slang/insults that should be noted.

omg i've used all of those i thirded that ThatOneGuy207.69.136.200 02:41, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Emo Song?

Should the Emo Song be mentioned in this article?Schwarzes Nacht 13:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Definitely! Haha, it should say something like "this is a song about stereotypical emo culture with a background of keyboard demo music" and there should be a link to it. InformationOverload 10:01, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

What is this emo song thingy i would like to hear it please. EMO ROCKS SHUTUP.COM

Complaints

This wiki doesn't really get it. In my opinion its pretty poor that the opening paragraph doesn't mention the cultural stereotype of an 'emo' person, considering that this article is called Emo - slang. Its about being melodramatic and being irrationaly depressed or suicidal for attention.

Yes, that's true. But the people who give this article the most attention want it to flatter themselves. Mentioning the stereotype doesn't fit this scheme, so they emphasise more positive details instead. Although the 'emo' tag does strongly connote this stereotype, emos prefer descriptions of themselves to flatter them. Rintrah 11:41, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Wow, that's genius. We can't have an NPOV article without trashing the crap out of the subject? Visit Goth and see how they've handled it. Articles aren't here to mock or judge. They're here to explain the subject in realistic terms.
And if you care, I wrote a large percentage of what's here, and I'm in no way affiliated with anything that's currently "emo". I'm not trying to "flatter" anything; I'm simply trying to adhere to Wikipedia's guidelines. -- ChrisB 16:57, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I am considered "emo" and people think i'm depressed and bipolar. But I'm not and people just assume. I don't mind if you really think it, but don't go telling people they are "emo fags"... it's just stupid and immature.

what a load of crap, panic! at the disco aren't considered emo --Nickybutt23 06:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

It is my opinion that generally when you call someone emo they take it as a putdown, and it generally used as a putdown. I have never seen anyone ever calling someone emo in a nice way, or anyone take it in a nice way. I see no problem with covering the topic in it's generaly used and accepted form, even it it would seem to be bashing. Look at Jock (subculture). It is a little bit nicer on the subject, but it still covers it in the generally used and accepted way. --LordShard 18:18, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

"emos aren't actually depressed, moreover attention seeking". That's really stereotypical and biased. I'm sure at the very least some "emos" suffer from clinical or bipolar depression.

It may also need to be mentioned that people may act "emo" to attract the opposite sex, espciall young men attempting to attract young women, by appearing to be emotional or depressed, while not actually being so. --User: unknown

For that reason I'm glad the authors included the reference to extreme nice guy syndrome. Although some girls may be attracted to the melodrama, for most of the population it neuters your prospects. On another note, there is a genuine slice of the youth population that experiences genuine depression and compulsive tendencies toward self-harm. It is interesting when the non-clinical population takes up these behaviors voluntarily, but more interesting that it gives the genuinely afflicted subset a semi-acceptable outlet for traditionally hidden emotions. Having this outlet for expression may not give them any greater relief, but at least they don't feel as isolated, having a subculture that shares and glorifies their melancholy and volatility. --64.113.93.205 15:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

In regards to the comment about depressed people feeling less isolated, that's just rediculous. The stereotyped Emo culture makes it much more dificult for those afflicted with such mental illness to feel accepted as many feel that by discussing their illness', they will be labeled as Emo, and made an outcast. Additionally, with the few who do feel "normal", or "accepted", they are less inclined to seek help, feeling that they are "normal" and have nothing wrong.
The percieved emo culture does nothign but make it harder for those with depression or bi-polar to seek help. -- Evilio 11:38, 30 July 2006

This is the point I tried to make earlier:

The article, in its present state, describes the emo subculture according to what can be objectively ascertained. However, the connotations of "emo" are equally signficant, particularly concerning its stereotype, as this is what is generally understood by the term. Therefore, more information of the perceptions and the stereotype associated with "emo" should be included. Bands and adherents of the emo music are self-concious of this implied meaning, to cite an example of its significance. Rintrah 17:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Just Wanna Say, That I Have Met Emo's who are neither depressed ir emotional. Nor did the cut them selves or even listin to emo music! i think this article needs to polint out that emo is more of a trend/fashion that will be over in a year or so. . that charicature is crap. it's grunge. nirvana t-shirt, plaid shirt, dirty messy long hair. GRUNGE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.149.102 (talk • contribs)

EMO ROCKS SHUTUP!!!

Clearly emo is a trend solely composed on the basis of attention seeking and lack of mental drive. I am yet to see an emo properly working in a firm or other area of expertise. Most emos come from the lower socio-economic sectors of cities and towns. But the definition of emo is definitely not black and white... sadly there is a vast section of coloured rainbow in between. Everyone wants to stamp their own ideas and opinions on certain topics, originality. Emos are the non-conforming, politically righteous group in society. The emos u see on the streets are nobs who have hopped on the bandwagon like a heard of sheep running off a cliff in unison ( wish they would...). Emos arent original and they try and draw everyone around them, to be emo, by labelling vastly different music and fashion as emo. Simply put these people want to be noticed, and the more theyre noticed the "happier" they are. We're All to Blame

Emo (slang) --> Emo (stereotype)

We should rename this article to Emo (stereotype). Calling a word slang degrades it's percieved value and is therefore POV.--God Ω War 03:54, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

There is nothing about the word "slang" that degrades its value. "Slang" simply means that the word is not generally accepted in an official (read: dictionary) sense. Wikipedia has numerous articles utilizing similar titles, such as Hack (slang).

I'm not sure where to put this, but frequently people will use "emo" to describe their current mood. If someone is feeling sad or depressed they might just say "I feel emo today" as oppesed to actually saying that they are sad or lonely, etc. guest

Anyway, "stereotype" would be a false title, as the term isn't limited to the stereotype. -- ChrisB 04:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
If anything, changing it to Emo (stereotype) would degrade its value. --Switch 08:32, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Besides, isn't that what the culture is, a stereotype? To be part of the culture, you have to conform to the stereotype. So moving it to Emo (stereotype) is redundant. --Onias 16:39, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
I think you must be uncertain of the meanings of those terms, as it seems to me that the word 'stereotype' is clearly much more likely to be deemed POV than the word 'slang'. Ax0l0tl 05:47, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree that using the word 'stereotype' is more likely to be perceived as POV, and that the current title better conforms to Wikipedia standards. (in other words, /metoo) --12.116.162.162 14:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I always considered Emo as a part of the list of youth subcultures, right along nerds, punks, goths, jocks, preps, etc. My suggestion is moving it to Emo (culture) or Emo (subculture), to be consistent with these similar articles: Cyber (subculture), Goth subculture, Hip hop culture, Indie (culture), Jock (subculture), Rivethead (subculture), Teddy Boy (youth culture) etc--Anklepants 08:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the above. "emo (slang)" (to define the use as a general mood) should possibly be a separate article to "emo (subculture)"--Jeffro77 23:35, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism: July 06

"Emo is a slang term used to describe complete homosexuals. F-U-C-K YOU WIKIPEDIA, GO DIE IN A FIRE!!!"
That is the first sentence of the Emo (slang) page on July 29, 2006. – SilverBulletx3talkcontributions 14:11, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Some people try way too hard. --Onias 14:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
you need to calm down. you have way too much time on your hands to come to wikipedia to just bash on people. at least i am here for a reason to help out people and spread happiness and well-being.


Somebody has some problems to work out. I'm glad that the article is locked now.Duckmurderer 05:36, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Kudos

This page is much more useful than the music one as a simple explanation of what Emo actually means. I read the music page and was none the wiser. I read this one and I get it. Thanks to whoever's responsible. --Cardinal Wurzel 22:37, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Uh...

Is the Urban Dictionary really a reliable source?--Foot Dragoon 01:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

It is for a slang term. --Switch 04:27, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
No. Because anyone can write anything on it and it wouldn't matter.

Anyone can write anything in wiki, and it seldom matters. ajdkghsa. See?

Yes, but wikipedia requires that you PROVIDE A RELIABLE SOURCE for your edits. Urban dictionary is basically "OMG I cReatzed A fuNIe sl4Ng, I'11 snEd it in! lolz". I think the link should be removed because it contributes very little, if anything. Sign your comments please (4 ~ at end). Nodnarb232001 19:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Hal jordan?

What's with the Hal jordan? 69.247.65.212 06:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


how come we care?

One question... Why does everyone care that people dress "weird" (not saying that you people do or anything so dont tell me to die), or like to cry or whatever. Emos are people to :P

Um, like, totally, I so know what you mean, whatever. I love MTV, man. Rintrah 09:34, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
It's great, like, writing poetry about how conforming sucks when buying clothes from Hot Topic inc. and whining about life when 5 year olds work in cold mines in the third world AND NEVER FUCKING COMPLAIN. --Onias 14:40, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Oh, totally dude! I was completely pscyhed by the poetry I read, in that, you know, Dashboard Confessional CD. But whoa, your politics, dude, are so conformist. You are not truly depressed, like me. No one is. I am so falling into an abyss — you dudes have no idea. It's dark — I'm crying, and ruining my emo make-up. I am going to brush more hair over my eyes, and, like, show the world, you know, how I totally defy their conformity. Rintrah 17:59, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I feel for you. This fag I met, he said that I actually am conformist because I'm conforming to a subculture and not being individual and saying that hating conformity is hypocritical and I was like "Faggot conformist logic!" Then I slit my wrists, because I can abuse my wrists and they don't give me logic shit. Woe is moe. --Onias 19:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Whoa! That is intense. I cried for hours. My tears and blood (from my wrists) aren't dry yet. That dude is fag. He doesn't understand us emos. Have you read Byron? Me neither. But I tell people I have so dudes respect me, and chicks dig me. But no one understand me. Rintrah 19:33, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
ok, i dont mind people dressing emo or conforming to "emo culture" or whatever but please STOP THE EFFING WRIST CUTTING! thats why people hate emo kids. theres people who have it way worse than you. i dont care if you act like a pussy about your problems and cut your wrists and cry but for the love of God don't expect people to accept you.Burger king 19:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
A few correction:

it's COAL mines... not COLD mines... and I haven't met one emo saying that their life is an abyss. AND conforming to the majority of people just to be accepted is a different thing than conforming to a little subculture. and its CHAVS... not CHAPS. and people don't cut to be accepted. SOME people cut... who aren't emo... and most emos DONT cut.... so i don't think you have the right to post that HERE... but it would be better to post it under WRIST-CUTTING (SLANG)...... not EMO....

other places wrist-cutting can be found:

goths? wrist-cutting(slang) cutting depression

other topics to look into before you go off and assume that every emo does. Because there are more to stereotypes that meet the eye

Keep it on topic chaps! HawkerTyphoon 01:11, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Why the f--k don't you all grow up? What in god's name are you afraid of, that you have to sit there and pay out another social group simply for being what they are? For christ's sake, concentrate your efforts on something a little more worthwhile like, oh, I don't know - CONTRIBUTING SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO SOCIETY? I find alot that the people who make fun of social groups different to theirs are usually no better, and frequently WORSE, than those they claim to be the problem. No I'm not emo. Yes, I sometimes dress like that. The style is actually not half bad. But who the f--k gave you the right to judge, you small-minded, petty thinking bigots? I say this of course, only to the people who are deriding emos but not actually providing any legitimate constructive reason as to why, beyond "ZOMG CUZ THEY'RE ALL FAGS DUR HUR LOL RED SOX 4 EVA"....which, I'm sorry, is completely juvenile and places you BELOW those you criticise, not above. And yes, I was calling said deriders "ignorant rednecks" with that little quoted comment there. 203.14.180.97 07:46, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Wow, Internet, SERIOUS BUSINESS. Just let the people who insult emo have their fun, don't complain on a talk page that they aren't bound to read anytime soon. Oh, and STOP DERIDING US REDNECKS AND OUR IGNORANCE! WE'RE PEOPLE TOO, AT LEAST BASE YOUR HATE ON SOMETHING OTHER THAN TRENDS AND STEREOTYPES, YOU MONSTER! IF YOU DON'T I'LL WASTE MY TIME TO MAKE A COMMENT TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU A COMMENT THAT NO ONE WILL NEVER LISTEN TO. :( . Get the point? (Steampowered 05:02, 26 August 2006 (UTC)).
Be careful, lest you be a victim of 203.14.180.97's hyperbole: he will not merely dub his victims "rednecks", but "ignorant rednecks". Furthermore, if he is angry, he will underestimate your age, calling you a "juvenile" — the ferocity of which few can bear. Indeed, it is not wise to provoke someone so profane that he will say "f--k" repeatibly, with two letters omitted from the most profane word known to humanity. I do not wish to be a victim, so I will refrain from saying more. Rintrah 08:22, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Somebody ought to point out that a right cannot be given, a right is something you have by virtue of being in your position or being you. My right to judge comes from my virtue of being a human being. krikkert (Talk) 21:26, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
No human being has the right to judge another. Mr pseudonym 10:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
By that presumption there would be no legal system, unless God would preside over Earthly affairs. Rintrah 10:58, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
touche. even still, though, different contexts; a 'judge' sentencing an offender, and us plebs judging equals :D Mr pseudonym 11:05, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
We do so subconciously, fortunately without incurring castration. You need to define 'judge' more precisely, and not just allude to the biblical phrase's power — 'judge not, that ye not be judge'. I judge others and accordingly invite others to judge me. One making a decision on whether to go out with a girl is an act of judgement, and evidently not blasphemous. Rintrah 12:24, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Why not? krikkert (Talk) 03:37, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
i just read through this... and people become so stupid as to judging others for judging us. Direct your comment to the people... not to a group... individuals... not people in general.... that was to everyone against AND defending emos. Even though i agree to defend... you are just as low when you judge and assume about a group of people.

Meh, i dun like emos at all i think theyre toolz. they only dress and act the way they do because theyre so useless at life they need some sort of attention, whether its good or bad. EMO is the worst trend, all the guys are homos, cuz they wear bitches jeans WTF and most of the bitches use all the make up to give themselves a mask from reality, cuz they wayyyyyy to ugly? I DIRECT MY COMMENT TO EMOS IN GENERAL. next thing is i wish they would cut along the arm instead of across, means less of the turds in ma city. Emos are the scum, bottom of the barrel, oxygen thieves, they dont deserve to exist, because all they f**kin do is sit around complainin, whining, because theyre "misunderstood". anyones parents would hate u if u dress like a freakin emo, and the ones that do accept emos are the testicleless, "i try to do good" ppl. REALITY is there are ppl out there who are societies misfits? emos are the new misfits, i believe the homeless are more useful becuz they actually pick up litter, which is 10 f**ckin times more than wat useless emos do. and half of the morons smoke and just throw their butts on the ground. IF emos had any intellect, they would understand that in order to be respected and appreciated, you have to actually put some effort into things instead of just being useless c**ts. HOW THE FUCK DO U NON-CONFORM TOGETHER???? they all dress/act/cry the same, fuckin nob ends. ANOTHER THING IS emos best be stop putting their fuckin label on everything, how the fuck is black shorts emo? just cuz u faggits wear black does not mean that it is now emo. Some emo shit brick tried to tell me that my shorts were emo, knocked his block off (reason i get angry is cuz i hate them, and i dun wanna be associated at all with them). U try and claim and tag everything so everyone can be like u, which is exactly the thing u stand against, conforming to society. YES i know there is some music that is emo,,, but thats like a minority so fuck off and stick to ure My Chemical Romance, etc. leave other punk bands out of it. IF anyone doesnt like wat i say about emos, they can stick it. I know im better than any emo that has existed, im smarter, faster, stronger, its not bragging if u can back it up? (Muhammad Ali). We're All to Blame


One last thing, stop comparing emos to disabled and poor africans. The sad reality is that the disable and poor africans are born that way, emo is a lifestyle choice. The next thing is africans are like that because they cant grasp the concept that if they keep breeding they spread AIDs and diseases. People in the western world can breed like guinea pigs but we dont as we can grasp and understand the consequences.

Re-write

To put it simply, this article is complete and utter tosh. It needs a total re-write, and I am seriously consideing starting the whole thing again. Any thoughts? From people who have no opinion on 'emo'? HawkerTyphoon 01:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't we mention that Emo's can't fly?
Possibly. Wikipedia is striving for more incisive information than Britannica. Poets might also want to know what "emo" rhymes with. Rintrah 07:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Chemo. Remo (as in a slang term for remedial). If you mumble a little, lemur. It's an endless world of possibilities... 86.0.232.60 10:42, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I may be old and out of the loop, but from my perspective all I see are a bunch of Melodramatic Kids in makeup and dark cloths pretending to be worldworn intelectuals (can you say GOTH 2.0?) Before the Goth were the Rebels. Before the Rebels were the Beat kids, before the Beat kids.... You get the Idea. Sorry EMO kids, you are not original no matter how desperately you want to believe you were the first generation to achive social and political awareness and dispair at what you've found.

I wear the clothes considered 'emo', but i don't prance around cutting and saying "I am so rebel, I am an intellectual, and i am the first group to have achieved this"... i just prance around saying... "I don't look like you... so what?"
What you just said is a stereotype. So is the comment above yours. It's almost impossible to define "emo," because everything who's "emo" defines it differently. Everybody's different, so every emo isn't going to be a carbon copy of the next one... therefore, every emo defines "emo" differently. Not only that, but in my opinion, if there are so many definitions of "emo," either most people are emo or almost nobody is. That said, This article should be about the emo stereotype, instead. Either that, or include as many definitions as possible. Who agrees?? Chavila 15:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
An article on the stereotype would be easier to verify, but on the contra side, there would be more whining on the talk page. I think the title Emo (slang) warrants a description of the stereotype in the article body because the slang more strongly connotes it; whereas if it were called Emo subculture, the article should describe the subculture. Whatever the case, the drama on the talk page is fun to observe, notwithstanding the wretched state of the article. Rintrah 16:40, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I suppose you're right, and yes... the drama is interesting. Chavila 22:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm ill add to this aswell but it wont be so attacking as above. I just wanted to point out the fact, i go to a private school and we have 1 emo. When talkin to my mates from other private schools, they also acknowledge theirs one or two emos. talking to my mates at public schools they tell me like a quarter of their whole year is emo? are emos a spawn of the poor, are they a trend of tall poppy syndrome, they need to do something drastic to get attention from the rich folk? dunno, just seems like more lower class peeps are emo than richer folk. just to add if u say im discriminatory or stereotypical, dont becuz ure stupid, rich people work for their money, they didnt get it handed to them on a silver platter as u would like to imagine... We're All to Blame

I'm assuming you're a teenager, and I am one also. My opinion is that "rich folk" live in more rural areas, with less people in general than in the inner-city, like where I'm from. Of course there will be more emos in the city. There will also be more "gangsters" and "punks" and every other ridiculous "high-school stereotype". Ridiculous, meaning that it's silly how everyone gets so hung up on them. Also, do you think a "rich kid" with plenty of money and status would have much of a reason to be "emo"? I don't know if you live in a rich area or not, but if you do, you just haven't seen the troubles of crowded cities.
WTF? What are you babbling about. Going to a private school means very little, due to the fact that private school generally only accept people that they choose to allow in. Kind of like a club really. And your apparent "I'm rich, HA! HA!' attitude is quite annoying. Also- 1. Money is not the determining factor here. It could influence other areas of life (where you live, etc.). Becoming emo happens due to the person's own life experiences or choice. 2. Who's to say that rich kids don't have problems as well? Being a very rich kid can lead to social pressures to "protect the family name" or something stupid like that. What about abuse from parents? Another possibility. 3. Getting attention from the rich folk? ...why? What does that have to do with anything? If anyone wanted attention from someone rich, they'd kidnap their daughter. 4. Didn't get their money handed to them. Tax cuts, tax cuts, paying a senator, tax cuts, exploit the poor, tax cuts, embezzlement, tax cuts, MOVE TO MEXICO!. Yeah, noble work indeed. If you has absolutely nothing positive to contribute to wikipeida, then don't bother editing anything. It'll save bandwith. Nodnarb232001 19:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
It's not like emo is a race. Emo is more of a behavior, and people behave based on circumstances. Chavila 15:52, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Emo Music

Dashboard Confessional is not Emo Music. Stuff like Hawthorne Heights is.

Hawthorne is really more post-hardcore or pop-punk in my opinion Burger king 03:13, 23 August 2006 (UTC)burger king

Dashboard is emo. I offer no evidence to support my claim because I just don't care.

But it is.

Kestrel 05:56, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

This article is not about Emo (music) but about the common slang usage. Because emo (slang) draws is meaning from being emotionally unstable, Dashboard Confessional is very much associated with the emo (slang) term. As far as emo (music) goes, the traditional definition consists of bands like Jimmy Eat World and Hawthorne Heights. These bands have no place in this article, except perhaps to show the origin of the word. 68.219.188.246 08:30, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
You have an opinion. But you might want to research some more into where 'emo music' came from. It came from the grunge genre, so you might want to check out post-grunge (i recommend "silverchair") because that genre is where 'emo music' came from. :)

Dashboard AND Hawthorne Heights can both be categorized as emo.

whoever just wrote that thing about dashboard and HH shout shutup and die. they dont know anything about those bands just becuz hawthore height sang that song ohio is for lovers does not make them emo. that song is a figure of speech "cut my wrists and black my eyes" IS A FUCKING FIG OF SPEECH!!!!!! i have the album...

Needless Unedit

The term "emo" in relation to music, is getting more and more distorted. It has been used to describe bands of completely different natures, and as such is normally unreliable. Depending on who is being asked, emo is used to describe "post-hardcore" bands such as Rise Against, to softer bands such as Dashboard Confessional. Emo as a term in the music industry has become distorted and so encompassing it is completely unusable.

Why was this undone, sourced or not it is accurate, and if it is not up to your standards then edit it not delete it. Emo has become a term that relates to anything and everything music and this article needs to say something about it. Emo can no longer even be considered a viable genre as too many completely different bands are being placed under it. At least put the main idea of the above into the article. Or give a reason its not true here.

yea. emo (the style) is totally music based. That is where emo styles came from. 'Scene', on the other hand, is style based.

Terrible

This article sucks.

You've got that right. Chavila 15:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

It needs a complete rewrite or be deleted, it is completely unhelpful and undescriptive of both the actual culture, the precieved culture, and the music.

(previous comment unsigned by 69.139.0.62)
This article is about the slang word, not the music. Don't see the point in deleting it, as it is, in my opinion, a good basis for building something bigger and better. krikkert (Talk) 21:31, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes but the term is related to all those things

Emo means emotional?

I heard it does?Jimmy93211 18:42, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

it came from the music genre grunge (emotive hardcore) not emotional. People who were against the whole emotive hardcore movement started calling the people 'emos' as a condescending (sp?) word. It is nothing more, nothing less.

but it is also the way things get across. we use language to communicate, so its the idea put into yor head, not the dictionary definition, "Emotive hardcore movement, post-punk, post-grunge whatever"... its just the idea... just what bothers me is when people use the term to harass people.


emo does mean emotional and NOT WRIST CUTTING FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!

this is rubbish!

Im sorry but yes emo does mean emotional! How the hell can you label someone like that? An emo is someone who self harms and is in a state of depression, not someone who dresses a certain way! You can't put a label on someone!! I dress like your description and i am noway emo! im sorry but whoever wrote this is a total s**thead! They need to learn some facts and also learn that you can't label someone like that! Thank yoo and goodnight XxX <3


Guess what? Yes, I can. You're emo. Meatspinclock 01:48, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The irony is overwhelming...

So far the parameters of debate are limited to name calling. Unleash the two f-words and the debate is won, by coup de grace. You fuckhead faggots! Rintrah 12:16, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

One of the more intelligent comments I've seen on here. Nodnarb232001 19:42, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


Yea, you are an EMOFAGGOT!! go cut ur wrists and cry about it bitch!

the person who wrote the last sentence is a moron... anyway i think we can seperate emo as a stlye and a way of being or feeling mayb...to tell u the truth I dont really dress in the emo style but accoridng to the deifnitions on here i am an emo... and i do listen to the music, nothing wrong with emo ppl some of u are so f***ing close minded and its so sad to see how ppl can talk so much about others.. oh yeah i have clinical depression :/....--HurricaneRo 23:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

"An emo is someone who self harms and is in a state of depression, not someone who dresses a certain way!" - This is incorrect. Dr zoidberg590 15:12, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Truth be told, emo originally "emo" was a term used to describe people who often dressed in styles from emotional types of music. The self harm thing is actually goth.

Emo is emo, stop whining about it.


Dude...get a fucking clue! Goth is just dressing black and shit...u no all hail satian sort of shit...

...where as emo! EMO IS WHERE YOU SIT IN YOUR ROOM ALL DAY STARING AT THE CEILING WONDERING IF ANYONE WOULD REALLY CARE IF IT JUST FELL ON YOU NOW KILLING YOU INSTANTLY...I SHOULD KNOW...EMO IS SELF HARM, CUTTING ETC...WANTING TO DIE...JUST LIKE ME

CLEARLY EMO IS A TREND, and within that trend there is fashion, music culture etc. To the top person, i feel ure pain as my shorts were branded emo, its sad but emos do try and claim a whole lot of shit under their banner, or people just mis use the word. My shorts were branded emo by an emo... my shorts are like golf pants? and theyre called emo? stupid anyways,,, u can label a fashion sense under emo. they dress like nob ends with black and pink stockings and all sorts of attention seeking circus shit We're All to Blame

i must say...i really dont like you mr bigshot "were all to blame" HAVE YOU EVER MET AN EMO? have you met me? dont be so fucking quick to judje! DAMNIT! i am soooooo anti-predjudist! -XxsheronxsyndromexX <3 4 emos!!!

Post-Hardcore

Post-Hardcore, in my opinionl, is just what emo fans call emo, to escape the stigma, you understand. HawkerTyphoon 12:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree (MCR are not post-hardcore. The Used are not post-hardcore. Thursday are not post-hardcore.), but that's really just our opinions, not encyclopaedia material.
I don't know who they are, but it doesn't matter. The important thing is that you agree with me - post-hardcore is not a real genre x HawkerTyphoon 11:53, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Image:Emo is Emotional Punk and they are just stupid coz they try kill themselves and they do usually dress the way wikipedia said SOZ xoxoxo <3 <3

SUM 41 and LINKIN PARK are not fuckin emo? why do people keep telling me this...?

Before Posting On the Factual Nature of This Article....

Before complaining about what "is" or "isn't" considered "Emo" by your definition, you have to understand something: Just as the articule accurately describes, there were three major periods for "Emo" music. The original Washington movement of local and very raw bands who often did such emotional actions as to cry on stage; a late 90's movement usually defined by Weezer's Pinkerton album and vintage clothing; and the most recent black hair/tight pants transition incorporating such bands as Panic! At the Disco.

What has been said above is absolutely nothing disputable. It does not matter if you as a fan of Weezer or Panic! At the Disco consider one band/style or another more or less "Emo." These are simply the three very different stages that the "Emo" sound/style has undergone and you need to accept this. The actual article does a good job of tracking the transitions and unless you are planning to add more information to one of the seperate parts, please don't bother editting the article because you feel as it stands it's not "your" definition. The way it is written should satisfy any lay person's understanding of the three divisions. Wikipedia also uses an unbiased approach to defining an idea and is not "stereotyping" by simply describing the standard attire or musical taste of a particular group, it is merely better describing it for those curious to know more. Please take all of that into consideration before altering this article for your own personal satisfaction.

True. The topic is also controversial because the "emo" image, in popular conception, is partly defined by the negative stereotyping of outsiders. It seems the "emo" subculture in itself is not coherently defined by its practitioners; those subscribing to it are apparently more influenced by the music than the social group. As a result, different emos will try to define the culture according to their tastes, and their various understandings of it.
By contrast, the goth subculture, though not homogenous, has an apparently clearer and less disputable definition to its practitioners, as far as I can glean as an outsider.
People can easily argue about what is and is not emo because no citations compel anyone to accept a particular interpretation. It is either a subject of pride or revulsion, so people are tempted to edit it without regard for verifiability.
I took an interest in this article because I wanted to understand why there were so many skinny guys wearing tight jeans and make-up who apparently materialised from no where on the streets. This article does not yet satisfactorily answer that. Rintrah 07:05, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
...because MTV decided to sell more crap by making crappy bands who wear tight jeans and make-up really popular. And they succeeded. --Switch 12:43, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
MTV does often dictate music tastes to its viewers. But to create a whole sub-culture, I believe, a television channel has to do more than play certain music videos, interview band members, and produce television shows aimed at teenagers — at least I cannot recall any television shows which have created a subculture. You need to support your proposition with evidence, as appealing as your denunciation might be as a sentiment alone. Rintrah 15:20, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
They already did it once with nu metal (see Merchants of Cool on IMDB, and their transscript and streaming video), it's no stretch to realise once nu metal was out they'd do the same thing with something else. They didn't make a subculture; they just took one, made it more appealing to the "rebellious" kids they get paid to brainwash, and started polluting the airwaves with it.--Switch 12:22, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
I read about a page of the transcript and realised something I suspected: television documentaries look scizophrenic in their transcripts. The text in a documentary jumps from one person to the next, without any steady progression or delineation of ideas. It makes the thesis of Amusing Ourselves to Death seem more real. Documentaries are not much more than entertainment packages. They are sometimes useful for subjects on history, but virtually worthless for everything else. Read a book instead. Rintrah 15:32, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
I have read that particular book, and I'm confused by what you say. Of course the film jumps from person to person; the progression is of ideas, not poeple to be interviewed, which allows for a cohesive meaning to the film. In fact, the film presents information very similar to that of the book in question, except it is not essentially a propaganda piece aimed at one particular medium, but an exposé of an industry, targeted at the practices of several media.
I'm also a writer, and a prodigous reader. I had read most of Seuss' children's work by the time I was three, most of Dahl's children's stories by the time I was six, and read The Lord of the Rings when I was twelve. I was in the tenth percentile of the state in my final year of school literature exam. When you can read Metamagical Themas, The Silmarillion and The Gods Themselves at the same time and take any meaning away from them, you can have a go at being condescending. --Switch 17:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
If you're going to tell someone not to be condescending by being condescending, it isn't very convincing if you tell people that you're a "prodigous reader".--Jeffro77 07:56, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
The jumping is precisely what makes the ideas incohesive; the audience has to put disconnected comments into a structred argument. Some information might be similar, but the themes are entirely different. If it were not merely soundbites spliced together, it might actually be able to convey a cohesive meaning. Since you have taken my comment as a personal attack — even though it was directed at the film itself —, you perhaps want me to comment on your exploits. I am pretty sure I could read those three books at the same time. I have already read one Hofsdater (Gödel Escher Bach) a long time ago; I have never liked Tolkein, but if I were forced to read it, I might, and even extract meaning from it; and Asimov is not hard to read, for his style is very straightforward. However intelligent you may be — though it does not really concern me, and your sudden outburst seems like a vanity comment; I might as well comment on my own high intelligence and boast about what girls have said of my looks, though I can keep some restraint —, your arguments are not well constructed, and those are what I have examined and commented on. I hate MTV too, but a simple diatribe is not as good as a proper argument. And another problem is, if your assertions are so highly important, you have chosen the wrong forum! Rintrah 02:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
They aren't important, they're just a defense against condescending remarks. I can also restrain myself from boastful remarks, but I feel compelled to defend myself when someone insults my intelligence (unlike your handsome self, my intelligence is really all I have going for me). The audience follows a natural progression of thought, as well as following the process in action with a few histories presented as examples, with several different interviewers contributing to that progression. It is not intended to be presented as an argument, but as an exposé of the mainstream music industry. It merely shows what does happen; the way in which the media influence their audience is implicit in the facts the film presents. --Switch 03:14, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
First of all, if you are insulted by someone in a web-forum, you do not really understand web-forums. Those posting remarks are anonymous; their identity on the web is different to their real life one. There is little point in taking some comment as a grave insult to your real-life person. Wikistress is nonsense. Moreover, I cannot find where I have insulted your intelligence, be it openly or in a veiled comment.
As for documentaries, I disdain the format because of how the information is presented. The soundbites, each of which comments on something different, make the progression unnatural. It presents a succession of "facts" for a particular argument, with the experts interviewed conferring weight upon them. If this is not meant as an argument, the viewer either has to assume it is correct at the beginning, or it is unpersuasive rationally, because an argument is the mode of rational persuation. I cannot think of a rational mode of persuation that is not an argument. In the expose documentary format, it is difficult for the viewer to put all the facts into a coherent argument after they have been presented with poorly connected pieces. Some investigative documentaries do present good arguments, but they are the exception. A compelling documentary usually presents simple facts validated by the experts alone (like important whistle blowers, for instance), and consequently prove some position; but for most controversial issues, this style is inadequate. Rintrah 09:59, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

emo's do not like indie music i know thousands of emo's and none of them like indie.

TV is full of shit, infact all sources of media (excluding encyclopedias and other non biased databases)are full of shit because has not anyone realised that everything you see is not what is actually the most important but what will get the most coverage for example, 1 person being murdered in your neighbourhood has the same sort of impact on TV as 10000 people starving in a 3rd world culture, because media is just there to make money, they dont care what the concequences are. So we put this into effect and if they know people are depressed more than ever and to a larger amount of people they will of course find someway to get those viewers in which is why current society is an it is now.
another thing is why do you care about other people so much? let people live their lives the way they want and stop being abusive to emos, they look different. Thats the same as making fun of someone that is disabled just cause they look different. When the truth is that its actually quite childish and if you do that, id say personally your as bad as terrorists because they are following their religion that non-believers have to be killed. Well following a predujist value means that your as fucked up as them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.10.229.124 (talk • contribs)
Sometimes I feel there should be a separate soapbox page for impromptu essays. But thank you for sharing your thoughts. Rintrah 17:18, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Are you serious? You're comparing the mass killing if innocent civilians for political or religious reasons with calling someone "emo?" Also, disabled people don't want to be disabled, it just happens. Emo people choose to be what they are. You can't really consider both of them the same thing. But back to the terrorism. You're so wrong it's not even worth going on about. Last_Drop_of_Sanity 21:50, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
So, so, so wrong. I can't even begin to comprehend the thought processes that you went through to post that.
(Also, I posit that MTV, a corporation that makes its money from producing manufactured music, is more full of shit than an independent documentary).
(Also also, if 10000 people starving in the thtird world got as much coverage as one murder near me, there would be a lot more publi outrage about it. It would be all over the news every day.)
(Also also also, calling people names is as bad as terrorism? And since when are all terrorists motivated by some obscure religion that commands all nonbelievers be killed? Religions like that don't last long; most terrorists have political, not religious, goals.)
(Also also also also, what the fuck? Terrorism?)
(Also also also also also, I don't insult people for being emo. I'm fine with everyone as long as they're fine with me.) --Switch 17:11, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

just remember that most documentaries exhibit extreme selection of detail. I must agree with who ever sed TV DID IT. Media has a major impact on the development of society and has been exhibiting this power exuberantly over the last 5-10 years. People have obsessions with celebrities, want to be/look/act like them. MTV is watched by millions around the world and have in a sense developed the emo sub-culture, into the the thriving bacterium within society. Another sense is that ppl are becoming whores, ive heard of 12-13 year olds having sex, which is absolutely ridiculous, as they wouldnt even know were to put it. The vast information and entertainment that exhibits sex to young viewers from the internet and TV, has attributed to the loss of morals in society. Yer and the disable/ emo comment above is intellectually disabling. That comparison is ridiculous, my problem with emos is that they are so self obsessed its scary, they need attention (good or bad). We're All to Blame

Wrist Cutting

Someone needs to make a topic about wrist cutting.

You can if you like, if you can make it conform to encyclopedic standards. Then, like some magical science experiment, you might find posts bubbling on the talk page as a result. Rintrah 17:21, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

every slit is a line of poetry207.69.136.200 03:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)"V"

Wrist cutting is a form of self harm to relieve the user from depression. Gothics were the first to perform this and they did it as a distraction from emotional pain. The physical pain overcomes the emotional, which gives them "relief". twisted...

I though the difference between a emo and a goth is the cutting, and it isnt juz the wrist, i spoke to a emo on msn, asked him wat other stuff he did to himself, he burnt himself, threw himself downstairs and into cars, cut his wrists,knuckles,palm,leg and rarly his neck and drowning himself. thats all i remember, so cutting isnt the only thing they do -Zakyboy

Self-harm predates goths by a little bit (not much, just a century or two or several). The reason it is performed is that physical pain releases natural endorphins, which can make you feel happier. As for Zakyboy - what? --Switch 02:14, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

HEY! I happen to be emo and i know thay dont all cut themselfs! cutting is for suicidal emos... sure were depressed and stuff but thats only because of what people say about us. we get critisized over all that junk and it only makes our lives worse so cut it out! (not literally) - XxsheronxsyndromexX

Neo-Emo (Nemo)

Nemos are an emerging subclass of the emos, and not all is known just yet. But what we do know, is that "Neo Emo (Nemo)" is a title given to a person who once was an "emo", but has taken it to a whole different level. I.E. The new breed of "emo." One such example is the lead singer of "My Chemical Romance." Prior to the renewed interest in the band, he was a blatant emo. However, with the debut of his new song, his hair has been dyed white, and his clothing style has made an obvious change. Neo-emos, follow many of the same rituals as a emo, but with some obvious visual differences.

Update this article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Emo.

That is absolutely preposterous. To even think about making an addition to this article for such a trivial reason is ridiculous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Poj21 (talk • contribs)

that's not really true if a person isn't emo then they are not emo 207.69.136.200 02:50, 7 November 2006 (UTC)"V"

In General

Quite frankly, I find this article to be beyond offensive and one-sided. Just because someone wears girl pants and dyes their hair DOES NOT MAKE THEM EMO. And also, someone is "emo," not "an emo."

Emo, within the blanket of scene, is an extremely offensive term, and I think that needs to be addressed without someone being completely ignorant. Not saying I'll do this, but one day, someone's going to mess with the wrong "emo kid" and get their teeth knocked out. :] -Ridethefire3211 03:07, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Lots of people say they are emo, but they just dress in black and call themselves emo. I have yet to meet a "real" emo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.200.116.136 (talk • contribs)

That's what I would call a "poser" or a "wannabe". UnDeRsCoRe 22:56, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

There is also a wikipedia article on the word fuck, not to mention the list of ethnic slurs. "Emo" is a real thing, and wikipedia articles are about reality. Get over it. Last_Drop_of_Sanity 21:54, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

BY ANY CHANCE did u notice that u sed GIRLS pants? GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS, they are designed for women because women dont have a dick or balls? theyre tight there because they can be... guys wearing GIRLS pants, means they are ball less, dickless homos. And by the way, if u see emos their pale, weak, decrepit, aesthetic fools, my presence will merely scare any existing emo away. We're All to Blame

AHEM! please stop with the critsizing of the emos! theyre ppl 2!

History

Ok, from what I can see, there are two conflicting stories on the history of emo, one takes it from "emotive hardcore," and one from "emotional hardcore." Someone who knows more about this topic then I do should find some actual sources for which one is true, because they're both different (one's from the 90's grunge scene, one is from the mid 80's), and I'm really curious as to which one it is. Last_Drop_of_Sanity 22:17, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

For a good history check out http://www.fourfa.com.

As a stereotype of all rock subcultures

From my personal experience, I have come to realize that “emo” is used as a catchall insult for anyone who appears to be a part of any rock subculture. (I go to a private high school and can hardly even walk thru the halls without having it yelled at me). I think the use of “emo” in this manner is becoming more prevalent and should be elaborated on in the article.


-Tripp 10-11-06

Really? I've never seen that. I never get called emo (I'm a punk). I have trouble imagining a metalhead getting called emo too. Maybe trendy rockers who try really hard to look fashionably perfect, but not all rockers in general. Ungovernable ForceGot something to say? 03:00, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Call me crazy, but it seems to be the kids who are part of rock subcultures who do most of the insulting and yelling "emo" at people. The kids who get called emo are... well, see above. --Switch 02:23, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

meh we have one emo at our skoo and he does get abused, not physically. he was actually emo, who wore tight women jeans, hair over one eye etc. brought it on himself. go to youtube and watch sum41 film clip, thats how a punk rocker should look like, if u dont well u brought it on ureself, go sum41 :D

I agree, it is just a derogatory word for people who are part of a rock subculture. Because you dress "emo" has nothing to do with listening to the music. Most "emos" I know listen to Death Metal and Hardcore.

yes i agree not all emos listen to emo XxsheronxsyndromexX

In my experience, "metal" and "hardcore" are just what emo kids call emo because they dom't want to admit they're emo. --Switch t 05:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

vintage → vintage

[[vintage]] → [[vintage clothing|vintage]]

148.81.137.2 09:48, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

NO!! Emo is a sub-culture, it's a mix of Hipster, Nerd, Indie, Metal, Punk, and prep. Emos wear tight clothes and have longish hair in their faces, they are 99% of the time white males between the ages of 14-18, They often wear striped clothes and neck ties, they die their hair Black, Blonde or Red, never anything un-natural except maybe streaks. Emos usually wear dark jeans but tight small light colored T-shirts with a vintage loge. They wear striped hoodies and sweaters that are Orange and gray, or Red and black. They sometimes wear makeup, red lipstick and black eye makeup! they do NOT!! wear black lipstick. They have an annoying attitude, Really whiney, the world is unfair, yet most of them live in monster homes in New England. To have a good description pleace watch the podcast "Hope is emo" it's availible through itunes, youtube or hopeisemo.com, BUT HOPE IS NOT AN EMO!! Hope dresses like a goth, emo's don't dress like that at ALL! Emo is defined by the way someone dresses not how they act, although they can be associated with that attitude. The emo song describes emos pretty well.

Again, whether you realize it or not, what you just posted is probably 89% your opinion. That's the problem with trying to define "emo". Chavila 22:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

God thank you for giving me that link hopeisemo. Can you see how that stupid excuse of life acted towards her father, upon askin her if she wanted something from the shop, the stupid whore acts like a delinquent. That is wat i cant handle about emos, they are manufactured to seek attention, whether its good or bad. ( i keep repeating myself). We're All to Blame

Why try?

It is not possible to give a clear definition of emo that everyone will understand. As a matter of fact, it is impossible to do anything related to emo that anyone will understand. Hmmmm...

Alright, Academia concerning the Emo.

Here's the big problem. I am not an emo, and I don't know much about emos, which is why I chose them for research.

I usually trust Wikipedia.org for all sorts of information, and I made the serious mistake of volunteering to discuss what an emo is and whatnot. I'm researching them for a psychology class, and I've already hit about 12 sites--none of which are any help in the objectiveness department, except for the Emo Music section. What I wanted to focus on was the Social Group known as the Emo, from their trends (in fashion), to their demographic (age, economic status, etc) all the way to their philosophies. I got half way through this talk page (after reading a pretty skimpy article on Emos right here in Wikipedia.org).

My professor wants me to discuss them in an objective and poised manner, but most of the slants are negative, which won't be good for presentation. He lumped me under the Psychological Diseases chapter and I was thinking to myself: wtf? Why did he put my topic there?

He probably already has a bias that emos are completely bi-polar and depressed, otherwise he would've... put them somewhere else?

Yeah, help?

(I don't know how to sign this--this is the first time I've done this).

djhacku_inthetitswitha_wakizashi@yahoo.com

Well, the major problem with your assignment is that there is no social group universally called "emo". You can't call any band emo without someone disagreeing with you. You can't call any person or trend emo without someone disagreeing. There are very few people who call themselves "emo". I would just utilise what you've come to associate "emo" with. If you need to do research, I think the best place thing be to go to UrbanDictonary's definition of "emo", as well as the MySpace group called "The Emo Army" or similar groups, and talk to them. I can't help you any more than that. --Switch 01:57, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


Hi Anon,

I think the emo subculture is a really interesting topic to look into. I have my final year thesis due next week, so I can't help you out much. But the first paper you should look into is Emo Music and Youth Culture by Brian Bailley (link). It discusses emo in the context of engaging with youth through education. It's thoughtfully written (unlike many of the tabloid newspaper articles which are often just plain wrong) though my only criticism of it is that it paints emos as emotionally vulnerable rather than people who embrace emotions and find solace in the music. Andy Grenwald's Nothing Feels Good might also help you gain an understanding of the subject. From the Amazon preview it seems thoughtful though I haven't had time to read it in full (link).

Beyond those the next thing you probably want to look into is the music and our emo (music) article might be helpful there. Presuming you are discussing what that article calls third-wave emo (post-2000), you might be able to get a sense of it from the lyrics of songs. Emo music is often misinterpreted as I think in emo music there is a desire to convey very strong emotions with very strong imagery often in a far more graphic way than mainstream pop would. This leads to lyrics like those from Hawthorne Heights' Ohio is for Lovers "So cut my wrists and black my eyes. \ So I can fall asleep tonight, or die. \ Because you kill me." and Taking Back Sunday's You're So Last Summer "The truth is you could slit my throat and with my one last gasping breath \ I'd apologize for bleedin' on your shirt." Outsiders may not realize that this is mostly metaphor and the guys from Hawthorne Heights discuss that in an interview here. Nevertheless lyrics like these and others in emo are, in my opinion, indicative of the emphasis the subculture places on emotion, emotional expression ("dressed in a fashion that's fitting to the inconsistencies of my moods") and on this notion that there are no shameful emotions. This notion that emotions ought to be expressed not suppressed is something that is not fully embraced by wider society and is probably a partially responsible for all the shit emo kids put up with — but ideologies that run counter to mainstream thought are the essence of all forms of punk not just emo.

Also you might want to cover something about the conflict over what is emo and what isn't and how a subculture forms around a label that some people don't even like or if an emo subculture even exists at all. Many prototypical bands of the genre reject the label outright, witness Taking Back Sunday (link) and My Chemical Romance (link). Probably the biggest name in third-wave emo that accepts the label is Silverstein (link note categories). The Used also seem not to object too much to the screamo label.

Finally don't confuse emo with the goth subculture, it's a surprisingly common mistake but the two are very different. This is in terms of the way they identify themselves, their music and their feelings towards society (Goths seem more cynical to me). However parallels between the two can be drawn because both are derived from punk and both embrace romanticism to an extent. Finally appreciate that there is an element of humour about the wider perception of emo in the modern scene. And this is evident in everything from Fall Out Boy's needlessly long titles on their second album From Under the Cork Tree (like Get Busy Living Or Get Busy Dying (Do Your Part To Save The Scene And Stop Going To Shows)) to the names of pro-emo communities themselves like Cry Baby Emo Kids. Even in the early post-2000 emo stuff there were hints of humour.

If you do find anything interesting in your research please post it back here or send it to me because I really enjoy learning about this stuff. Any readers out there who agree/disagree with anything I've said I also welcome your thoughts.

Cedars 12:34, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

204.62.200.20 23:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)Djhacku_inthetitswitha_wakizashi@yahoo.com says:

Whoa, thanks for that. I think I'll link up emo culture (especially emo music--thank you for mentioning some of those highlights) up with some Freud and Jung analysis, but I won't go very much into detail concerning that. I was considering calling the "emo" culture a pathology, but I think it's very similar to other cliques one is likely to see in high school and college, so I guess it isn't fair to give that culture a "pathology" stigma. I interviewed a few people who claimed they were "emo", but I think I'm starting to get the trend. People who procclaim themselves "emo" generally aren't. They use it more as a motif (on some people the "emo" fashion seems to jive well, and I don't mind), and sometimes they just enjoy the music. I have gotten into a scruffle with a few offended parties who were more than insulted at the suggestion of even resembling someone "emo", but I looked for all the signs that popped up in the Urban Dictionary: the glasses, the pants, the hair, the makeup. Tepid responses. I'm going to copy and paste this page into my notes section when I present, so thank you, Cedars, and thank you Switch.

I want nothing to do with this "MTV emo" crud

I guess I dress emo and I have an emo dispostion but the fact is I don't listen to any music that is this "MTV emo". I do listen to music like appleseed cast and dashboard confessionals the old albums but this new hawthorn heights, my chemical romance etc etc is bad music and I don't want the world thinking thats what in my MP3 player because it's not. Also this concept of emo being "gay" is crazy. Gay people don't dress or act emo infact its the oppsite, gay people that I know dress so called "preppy" with bright colors and polo shirts and have a happy go lucky attitude which is nothing like the sad, dark colored, hoodie wearing, band pins, and maybe dark long black hair of the emo croud has. I think stupid people who like to call others gay like it's an insult are just picking on this new breed of nerds and will call anyone unlike themselves "gay". Now, because the of this MTV emo world I have stated that I am not emo and just "indie rock" which has a proud ring to it and by me saying that has killed off all the name calling and the homosexual undertones the emo name has put upon me. You probally are wondering who I am or how I seem to know a lot about this subject but really it does not matter lets just say I work with high schoolers and musicians and I see how kids judge eachother. Lets face it those two groups have a lot of weight in the media.


bye,

Matthew

That's an interesting story. Unfortunately, this is Wikipedia, and no one cares about your specific situation. Also, where in the article does it say that emo kids are gay? Last_Drop_of_Sanity 13:19, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

emo kids are gay, but gays arent emo kids? get it, one can be the other without the other being that one? confusing use your head >< lolz. wearing womens clothes and make up is gay. hoe k.

Hysterically funny and...emo?

You guys are hilarious. Emo can mean so many different things to different people. I have a friend who says "I'm feeling emo" when she's feeling amotional, sad, depressed, etc. But you guys are hysterically funny. You all have just proved that, at least on this talk page, anyone who is emo will come to wikipedia to scream and cuss at each other to prove that they are right about a topic that is so new and vague that no one actually has the "definition". You all have made my day. God bless! <3 Brianne

Actually what happened was, the people with actual SENSE defined "Emo (Slang)" just fine, but then the emo kids came along and complained because their specific situation was not addressed in the article. Last_Drop_of_Sanity 13:14, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Re-organisation of this article. More depth required?

Given the subject matter, this article clearly needs to be larger and more in-depth. Particularly the section entitled "fashion and culture". It needs to be called simply "culture" and then have fashion as a sub-section. Suggestions for other sub-sections, please?

Also, a main section entitled "controversy", where stereotypes/criticisms etc. can be listed, might be a good idea. We're not looking for opinions, remember, just the noting of established criticisms/stereotypes/whatever, for the sake of better understanding.

Finally, can we PLEASE just have some impartiality from people? This has the potential to be a really fascinating article, if everyone pulls together and forgets their personal views on this subject.

--Leowatkins 19:50, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

You are asking people to forget their personal views on a controversial topic? Well, I suppose if humans and leprauchans together can forget their differences, so can humans among themselves!
Seriously, if you create those sections, no-one will oppose you, and you would most likely improve the article, except in the stereotypes and criticisms. This idea is a feast for controversy. Some people desparately want it, and others never want it to appear (see above for examples).
Impartiality is extremely difficult, because this article is not written with a retinue of sources. Only an academic could write this with a serious pretence of impartiality, but even then, hordes would still decry it for bias. Rintrah 13:57, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, i think think the only way we're ever going to make this article truely representative is if we emphasise the variation of use/misuse of the term "emo" and try to represent all the different forms it takes, as and when our attention is drawn to them. --Leowatkins 15:56, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Emo..

Emo isn't just emotions etc anymore it's a way people feel they must "express themselves" which is ridiculous but it is. I believe emo is the down state of mind forced into the minds of many teenagers made manifest. Emo is like metal, there are many types, and we should try and establish them.

Wikipedia does not care about your opinion on the matter. This is about the actual definition of "Emo (Slang)." Last_Drop_of_Sanity 13:11, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Offensive?

I don't understand why people get offended when others talk about their subculture in ways that make them upset (i.e.- make them emo). For example, on a page of slang people are trying to defend emo like it's under attack. It's not. Calm down. Just because the slang word is used like " Stop being an emo kid," when referring to a complaining/whiny/annoying person, doesn't mean that anybody thinks emo kids are gay, or thinks that they're unworthy as human beings or whatever. That's the way the word is used. That's it's definition. You being emo doesn't change the way the word is used, or the way emo kids are perceived. Honestly, I, as a former "goth kid", am told by my brother to "stop being so gothix", and I don't take offense. At all. Just as goth has a connotation for a cynical, wierd dude who wears all black, so emo has a meaning- people who wear dark makeup, girl pants, and write wierd poetry about heartbreaks and whatnot. 65.182.52.95 22:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

well goths are cool but so are emos hmm?? well i tell me brother stop being emo shit. this is wat i think though goth >>>>>> emo 207.69.136.200 02:59, 7 November 2006 (UTC)"V"

Emos, or Posers?

i'v ehad a lot of freinds some go around saying "oh don't mess with me i'm emo" but when do "emos" say that?... they don't because emo's don't stand up for themselves! Real emos just stand by and take it. Some people are just fucking posers that need so much fucking attention!!! That's why i hate posers...207.69.136.200 02:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)"V"

x

That is SO not true. I don't label myself as Emo, but I've been called it.. and I suppose I fit the general stereotype. I stand up for myself, and I am MYSELF.

I think you need to get some hobbies instead of bashing people on Wikipedia.

Can an admin please correct this?

the page is protected but still says "emo people are extreme homosexuals". can someone please fix it?

Haha, bit of an oversight there. (Fixed it... didn't need to be an admin though, just need to register). -SColombo 06:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Hair

Removed "Emo people almost always have short hair and anyone with long hair is not emo," as it conflicts with the popular stereotype as well as the caricature further down the page. --TH89 06:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

This has got to be the best explaination of "emo" out there. But, like the article says, it really is hard to find an exact definition because everyone has a different view of "emo people." Coming from a person who is friends with many people who could be considered "emo," I think this article is pretty accurate.

Excellent Article at Present State

There is no slander, but merely an in depth description of the current "state" or what "emo" means and how people react to it. I'm pleased with it's present form. Altonbr 00:13, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Misnomer

Stating that "emo" is a misnomer as the primary definition of the word is COMPLETELY inappropriate. First and foremost, it is a slang term. It has always been a slang term.

But, going further, calling it a misnomer is simply an opinion, particularly since the "original" definition is dubious. Ian Mackaye thought that the term "emo" was bullshit in 1986 link.

"Emo" is whatever it's being used to describe. It's most widespread definition is the one being used today. It evolved into the term it is today - calling the modern version a "mistake" violates WP:NPOV. -- ChrisB 03:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Definition of Emo (Slang)

While I realize that many people who either take on the title of Emo, or deface it, the topic itself isn't up for debate. Society as a whole decides the connotations of certain slang words, such as emo. If you consider yourself Emo, welcome to the real world. Most people think you guys are whiny, annoying brats. The topic should not be put up for debate because you think "Zomg, My Chemical Romance is SO not emo." The fact is, society decides whom to include when they discuss emo. Slang is decided upon by the informals who use it. If we say emo means you wear your hair over one eye, then we are correct. By the Way: If you think I have no room to talk on the subject, most of my favorite bands are considered "emo".

Post-Hardcore = emo? Or Emo = Post-Hardcore? Or Post-hardcore is completely different from Emo?

At The Drive-In is Emo? The Fall Of Troy is Emo? THE BLOOD BROTHERS IS EMO?? Heh...Say that Emo is Post-hardcore in some kind of way can be acceptble deppeding of the band, but Post-hardcore is something different from Emo, go listen to Fall Of Troy or The Blood Brothers(and so many others!) to find the true modern Post-Hardcore!

Now said this, EMO as music should be classified yes, but EMO as slang? Hum..What about MCR style? They dont even consider themselves Emo, what I agree by the way in some degree considering their last CD. Come on, there is no such classification, who says proudly and loud "Im Emo" just mean "Im idiot and easyly influenced by large masses". The same for who says "I hate EMO(people)!" Just go listen to your music and leave the others alone heh. Dont try to convert anybody to or out of the "EMO cause and style" because its ridiculous and completely made-up by the Media.

Wake up people..