Talk:Emo (slang)/Archive3

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another topic to bring up?

girl or boy? =/

pic???

A GFDL or public domain photo of someone all emo'd-out would be a great addition to this page, if anyone has a digi camera and an emo friend that is willing to pose. youngamerican (talk) 20:10, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Cant you just find a picture on myspace? Maybe I Should do that. *does it*

65.188.222.91 23:17, 25 February 2006 (UTC)nepegg89

- No, we don't know the copyright status of any of those photos. The best way to have an appropriate photo would basically have to have a wikipedian personally snap a picture of a willing friend that is dressed in an emo style. there are other ways, but this would be the best possible course to ensure compliance with the GFDL. youngamerican (talk) 16:49, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Please see the discussion at the top of this talk page: Does anyone agree with me that this article needs to be visually represented?--ikiroid | (talk) 19:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

The current image is really bad. We have dyed black, swept-down hair - that's it. It doesn't show the clothes, and the model doesn't even have the stereotypical labret.

Hi guys, I'm new to this whole wikipedia thing. But I know that I have studied the whole Emo fashion, music and Attitude for about a year now and I know that I have all the nessessary clothing to pose for a stereotypical emo. I have the band t-shirt, the studded belt, the emo nerdy glasses, the high top converse, the tight black jeans and I have even dyed my hair jet black. I'll get I pic of myself and post it ASAP.

Feel free use one of my pictures lol. (myspace.com/lordofchaosiori) Lordofchaosiori 17:33, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Warped Tour

So I'm apparently the only person that has a problem with this statement?

"Followers of this trend are generally fans of pop rock groups who appear at Warped Tour in the 00s."

So we're basically saying that "emo" is an offshoot of the Warped Tour? Or that all "emo" bands play the Warped Tour, including those in the UK where there is no Warped Tour? Or that only pop rock bands play the Warped Tour? Or that all people who dress emo attend the Warped Tour? Especially all of the people who dress "emo" in the UK, where there is no Warped Tour?

I don't get it. And I certainly don't like it being jammed into the article without discussion and without a source. -- ChrisB 23:12, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Can't believe somebody would need this explaining to them, especially somebody who heavily edits the article.

In the Emo (music) article, it reads; "Correctly or not, emo has often been used to describe such bands as AFI, Alexisonfire, A Static Lullaby, Brand New, Coheed and Cambria, Fall Out Boy, Finch, From Autumn To Ashes, From First To Last, Funeral for a Friend, Hawthorne Heights, Matchbook Romance, My Chemical Romance, Silverstein, Something Corporate, Taking Back Sunday, The Starting Line, The Used, and Thrice."

These bands play Warped Tour in the 00s, particularly popular are the pop rock groups such as The Used, My Chemical Romance, Something Corporate, Fall Out Boy, etc.

And from the Emo (slang) article it reads; "The other popular style of dress focuses on darker colors. Commonly seen elements include dark colored hair (often dyed either black or an unnatural dark hue), males wearing pants tailored for females, lip, eyebrow, and labret piercings, and dark make-up on males and females (most notably black eyeliner, although red eyeshadow is becoming increasingly popular). Followers of this trend are generally fans of pop rock groups who appear at Warped Tour in the 00s."

Nowhere does it say everybody who follows that trend and listens to bands such as MCR, The Used, etc go to Warped Tour, it simply states that the people who follow the newest "sect" of what is labelled "emo" are generally fans of the pop rock groups who play Warped, similar to the "emos" of the 90s been associated/fans of the “indie emo” movement, which is also mentioned in the article. - Deathrocker 01:49, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, you drew up this conclusion on your own, explained right here, which makes it original research. Wiki explicity forbids original research. So unless you have a verifiable source for your argument, it can't be included, no matter how strongly you feel about it.

Beyond that, it's just ridiculous. There are a lot of people who display emo fashion that don't listen to the bands you're describing. What does "generally" mean? 50%? 75%? If it's "not all", then is it a majority? And, regardless of the answer, can you prove it?

Furthermore, your generalization doesn't need to be there because the paragraph describes the fashion for what it actually is - we don't need to quantify some random description as to who's wearing it.

The claim that the new "emo" is related to the Warped Tour belongs in the music article, not here. It doesn't have anything to do with "emo" attitudes or fashion trends. Again, there are significant subsets of people who wear the fashion but don't listen to the bands and who listen to the bands but don't wear the fashion. Your argument draws a link between the two where it doesn't exist.

Again, find a source that supports your argument, and I wouldn't make that big a deal about it. But I know for a fact that you can't provide a source. You're pulling this out of your head and forcing us to accept it.

And, for the record, there were no "emos" in the 90s "indie emo" scene. That term didn't appear until this decade. -- ChrisB 02:44, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Whoever wrote this artical sounds like an ignorant ass who was looking at this artical from a biased point of view. No, prefrence in music does not specify one subculture, such as I listen to a few of those bands on that list, yet if one were to see me, one would harldy define me as "emo." Also, there is a difference between pop-punk and "emo" (which is actually called post-hardcore). For example, My Chemical Romance and The Used- pop-punk. From First to Last and Brand New-post hardcore. Yes, you may believe that all emo kids listen to these bands, but on an article that was meant to dicuss the term "emo" as a slang, it would hardly be appropriate to discuss the musical choices of these so called "emo" kids. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.212.205.239 (talk • contribs) 01:41, 24 June 2006

Um, I would highly recommend re-reading the article. Nowhere in it does it claim that "emo kids" listen to My Chemical Romance or The Used, or what their "musical choices" are. The article intentionally says nothing about the music. (The Used aren't even mentioned in the article.) -- ChrisB 03:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

customs and rules

I am looking for some information on what the customs and rules of emo are. I couldn't really find anything on rules or customs, but I am interested. If anybody could get back to me soon, my e-mail is Dillybean418@yahoo.com and my myspace page is myspace.com/dillholio. Thanks a ton -Dylan.

there really aren't defined customs as emo is arbitrarily used. people who are considered emo at my school normally wear black shirts and white collared shirts underneath and act foolish and claim to laugh at morbid things. Just what I have seen.

Cartoon Image

I have drawn and uploaded a picture of a typical emo. Any questions or comments?--ikiroid | (talk) 02:44, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

wicked. youngamerican (talk) 21:15, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

the image is good, but i think we also need a real picture. like somthing thats on a myspace. but the drawing should stay cause a stereotype for emo is tht they are all artistic, so it fits well with that- emopunk

commercial impact

Some information should be included about the commercial impact of the emo image such as how well products designed to appeal to emo kids are selling; the "emo style" has definately entered mainstream fashion by now.

Suggested move

May I suggest that the body of the article be moved to Emo subculture? It seems more appropriate than "Emo (slang)" as this implies an article mostly about the word's etymology.--ikiroid | (talk) 02:22, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Except that:

We can't conclusively prove that there is an emo subculture. The definition of what is and isn't emo is too varied to be as unified as a subculture would be. ("Grunge" wasn't a subculture, and it was significantly more structured in common ideas than "emo".) The media is dying for it to be out there, but there's no uninformity at the moment.
The term "emo" expands beyond any so-called subculture. Additionally, Emo subculture already links here. If such a subculture exists, there's no reason that it can't just be included as a section of this article.
If we move this to "subculture", several items here would have to be removed, as they would no longer apply. So there would probably have to still be an "Emo (slang)" article. And then someone would suggest that the two be merged.

So we should probably save ourselves the time and effort, and just leave the article here. -- ChrisB 04:17, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Yet "Emo (slang)" still doesn't sound like an appropriate name to me.--ikiroid | (talk) 16:23, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with ikiroid, the article is a poor article for the slang word emo. It does not properly discuss the term's usage or pronunciation. It does not mention whether the term is used as a noun, verb, adjective or adverb. Cedars 15:58, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, I added in the parts of speech into the intro.--The i kiroid (talk)^{(Help Me Improve)} 22:38, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Counter Emo

Is there a group that is totally opposite to emo? Ok here is what I mean dark is to colorful as Emo is to (insert slang).

YES, bro's. You know, skin and famous, dickies shorts, off center hat, drive liften F-550's with giant ass metal mullisha stickers on them, they ride imaginary dirtbikes, and eat emos for breakfast they live in the 909 area.

Go-Go? 64.112.183.66 20:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

No, I mean a group that is too happy like Barney. ---Someone else 546

Ummmmmm yeah. Its called NORMAL PEOPLE! Come on emo's are emo because they want attention. Like the class clown but less happy.Join a sports team go outside have what is the word Im looking for..... FUN! I know it may be out of your grasp but emo isn't a feeling its a group. Its like the Jocks the blondes the goths, so im going to say it CHEER UP AND BE NORMAL. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.126.72 (talk • contribs)

First of all, everyone wants some level of attention, so that's a bullshit reason. You can't dismiss an entire subculture just by saying they're all a bunch of attention whores.

Secondly, if emos wouldn't enjoy what they're doing, they would hardly do it. Just because you think sobbing and listening to (no offense, emos) whiny music is boring that doesn't mean they can't find it enjoyable.

Yes, "emo is [..] a group". There's nothing abnormal about that. Prancing around without any worries whatsoever can hardly be considered normal either. Look into a medical dictionary and you'll see that extreme cheerfulness ("mania") is considered just as questionable of a mental condition as extreme unhappiness ("depression"). The former is just more socially accepted. -- Ashmodai 21:28, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I can think of the opposite of Emo music—probably something really upbeat and fluffy like ELO's "Turn to Stone" or Randy and the Rainbows' "Denise, Denise".--The i kiroid (talk parler hablar paroli 说話し parlar) 12:00, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Umm…

Based on what I have read on the history of Zombie.

"removed poor-quality non-encyclopedic amateur art, AGAIN. Please stop putting that nonsense back" (DreamGuy)

Maybe the image here should be removed too.

--FlareNUKE 22:36, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's amateur art, but I created it based on the descriptions of "emo" in the article. All of the other images were removed because they were too incomplete to fit the descriptions of emos in the article. It's very hard to find a fair-use image for the article.--The i kiroid (talk/parler/hablar/paroli/说/話) 03:30, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

A new link should be added

I believe the site emoholic.net should be added to the link section. I personally would appriciate it because that site give a great definition of what emo is and also intends to offer some samples of the music/dress/actions of "emokids" from an outsiders standpoint. Personally, I love the music by have my own style. Personally, I don't think you would know I listen to bright eyes if you looked at me. I am pretty much the antithisis of the commonly defined emokid (head of a fraternity, in student government, and I love sports). I think these people need to be just as represented as the 'emos' so people dont have such a negative take on the whole topic. Any comments - pgrit154@uwsp.edu (143.236.35.199 19:41, 3 April 2006 (UTC))

Never heard of it.--Pro-Lick 16:49, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Is this notable at all or just some site somebody put up to try and make money off the emo fad?--Pro-Lick 17:12, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

For the sake of WP:V, emoholic.net has no Google backlinks and Alexa's traffic ranker has it at 4,156,858 (1 being highest).[1][2] The message above from pgrit154@uwsp.edu just happens to correspond with the owner of the site, Philip Gritzmacher who lives in Wisconsin (uwsp.edu is a University there).--Pro-Lick 19:00, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree with him, I think it is a good link that has helpful info (65.73.75.58 21:56, 14 April 2006 (UTC))

Methinks this anon is a meatpuppet. Only 2 contribs—adding this comment and adding the site as an external link.--The i kiroid (talk parler hablar paroli 说話し parlar) 22:02, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I suspect you're right, or at least an IP sockpuppet. — Saxifrage ✎ 22:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

The Wrist slitters

Isn't Emo also a way of meaning a guy who slits his wrists? If so, why isn't it in the article? 138.130.12.163

It's a common misconception. Altho there maybe emos that do self-harm, it is something consistent across all types of people—especially teens. Emos merely used as a Scapegoat to criticize the popularity of such a thing.--The i kiroid (talk parler hablar paroli 说話し parlar) 19:25, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes and no. The wrist slitting is a stereotype applied to emos (before "Emo" became a widely known, the same stereotype was usually applied to goths) and thus self-mutilation is often considered to be "emo" even if the person doing it otherwise isn't. -- Ashmodai 20:19, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

It's often a blatant stereotype. Often people that appear emo (or are emo) are accused of slitting their wrists. I go to high school, so I know all about this. I think it's just a stupid stereotype. Take this quote from my friend's girlfriend, for example: "I hate emos. It's okay if you slit your wrists, just don't tell everybody about it." That kind of stereotype pisses me off, but I'm sure it's still true in some cases (stereotypes usually don't exist if they aren't true to at least some extent). bob rulz 08:48, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Could it be added to the article that 'Emo's are stereotyped as slitting their wrists, but this is not the case with the majority of emos, infact people that are not emo's slit their wrists and called emo' or something along those lines? It might help people understand that the stereoype doesn't apply to all emo's, and that people who slit their wrists aren't necesarily emo's.

Heck, no, those kind of sterotyoes are VERY wrong. Wrist cutters are called masochists(sp?)

Who cares if it's wrong? Look, we don't censor here on Wikipedia. I believe it should be added. After all, this is an article on the slang definition, and that is one of the stereotypes commonly associated with emo. --em c ! ╬ ^{(t a l k)} 19:25, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Uh, I think the S&M folks would take offense at that, as most of them are not at all suicidal. Wrist cutters are called wrist cutters, just leave it at that. Beyond this, I agree with emc. --treed 21:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

"Who cares if it's wrong?"?!! Would you like it if someone said that everytime someone wrote a wikipedia article? Psshh. I swear... people nowadays... Lordofchaosiori 17:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Classic Joke - does it have merit?

" How many emo kids does it take to change a lightbulb? Only one, but they'd all rather sit in the dark and cry about it! " —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.68.240.152 (talk • contribs)

No merit. --JapanLover 21:54, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

oh come on, thats hilarious! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JonathanMcCormack (talk • contribs) .

Please be relevant. It's a waste of bandwidth for you to state jokes and jibberish on a discussion page. --EMC 04:15, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

what is emo really?

ok im slightly new here and my spelling isnt the greatest so bear this |\|00|}(sorry had to say it^_^) for abit. now i see emo alot on the internet mostly but most are bais from one point of view. the article here says emo the word means "emotional" but what about the people? what makes a person emo and why? there are so many stereotype for any group of people out there but i just want to know in the basic context anybody could understand "what makes a person emo?" and dont say emotional becuse thats not an valid answer thats more of a brush off. oh yes and lets have some maturity people im not trying to start a flame war i just want to get my facts right here ok?

Pyrokingdragon 20:36, 14 April 2006 (UTC)pyrokingdragon

The article is mostly saying that it's really hard to pin down, so I doubt it will be answering the question definitively any time soon. You might like the pages linked in the External links section. — Saxifrage ✎ 22:20, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

There really is no true definition of emo. It's all in the eye of the beholder. The fashion sense is usually pretty obvious, but whether a person is actually emo or not is all in the eye of the beholder. I think that this article gives a pretty good description of what's "generally" considered emo, but for the most part the definition of emo is muddled by many different points of views. bob rulz 08:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, most of the kids who i hang around with that listen to real emo(sorry to break all the scene kid's hearts, but Fall Out Boy and Dashboard Confessional aren't emo) never saw emo as a style and the kids who dress up like that are usually called scene.----SOAD_ROCKS

Emo is more how you would describe a group of people(jock, blondes etc.).Usually people in this "group" are depressed BUT not always. The fashion worn by this "group" usually consits of ripped jeans and pins with bands on them and dark clothes. Im NOT sayin that all people who wear ripped jeans are emo, but thats what they usually wear. Usually the music this "group" listens to is either scream-o music or songs about broken relationships. Cutting youself is a sterotype among emo's but in SOME cases cutting occurs. In my veiw emo is kinda a turn on the old punk scene of the 80's and goth scene of the 90's.

Emo similarities to Mimes?

I would like to request a mention of the large quantity of comparisons that can be made between stereotypical "emo's" and the original/stereotypical mime. Although most surely coincidental, the volume of similarities made me wonder if there is any reason for the links between the two. Some more sketchy than others, similarities include:- Fitted, black trousers (mainly leggins for mimes and drainpipes for "emo's"). ----Horizontal striped,fitted, long sleeve tops. Mainly black in both groups.---- The tear is a feature of many mime's make up. This could be likened to the sad,depressed feelings of "emo's". ----Extroverted and dont talk. ----Use of make up. ----And there may be more. (note: as seen from previous discussions there is much debate on what an emo actually is. my view of an "emo" is a stereotypical version and my stereotype may differ from other people's view.)

I honestly don't see the pertinence of that. Taking that the post wasn't signed, I'll gladly consider this input voided. Pantomime is a performance art, while emo isn't: nice try. --EMC 00:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Dude, get a sense of humor, i laughed while reading that, i doubt it was meant to be taken seriously.----SOAD_ROCKS

Hahaha that was funny. Lordofchaosiori 17:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Dashboard Confessional?

You say something about dashboard confessional emphasizing a more personal style of emo, the only problem with that is DASHBOARD CONFESSIONAL AIN'T EMO. Please remove offending statements and paragraphs.----SOAD_ROCKS

No. Again: understand that the post above wasn't signed, and it should be voided as it is nonchalant and immaterial input. If that part of the article offends you: don't expect an apology just because you are offended when a band that you enjoy is classified as "Emo". Please wake up and smell the coffee. You would honestly be surprised as to how many times we get this on here, and how erroneous your statement, and statements like it, are. --EMC 02:23, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm offended they're classified emo, because well, they aren't. It's emotionally driven HARDCORE punk rock. I enjoy Dashboard Confessional, and i like emo, but Dashboard Confessional isn't emo. Antioch Arrow=Emo, Dashboard Confessional=Indie Pop Punk. Also, emo isn't a form of style, the kids who do that are called SCENE.----SOAD_ROCKS

REMOVE OFFENDING STATEMENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!---SOAD_ROCKS

Again: no. --EMC 00:52, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

The emo style being emphasized by bands? Give me an example of this, I have never heard any band going, "You all should dress like us and call yorselves emo." When has any band advocated a more "personal" style of emo?----SOAD_ROCKS

They don't come out and say "You should all dress like us and call yourselves 'emo'", no. "Emo" was not exactly created by the music artists, and despite what you "think", the facts are that bands do have subtle characteristic influence on its listeners. It's common sense that the fans would soon start to follow the trend of their most favored artists. Also considering you don't know anything about this topic, I'll say it again: no. --EMC 23:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

NPOV tag

This article is very very very bias, and I'm putting a non-pov tag on it. Someone with lots of experience (and time) needs to clean this up.

Angrygoatface 23:39, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Simply adding an NPOV tag because you disagree with content is not acceptable. Adding the tag requires a discussion of what content is POV or how the article should be improved. We can't read your mind, and can't defend what's in the article if you can't specifically explain what's wrong with it. -- ChrisB 00:11, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

As wonky as this article is, I agree with ChrisB. Additionally, Music Genre articles (especially those related to the Indie, Emo, Punk, and Gothic Subcultures) are usually slightly POV because there are very vague lines when it comes to music. To Spin, emo is a good thing. Pitchfork Media, to the best of my knowledge, considers the entire genre Trite and Maudlin (or whatever new word they pulled out of their thesaurus this week). Rolling Stone can't classify any genre/movement without at least 3 of the following tags added on; post, punk, core, synth, revival, indie. Depending on who you like (I hate all three of the above AMG all the way) you will be more or less likely to classify to different styles.

I agree with the NPOV tag. This article has been written from a pro-emo perspective. This article must be rewritten to display both sides of the argument. -~~

Gay Friendly???

Though the original emo scenes were not exclusionary, the modern "emo" scene has developed into a "gay friendly" scene. Though it's unclear whether it's related to the diminished "macho" elements of emo music or the "gay friendly" nature of the scene, it has become commonplace for detractors to use "emo" in combination with popular discriminatory gay slurs, such as "emo fag". What are they saying? The scene is "gay friendly", so some "emo" people are gay and that's why people call them "emo fags"? Sounds kinda dumb to me. I think this should be re-written or deleted. Your thoughts?

No that's not it at all. Do you even understand what that section of the article says? --EMC 00:54, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

No. The article is saying that the Emo culture is OK with other people being gay, including themselves, which is an oversimplification, like saying all mexicans like beans, but that's what the article is saying. Someone could clean that up. (I'm mexican and I don't like beans by the way haha.) Lordofchaosiori 17:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Emo Slang vs. Emo Music

It's apparent when reading the rest of this talk page that you guys are focusing on the slang term of "emo", with clothing style and such, and not the music term. This, though, isn't too apparent in the artical, and I think there should be a much heavier line drawn in the artical to divide the two definitions appart. Your thoughts? Underwater 01:11, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

It is very apparent in the article, actually. The style evolved because of the music, and vice-versa. Shedding a little light on the Emo (music) actually seemes very necessary. --EMC 00:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

The movement is called scene, since when has there been an emo "movement"?

I was using the term "movement" interchangably with "scene" mostly because of the negative connotations of the word, but I guess calling it "movement" is a bit too much, eh? Underwater 23:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

The article is called Emo (slang). This could not be any more apparent. --Switch 15:03, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmm.... I'm having a hard time trying to put what I'm trying to say into words...

Okay, let's say there's a guy who listens to absolutely nothing but so-called "emo" music. But he, in no way, reflects the style of an "emo kid". Then let's say there's some kid who whines and wears girl pants and has scene hair and cuts himself. But he doesn't listen to emo music. So who's more emo than the other?

Emo kids stemmed from Emo music and listen to it, but that's basically where the corolations stop. Listening to emo music does not nessisarily mean your emo. Get what I'm saying? I sure hope so. Underwater 23:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, exactly. That's why there are two articles, one for Emo (slang) and one for Emo (music). One is about the music, the other (this one) is about the slang term. To answer your question, in the sense of this article, the second kid is more "emo". --Switch 08:05, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Offensive to Self Harmers

I feel that there should be a little bit more in the area of the stereotypical emo = self harmer.

I cut myself, yet I am not emo. My best friend is emo, yet doesn't cut herself. It insults both of us, and I know many others.

So, could there be a little more in the article about how the two aren't the same? Every person I've seen that makes fun of emos think that emos cut. It's driving me (and my support group) up the wall!

I know some emos cut. But, not every single one.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.152.67.7 (talk • contribs)

Look at the bottom of the section "Fashion and culture:"

There is also a common stereotype that associates "emo" with self-harm, most notably wrist slashing, mainly due to the song lyrics of popular bands conforming to the image of emo in the public eye, which often speak of suicide.

Isn't that enough? Tell us what you think should be added. It would help.--The i kiroid (talk)^{(Help Me Improve)} 21:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking something a bit more specific. While it says it's a stereotype, would it be okay to have it say it's rather offensive to both groups? 70.152.67.7 23:08, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

That all depends on whether the emo hates being associated with the self-harmer or vice-versa.--The i kiroid (talk)^{(Help Me Improve)} 23:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I know quite a few people who consider themselves emo that do not cut, and do not like people saying they do. 70.152.67.7 23:13, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

How about now?--The i kiroid (talk)^{(Help Me Improve)} 01:50, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I understand that we're already treading on original research in this article, but there can't possibly be any source available that supports a statement of "self-harmers don't like to be called emo". I tried to put back more or less what was in the article a couple of months ago to expand on the idea that emo and self-harm are not associated. (I have no idea why it was removed in the first place.) -- ChrisB 03:31, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. 70.152.67.7 19:00, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Article Self-Referencing

ChrisB deleted both of the two lines I added, the second containing a link to this talk page. His comment was "referencing a wiki talk page is not encyclopedic." While I'm not sure if I agree with this statement, after thinking about it, I agree that it was misplaced. I'm adding the link to the "See Also" section. I think it's an educational demonstration of ambiguity of the term, and that's what we're here for. If ChrisB or anybody thinks this is inappropriate, I'd request they show where it's implied so in the rules before removing it. I'm also re-adding the first line I previously added, since no justification was given for its removal. --MQDuck

It's removable because it's original research. It also violates WP:V and WP:RS. A Wiki talk page violates both of those as well, granted that a Talk page is not a verifiable, reliable primary source. Need I go on? -- ChrisB 19:34, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Newspaper source

Are we allowed to use newspaper articles for sources on wikipedia? This sunday, the Chicago Tribune recently published an article about emos called "Finding emo" and I was wondering if I could reference it.--The i kiroid (talk)^{(Help Me Improve)} 18:28, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure, it's allowed. But there's something about that article that bothers me. It strikes me as if the journalist was given an assignment to cover "emo", then did Internet searches to start her research. It strikes me as slightly tabloid-ish, painting caricatures that may or may not be true. (Especially using a 12-year-old as an expert on all things "emo".) I couldn't find her "Emo Tim" on Myspace, and her discription of it sounds like it's a joke (if it exists).

If it were me, I would only include content from that article by specifically starting with, "In a May 2006 article for the Chicago Tribune, journalist Barbara Mahany claimed that..." -- ChrisB 22:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

People who aren't members of the Chicago Tribune can't view the article online. 71.212.2.68 03:14, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

ATTENTION

I'm personally sick of people, especially non-registered users, crying about how their favored bands (ex. "MCR", "Fallout Boy", "Dashboard Confessional") are not emo, and then back up their statements with absolutely nothing and/or nothing but personal opinion. It is a waste of space on Wikipedia and a waste of energy for other users who feel obligated to respond to such comments/proposals.

To those who this statement directly relates to: if the idea of one of your favored bands being considered "emo" personally offends you, that's your own quandary. Now, I don't have a problem with objections such as these, but I do have a problem with these objections when they are based on personal opinion, and at often times, nothing at all. If you have intelligible, supported, and logical suggestions or proposals, feel free to share them. If not, kindly leave your thoughts to yourself so those who wish to edit this article successfully can do so without hiatus. This goes for all people who wish to share their input on this edit page, for I've realized that this edit page is full of crap that is very unconstructive and only mars this edit page. It's this kind of behavior that makes pages like this under the category of "Wikipedia controversial topics". --EMC 23:42, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

TRUE!!!!!!

Well I'm emo and I know emo music, (I'm not saying I'm a source), and almost all other emo people agree with me that Dashboard Confessional is not Emo. But you're right, people should back up their statements with something. Lordofchaosiori 17:49, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

vandalism

i vandalised but reverted it so plz dont block me.--65.79.36.66 15:50, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

doesnt Really State....

FIRST: Stop Cutting Yourself and Get in the Game!

SECOND: Doesnt really state emo Emotions NeoExelor Neo Exelor

Lock/Protect page from edits?

I've come across a bunch of small vandalism edits people have done, and tried fixing them. They always seem to com eback and are along the lines of "so-and-so is a (sic) emo fag". Can we temporarily block the page from edits to stop these immature edits? FyreNWater 06:45, 27 May 2006

I agree with that proposal. --EMC 23:24, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Self Harm

In the article it states 'There is also a common stereotype that associates "emo" with self-harm, most notably cutting ... there is no evidence of any correlation between "emo" and self-harm.' I find, in my personal expirience that that statement is a blatant lie. I know plenty of people that call themselves 'emo' and a good 90% practice or have practiced, open self harm. I have also noticed that a lot of emos are attention whores. I'd like a second to add this to the article. On a last note, I also think that the article is WAY too biased in favor of emos. The fact is most emo people have no problems WHATSOEVER and simply make them to feel special. THE END -- PAX -- Schafer

I have to say the phrase "there is no evidence of any correlation between "emo" and self-harm." sounds rather dubious, as I don't know, but I doubt a good number of scientific studies have been done to ascertain the relationship between "emo" trends and self-harm. If they haven't, then there's no evidence either way. 81.154.232.187 18:36, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

yeh, I got rid of that statement. I think this article is really trying way too hard to be unbiased. The fact of the matter is that emos are widely criticized and they didn't develop the self harm stereotype for no reason. This cultural view needs to be acknowledged much more in the article. Satchfan 13:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Removing the statement is disingenuous. There is no direct correlation. It's the same thing as when people used to say that all Goth kids cut themselves. It wasn't true, either. A lot of people follow emo trends and listen to emo music and don't cut themselves. A lot of cutters have nothing to do with "emo". Do the members of Emo bands cut themselves? So how is there a correlation?

And, remember, "I know plenty of people that call themselves 'emo' and a good 90% practice or have practiced, open self harm" is original research and cannot be used as supporting evidence in the article. -- ChrisB 17:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

If there were no evidence, the stereotype wouldn't exist. Just because its generalizing doens't mean it doesn't happen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Satchfan (talk • contribs) 02:19, 20 June 2006

That's absurd. If it happens, we need a direct source that says so. If 5% of a population does something, and it becomes a stereotype, it doesn't mean that the other 95% are doing it as well. I'm not going to claim that those percentages are factual, but you get the point. There is no evidence that a substantial element of "emo" folks are cutting themselves.

There are thousands of "emo" music fans who wear the clothes and follow the trends. But there is NO EVIDENCE that a substantial element of that population cuts. Seriously, everybody who buys a Hawthorne Heights record and wears long bangs and eyeliner cuts? What exactly are you claiming? -- ChrisB 03:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Vans

Vans are a preferable shoe brand worn by those who fit into the "emo" bracket, thus, the shoe brand has, as of recently, become synonymous with the emo trend. Of course, the same can be said for "skaters" and shoes such as Vans. --EMC Shizzle Dizzle 00:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

No one who I know who fits into the "emo" catagory would ever touch a pair of vans much less wear them. If you can show me some type of proof that they are emo related then and only then I will beleve you. Until then I will edit the page Once Agian since you keep adding this and won't consider the point of view I have made.

It's evident that you're putting your efforts on nothing but opinion. Perhaps you need to read this post. We could care less about the "emo" people you know and what shoes they would not touch; Vans are a blatant trait of emo. What, do you think we pulled this out of the sky and put it into the article? --EMC Shizzle Dizzle 00:41, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok show me proof because so far you have none and I will not let you use this article to bring down a respected company's reputation.

Gladly:

"2) The style of clothing stereotypically worn by fans of emo music. This consists of, in general: tight band t-shirts or vintage 80's t-shirts, longer (messy) hair often died black, tight (usual girl's) pants, shoes by Vans or Converse, messenger bags, anything checkered (usually black-and-white or black-and-pink), studded belts, thick-framed glasses, neckties, etc.

(Note: girl emo kids often cut their hair short in the back and angled down in the front, less often died black)" - Urban Dictionary.com

"The look (for guys): shaggy hair, tight pants, vintage 80's tshirt, vans (shoes),tote bag swung around their waist with buttons and safety pins, thick framed glasses." - Urban Dictionary.com

Of course, these are not facts; these are simply examples that represent my previous statement that it's a widely recognized trait of "emo" to wear Vans style shoes. If the fact that those considered "emo" wear Vans shoes offends you (hence your claim that this brings down a respectable company, which is not my intent at all), then that's your own problem, which again, you need to refer to this post.

Secondly, show me proof that they aren't. You say it as though it's written in stone that it is not part of the "emo" trend.. --EMC Shizzle Dizzle 00:56, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Well For all we know you could have in fact wrote those. Second I do not need proof that vans are not emo, because there is no valide evidince that they are. It's like saying that The center of the moon is made out of cheese. We have no proof that it is or isn't since we have never been to the center of the moon. does that mean that it is. No. Case closed!

"For all we know you could have in fact wrote those." That makes no sense what-so-ever. It lists the date that each of those posts were written and by whom, which I assure you are not me. Secondly, the suggestion that you do not need proof is void because again, you are basing this on nothing but personal opinion (that's the last time I am pointing that out). I gladly provided links to represent what this article already stated before you deleted the text. Thirdly, there is no contrast between the center of the moon and this topic; there just isn't. We know that the center of the moon is not made out of cheese. The proposition that "we've never been there, so we don't know" it completely stupid. Again: you say it as though it is written in stone. Of course there's no valid evidence that they are, because this article did not state "emo people wear Vans". It stated that Vans are commonly warn by "emo" people, thusly, it is considered one of the more obvious traits of this trend. --EMC Shizzle Dizzle 01:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

As your credibility slowly slips down the septic tank as evident in these recent vandalism warning of yours, I make it noted that anything you suggest will not be considered a valid suggestion from this point on. Thank you for playing! --EMC Shizzle Dizzle 01:22, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

This is an article on a slang term. Slang terms are defined by popular usage, and UrbanDictionary is the perfect place to find the popular usage. If Vans are associated with emo popularly, then that belongs in the article. --Switch 15:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

National Emo Kid Beatdown Day

At the very least there should be a link to National Emo Kid Beatdown Day from this article.--God Ω War 19:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/ceilede/_emoday1eq.jpg)

No not really. We only put links to articles that provide a better understanding of the definition of emo or articles that contrast or are clearly evident that they are relevant to "emo". You wouldn't link an anti-Semetic Holiday to the Jew article, would you? Use your brain, please. --em c ! ╬

Goths again...

This article needs to mention the similarities between goths and emos. It would provide a better understanding of emos quicker. DarkSideOfTheSpoon 03:28, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Ehhh...no. check this out and this out too. --em c ! ╬ ^{(t a l k)} 19:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Emo has nothing to do with goth other than that they are both musically derived from punk (goth from early punk, emo from hardcore). The fact that the term "emo" has come to partially replace the term "goth" as used by major media (i.e., satanic depressed kids who listen to Marilyn Manson and nothing to do with goth) should be mentioned though. --Switch 01:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

ChrisB

ChrisB, is there some kind of compromise reachable regarding the self harm issue? Perhaps the statement could be rephrased; perhaps change to "no subtantial evidence" or similar? Satchfan 03:31, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I dunno. Maybe something like: "However, apart from the anecdotal, there is no significant evidence of any correlation between emo and self-harm."? -- ChrisB 07:30, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

That works for me. Satchfan 08:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Social scene

The article covers too little of the social scene associated with emo.

Some emo article should fully describe the typical traits of emo fans or people from the "emo" culture. It should also include how the stereotypes are related to the real "emo" scene.

I have noticed the conspicous emergence of this group in this year, distinguished primarily by clothing and behaviour. Many of my friends have derided what they consider the typical emo characteristics, and thereby brought these to my attention before I had witnessed them independently. Many people I have seen strongly fit these characteristics, thus verifying many of those impressions.

This article and other emo articles, however, inadequately cover these characteristics.

The song-parody "I must be Emo" by Hollywood Undead lists many of the characteristics outsiders associate with emos.

Rintrah 12:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, great! So go ahead and edit the artical and add in all the extra information you know! Don't worry about making mistakes... we'll clean up any rough parts afterwards. Underwater 23:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

But before you do that, you may want to read this. -- ChrisB 23:45, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Haha, this whole article is original research! But since it can be verified by empirical evidence, it's all a moot point. I doubt Jimbo would office this article over its lack of sources, because none really exist. Any articles about emos in print or on the internet are almost always sourceless biased BS.--The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 01:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

True, but we can certainly do better than "I've seen people doing this, so let's add it to the article." In his wording: "any of my friends have derided what they consider". That doesn't work for Wikipedia. -- ChrisB 05:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I gotta go with ChrisB on this one. I don't mean to denounce anybody else's efforts or status on Wikipedia, but Chris has been one of the more valued individuals who have worked on this article for quite some time now, and even putting that aside, he's absolutely correct. --em c ! ╬ ^{(t a l k)} 00:10, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

paragraph doesn't belong here.

"Though the original emo scenes were not exclusionary, the modern "emo" scene has developed into a "gay friendly" scene. Though it's unclear whether it's related to the diminished "macho" elements of emo music or the "gay friendly" nature of the scene, it has become commonplace for detractors to use "emo" in combination with popular discriminatory gay slurs, such as "emo fag"."

This paragraph is completely POV. Either someone reword it, or it should be deleted from this article. dposse 21:43, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Emo Vs. Preps

from what iv observed, these two dont mix very well...... should mention somthin about this

WTF?

Neither of your links have reliability, and this whole article should fall under original research

stupid bullshit

The whole thing. I removed some unnecessary, unfunny junk from paragraph 1.

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