Talk:Elijah Muhammad

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[edit] court case?

What does this Supreme Court case with Muhammad Ali having anything to do with Elijah Muhammad?

[edit] death?

"Muhammad was succeeded following his apparent death by his son Warith Deen Muhammad". Why apparent death? Is there anyone who says he didn't die? User:Paul Barlow 14:10, 18 June, 2005 (UTC)

I think Louis Farrakhan said that E.M. and Fard were taken aboard a spacecraft.

Wow. How - likely. Thanks, anyway. At least I have some idea now why this was written. Paul B 23:11, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The spacecraft is mentioned in the Holy Bible, in the Book of Ezekiel (Ezekiel 1:15-21, Ezekiel 10:2-17)

Chapter 1:http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%201;&version=50; Chapter 10:http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=33&chapter=10&version=50

To answer the question directly: "is there anyone who says he didn't die," Brother Minister Jabril Muhammad has written a book titled: "Is it possible that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad is Still Physically Alive?", in which Bro. Minister Jabril Muhammad brings up evidence and experiences that support the belief that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad IS still alive.

Also, when listening to Brother Minister Louis Farrakhan speak on the Honorable Elijah Muhammad's 'death', Bro. Farrakhan consistently says "When the Honorable Elijah Muhammad DEPARTED FROM US".... Rag-time4 17:37, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] affected speech?

In his movie "Malcolm X", Spike Lee portrayed Elija Muhammad as speaking with an accent that sounds like a mixture of the rural U.S. South with Northern India. Yet the article clearly states that E. Muhammad was born in Georgia. Was this accent and speech pattern recorded by others? If he indeed spoke as portrayed in the film, was this eccentric speech pattern considered to have been deliberately affected by E. Muhammed to give himself an air of divine authority to his listeners, or is there another explanation, such as a speech impediment? User:Larry Siden 1:45, 6 July, 2005 (EDT)

The Honorable Elijah Muhammad famously had what is commonly referred to as a "speech impediment". During public speaking sessions, he sometimes would ask listeners to "have patience with me" as he would say "when I got to the school house, the doors were closed." The Honorable Elijah Muhammad never made it past the third grade in the white man's school system, so his speech pattern can be difficult to understand if you do not listen to him with great love and and great focus.
I don't believe his speech pattern gives him an air of divine authority. Quite the contrary, I think his speech pattern is one of ultimate humility. His speech pattern represents the poor black people from which he came, not those who are well educated by the white man's school system.
The Honorable Elijah Muhammad's speech pattern was certainly recorded, as video and audio recordings are rather widely available. For the most official source, you can order directly from the Nation of Islam, here: http://store.finalcall.com/hem_cat/default.htm
I would recommend "The theology of time" pts 1-5. This will give you not only the Honorable Elijah Muhammad's speech pattern but also these will expose you to the theology that he teaches us.
In fact, the reason that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad selected Minister Louis Farrakhan to be his National Representative (a post Minister Louis Farrakhan still holds), is that Brother Minister Louis Farrakhan has a clear voice, one that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad felt would be able to reach those who the Honorable Elijah Muhammad himself was unable to reach due to his speech pattern.

Rag-time4 17:50, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This articel is in horrid NPOV form

the things sounds like a screed for NOI membership I've cleaned up a bit of it. There is much more work to do.

Please be more careful in your work. A total re-write with a strong POV does not help the article. Please read our core policy, NPOV. -Willmcw 01:09, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

This is pretty highly biased. The NOI, despite their undeniably racist doctrines, were NOT comparable to the Ku Klux Klan.

Why not? Comparable does not mean the same as identical. Paul B 23:08, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The comparison to the KKK is out of place, especially refering to his "rejection" of KKK policies, as if he considered adopting them. Using the term implies that the Nation of Islam was a Italic textwhiteItalic text supremecist group (and one that broke off from the KKK), which is clearly not the case. Nor is there any speculation that I know of that Elijah Muhammad modeled his organization after the KKK in any way. I plan on removing the reference. Also, someone should add something about the extra-marital affairs, which were pivotal in Malcolm X leaving the organization and an important part of both the Nation of Islam history and (obviously) Mr. Muhammad's personal life. Dzzycicero 18:06, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Also I can find no referrence to Fard being deported (Marcus Garvey, who influenced EM, was deported in 1927). Could someone verify any sources stating that Fard was in fact deported? Dzzycicero 18:17, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


I'm glad I'm not the only one that finds this article to be a "horrid" violation of NPOV. It practically canonizes Mohammed. Whoever included Mohammad's sexual relations with young girls does not appear to have been the original article. Ditto the relationship between the American Nazi Party and the Nation of Islam. I can't be sure about that the Nation of Islam preaches hatred of Europeans, but it certain says some seriously goofy stuff about them.

The idea that so-called "whites" were "created" by an evil wizard...? That's not just goofy, that's nuts. Whoever compared it to Scientology is probably pretty close to the mark. One has to wonder if Hubbard wasn't inspired by this when he concocted scientology with the evil "Galatic Emperor" Zenu and the thirteen billion alien souls imprisoned in 7/11s, er, volcanos...

Seriously, if any European-American public figure made a similar assertion about African-Americans he would rightly be treated with contempt and ridicule. Yet, during the 400,000 Man March sponsered by the NOI, the press was mum about it. Only Rush Limbaugh, and other conservatives, brought up the fact that this racist trash was being distributed to the African-American men attending the 400,000 Man March.

And "Calypso Louie" Farrakhan is an out and out anti-semite. I have seen the speech where he calls Judaim as "a gutter religion" (that's a verbatim quote). Was Mohammad similarly anti-semitic? It would be good to know whether this disgusting form of racism was his or if Farrakhan introduced it.

This article is ridiculously biased and needs a complete rewrite by someone neither sympathetic nor antipathetic to the Nation of Islam. Given the deviations from orthodox Islamic doctrine--whether Sunnite or Shi'ite--the NOI would be considered heretics in Christian terms. In Saudi Arabia, it's hard to believe this group wouldn't be suppressed by the Wahabbist state.

But that's not really the point. The point is, this article does not provide a POV-free account of Mohammad's life, nor one account of the NOI.

The sad part is that the NOI does do good work. They've helped many to abandon lives of crime, drug abuse, sexual promiscuity. It's unfortunate that it's coupled with a goofy, racist doctrine. Especially since Farrakhan is such a compelling speaker, despite the hate he preaches.

This is one of the worst articles on wikipedia. It should be removed until it can be completely rewritten. Perhaps a student of African-American history could be recruited to the job? Something needs to be done because this is way, way, way below the quality standards, however much they are followed in the breach generally.

And I agree, the anonymous postings have got to go. Unsigned posts should be removed. People who don't have the stones to put their names to their words don't deserve to be read.

PainMan 02:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Oh, good god, what absurd bias

Multiple references to white "racism" but lovable Elijah -- who argued that Whites were created by an evil mad scientist -- is not himself racist.

This is one of the worst articles I've read on wikipedia. Is there some rule that Whites are to be targeted for racist rants here?

The article certainly adopts a non-judgemental tone, but it states clearly that the NOI's doctrines were as racist as the Klan's. Paul B

That they (the NOI) were by definition racist is indisputable, and that Elijah M taught a racist doctrine is also indisputable, but there is really no reason to compare them to the Klan. As an organization they have more in common with Scientology (or with another racism based religion I can't think of any), they weren't known for participating in lynchings or killings of whites. The Klan comparison is just as off topic as it would be to mention Henry Ford here because he was also anti-Semetic.

For the record, I don't like it when white people are held to a higher historical standard than the rest, like blasting Hernando Cortez but praising Ghenghis Khan for the same thing. But that wasn't the case, IMO, at least with the Klan thing (Its different than mentioning his relationship with the American Nazi Party and Rockwell because the Nazi thing is about an actual relationship between the two groups.) Dzzycicero 07:21, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, I was defending the article as it then was against the anonymous comment above. Secondly, I clearly referred to his doctrines not his actions. Paul B 08:36, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Both his doctrines and actions were racist. The main reason I didn't like the Klan reference was that it stated that Muhammed 'broke' with the Klan's teachings, or something to that effect, implying that he had been previously aligned with them. The NOI, given its religous nature and seperatist stance, isn't really a mirror image of the Klan either. User: Dzzycicero

A statement can only be racist if it is not true. If there is truth in it then saying that whites came from blacks isn't a racist statement. Honestly the scientist that experimented with genetics was a black man. The nature of the whites was devilish but it came from the black men. So we really take blame for creating you when you think about it. Then we turnt our backs on you. That's not racist, plus you can scientifically prove that blacks were first.

Although the first humans did come from Africa, there is no scientific evidence to prove that Yakub and his genetic engineering occured. This is a belief of the NOI and should be included, but it is not objectively a fact. It may be fair to compare the NOI to the Klan, but it must be made clear that they are no branches of the same organizations, but merely to organizations promoting the superiority of their respective races. Also, I would contend that it is possible for a true statement to be racist, and that while some members of the Nation truly belief white people to be devils created to plague the world, this accusation can certainly be considered racist. It is true that the 9-11 hijackers were Muslim Arabs, but it is racist to therefore call all Arab Muslims terrorists, or to denigrate those men's religion. Also, is Genghis Khan really getting off so easy? His name is synonymous with barbarism and terror. Cortez is still regarded as a hero in Spain and among some Latin Americans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.175.13 (talk) 15:18, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

From my understanding a racist statment isn't true, that;s being prejudice. Pre judging, but whites as a nation have caused bloodshed and brought death to every land that they've been to and has made it a hell on earth for the inhabitants there. So whites arn't devils theyu are satans, because satans have wickedness that affects others while devils have wickedness that affects themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.73.110.249 (talk) 23:34, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Problems with this article

1. It contains no discussion of Muhammad's extra-marital affairs, their effect on Nation of Islam membership, and on his relationship with Malcolm X

2. The bizarre portrayal of his falling out with Malcolm X as a "father/son" spat. He gave orders to have Malcolm X killed, for god's sake. (Though it is unknown if the assassins who later killed Malcolm were there on NOI orders)

3. No discussion of his health problems or retreat to Arizona for the last fifteen (?) years of his life.

4. Still feels POV. Too much soft "great inspirational leader" stuff, not enough hard biographical facts. Uucp 16:50, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad NEVER gave orders to have Malcolm X killed. If he did, where is the evidence to support this claim? Good luck finding it, it doesn't exist.
In fact, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad clearly has taught all followers against the carrying of any weaponry.

Rag-time4 17:56, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Whether or not he ordered Malcolm X's assassination, T.H.E.M. certainly did order members of the NOI to follow Malcolm when he went to Los Angeles, and the Fruit of Islam men were at that time given training in martial arts and the handling of weapons. Malcolm X discusses their capabilities in his autobiography, and this is supported by independant observation. However, Malcolm himself seems to have believed that the Nation was harassing him but that T.H.E.M. was NOT behind the assassination attempt. Nonetheless, the issue should certainly be mentioned here, especially considering the contempt shown in some of The Honorable Elijah Muhammed's speeches about Malcolm's assassination. It is also UNTRUE that the split between the two was over Malcom "rebelling"; many sources including Malcom's autobiography, personal notes, and conversations with Muhammed Ali indicate that T.H.E.M. forced Malcom out of the Nation because he feared his growing influence. Malcolm never wanted to leave the Nation of Islam, but was anathematized by Elijah Muhammed out of jealousy and because of the blow to E.M.'s credibility caused by his sex scandal. I only know about this from Malcom's perspective, but an unbiased editor needs to correct this article, which takes a completely Nation of Islam line on the subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.175.13 (talk) 15:27, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Anyone who trained in the handling of weapons was by their own will because The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad doesn't let his followers carry so much as a pen knife —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.205.99.222 (talk) 16:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Revert to orignal article

rv to Graft. Wikipedia is not a propaganda forum - this is now a stub article. Please expand Justice23 03:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

That's completely out of line. A lot of people have been working on this article and it reflects a great deal of research and sophisticated thought about Muhammad and his legacy. If you have problems with it, edits are welcome but you are not right to blank it out. I have reverted it. Uucp 03:49, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Save it

My parents had the chance to meet the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. He was not the way any of you portrayed him. Just hate to see somebody on top without trying to be bring him down. Damn hypocrites.

Yes, because meeting someone once tells you more about that person than all of their writings, speeches and, most importantly, actions. GW Bush is by many accounts a charming and gracious dinner host. His speeches and actions? They tell a different story. Which isn't to say both men might be (or may have been) perfectly delightful social acquaintances - their fitness as leaders is in question because of their doubtful righteousness and indignant denial in the face of their own hypocrisy. This is not to say that Elijah Muhammad didn't provide a focus and needed venue for a cultural catharsis. However, he is certainly not unassailable. All aspects of his character and dealings should be explored for an Encyclopedia article. And, please sign your posts. strike71 (talk) 08:48, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Elijah Muhammed was a gifted man who brought hope to a lot of black people who had been left behind by the middle-class civil rights leaders. He brought hope and morality to the prisons, and confidence and discipline to the cities.

And Mussolini made sure the trains ran on time. Didn't mean he wasn't a fascist. A gifted fascist, but a fascist nonetheless. Unlike Mussolini, Elijah Muhammed focused his energy on a cultural revolution, rather than a political one. But his sexual exploitation of the young women and girls who trusted him says a lot about his true feelings about the superiority of black people. It sounds to me like women aren't included in his black nation, except as chattel. His betrayal of their trust (as well as Malcolm X) has to be included in the article. strike71 (talk) 08:48, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

He also failed to practice what he preached in terms of sexual morality, and he did a real disservice to his friend Malcolm X, who was forced out of the Nation of Islam which he had done so much for. Malcolm's embrace of traditional Islam and his increasing focus on pride rather than hate could have revitalized the Nation, but Elijah Muhammed worked against his formed protege, and between them their pride and jealousy squandered a lot of the movement's potential. This has to be shown in the article, and Elijah Muhammed has always been controversial. If you can add your own portrayal and understanding of the man, please do; it will make the article more full and give more people voices. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.175.13 (talk) 15:38, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad was married to those women and He said no sex outside of marriage, so he violated nothing being that he was married to the women. Malcolms embrace to so called "orthodox Islam" was probably to make The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad jealous but Malcolm sent letters trying to get reinstated into The Nation but The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad wanted him to stay out a little while longer but Malcolm gave up and got killed by the government before he could come back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.73.110.249 (talk) 23:39, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Birth

I lived in Sandersville for about 5 years. The correct location of Elijah's birth is Linton, GA, about 15 minutes outside of Sandersville.

[edit] Extra marital affairs

It is known that he had extra marital affairs and fathered illegitimate children, and were one of the reasons for Malcolm X's divergence from NOI. Please someone include them in this article, it is important and relavent information, and is essential to provide a balanced article. Adamshappy 16:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Scratch that, he had no extra marital affairs, he had other wives. He took care of these wives and the children and the children were not illigitamate, otherwise Ishmail is an illigitamate son of Abraham, but look at the Beauty and Righteousness of Abraham

His wife was not aware he was having an affair with his secutaries, again as described in malcolm X's autobiography. Im sure if he was a polygamist and made this widely known, malcolm X would not have left the movement as he describes losing faith in elijah when discovering about the affairs, indicating that they were secret and that elijah was not married to these women. He also taught monogamy, so this goes against his own teachings. If he WERE (which I believe he was not) a polygamist, it should still be mentioned in the article. Adamshappy 16:52, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] daniel pipes' commentary

a visit to pipes' website shows him to be nothing more than a conservative firebrand, and his opinionated indictment of muhammad is out of place here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.51.53.87 (talk) 07:23, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Who is the Messiah?

This External link needs to be removed. It has no bearing on the article and seems to be some kind of propaganda. I have removed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.171.246.236 (talk) 16:20, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] His real name.....

His real name is Robert Poole but later changed it to Elijah Muhammad

http://africawithin.com/bios/elijah_muhammad.htm http://www.gale.cengage.com/pdf/scguides/muslim/musmosqueintro.pdf http://www.encyclopedia.com/beta/doc/1G2-3404704628.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cooolway (talk • contribs) 04:02, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] His real name.....

His real name is Robert Poole but later changed it to Elijah Muhammad

http://africawithin.com/bios/elijah_muhammad.htm http://www.gale.cengage.com/pdf/scguides/muslim/musmosqueintro.pdf http://www.encyclopedia.com/beta/doc/1G2-3404704628.html Lincoln, The Black Muslims in Amerca, p. 257 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cooolway (talk • contribs) 04:31, 2 June 2008 (UTC)